Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

Habs Halifax

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They never are. I think it's something like 70% of them changes (league-wide) by November. I read some articles about that last season.

But MSL focusing on duos probably means some lines will look quite similar all season barring injuries.

Yup. Fun to guess and talk about things we can try as fans but the line-ups are just not that narrowed down for the Habs. Maybe in a few years, there is more stability but today, we are forced to tinker with things to see where we get the best results. So yeah, our roster and strategy falls in line with that report you read for sure.
 
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Habs Halifax

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No guts no glory. Romanov, as good as he was, was expendable and easily replaceable within a 3-5 years window, and probably with assets we already had in the farm too.

Dach's profile OTOH, is rare. Looks like it's about to pay off. But even if it didn't, it was worth the gamble.

Remember when some "expert fans" on HF boards thought we should have kept the 13th pick after trading Romanov? Nazar was going to be a star. :facepalm:. This is an example of how some fans don't understand rebuilds and think all 1st rounders are worth more than a guy like Dach. Same with the late 1st and early 2nd for Newhook.
 

Mrb1p

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I just need to say how great it is to have Dach and Suzuki after years of Plekanec and/or Desharnais as our best centres...with all due respect to Plekanec who I loved he was a 3C at best.
Thats stupid as hell. You don't put up 70 points in the early 10's while being one of the best defensive C's if youre a 3C at best. What a joke f***ing post.
 

Mrb1p

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How did you guys rank Dach, Cauldield, and Newhook in your 2019 draft rankings?
1.Jack Hughes
Tier 2
2. Kappo Kaako
3. Bowen Byram
4. Alex Newhook
Tier 3
5. Alex Turcotte
6. Matthew Boldy
7. Kirby Dach
8. Pavel Dorofeyev
9. Ville Henoila
10. Dylan Cozens
11. Moritz Seider
12. Cole Caufield
 

DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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1.Jack Hughes
Tier 2
2. Kappo Kaako
3. Bowen Byram
4. Alex Newhook
Tier 3
5. Alex Turcotte
6. Matthew Boldy
7. Kirby Dach
8. Pavel Dorofeyev
9. Ville Henoila
10. Dylan Cozens
11. Moritz Seider
12. Cole Caufield

Where do you think you went right or wrong?
 

That Habs Fan

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Thats stupid as hell. You don't put up 70 points in the early 10's while being one of the best defensive C's if youre a 3C at best. What a joke f***ing post.

Calm down. It's not meant as an insult to Plekanec.

One year of 70 points doesn't change the fact we relied on him for a role he wasn't cut out for. Desharnais scored 60 one year, should he have been Pacioretty's centre as long as he was?
 

yianik

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Jun 30, 2009
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1.Jack Hughes
Tier 2
2. Kappo Kaako
3. Bowen Byram
4. Alex Newhook
Tier 3
5. Alex Turcotte
6. Matthew Boldy
7. Kirby Dach
8. Pavel Dorofeyev
9. Ville Henoila
10. Dylan Cozens
11. Moritz Seider
12. Cole Caufield
Lol. So Habs now have 3 of your top 12 from that year. You should send that in to HUGO looking for a scouting job.
 

DAChampion

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Calm down. It's not meant as an insult to Plekanec.

One year of 70 points doesn't change the fact we relied on him for a role he wasn't cut out for. Desharnais scored 60 one year, should he have been Pacioretty's centre as long as he was?

Desharnais scored 60 points on easy mode.

Plekanec scored 69 and 70 points on intermediate-to-hard mode.
 
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KevSkillz4

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How did you guys rank Dach, Cauldield, and Newhook in your 2019 draft rankings?

1 - Jack Hughes.
2 - Kaapo Kakko.
3 - Bowen Byram.
4 - Kirby Dach.
5 - Cole Caufield.
6 - Dylan Cozens.
7 - Trevor Zegras.
8 - Matt Boldy.
9 - Alex Newhook.
10 - Moritz Seider.

That's looked like that my top 10 in 2019 final rankings. I really liked Kirby Dach in his draft year, I always compared him to Ryan Getzlaf and right now, he show all his talent and can become that type of player if he continue like that. Caufield at 15, I'm maybe the most happy guy when they selected him, I can't believe that he isn't drafted in top 8. I really liked Newhook game aswell, speed, great shot, great passing abilities and great hands.
 

Mrb1p

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Where do you think you went right or wrong?
More seriously, Heinola got the Kotkaniemi treatment in Winnipeg, was up and down, barely played on his call-ups, etc. He's a typical development victim. Turcotte was injuries that got him. Im sure these two players would still have been pretty good with more normal development curves.

I barely scouted Kaako. When there's unanimous picks like that, I typically just have incidental viewings (Viewing other prospects on the same team or against.), same with Hughes, but Hughes played with a lot of other players that were big names so I saw a bunch of his. Not making excuses, but it is what it is, laziness. Also Im sure we could blame the Rangers (Gorton) for developpign him poorly but if Im honest, I havent followed at all.

Byram I still like there, would take before most. I think he's a top asset in the NHL, and this is despite career threatening injuries (Concussions.)


Newhook is so skilled, Im sure even today most can see the package. He skates as fast as anyone, can stickhandle, can wire a shot from anywhere and he's a good play maker. Why he hasn't already put it all together is beyond me. Him playing in the BCHL made all of his skills pop out even more though, he was literally McDavid on ice when I watched him in the B. Adjusting for league is always tough.

I don't think I was particularly wrong on Boldy, Id still have him ahead of everyone but Seider on this list.

Dach I wasn't too low and I don't think I was wrong much, Seider and Caufield would jump ahead, that's about it from 2019. We could say he was too low, though.

Dorofeyev I expect makes the team as a regular this year, getting a top 6er at 8th isn't bad at all. He's underrated. Of course its a failure to have him above Caufield, Cozens and Seider.

Cozens I loved. I had him as high as 4 most of the year but got convinced by some that he had "low IQ" and when you start looking for something, you usually find it. Moral of the story is do not take the opinion of others when scouting, unless you trust them. (Theres about 5 person I trust with their opinion on prospects on this board.)

Seider I actually had higher than most anyone I think! He's too low, of course, but I think it's a win in most rankings, as an example, Bob had Seider 16th overall.

Coles too low, no other way around it, should've been 4th if I really trusted my gut, lol. He was small though, and still is, of course.

The big omission is Zegras, and while I still don't like him at all as a player, he should've been much higher than 25. I went overboard with this.

1.Jack Hughes
Tier 2
2. Kappo Kaako
3. Bowen Byram
4. Alex Newhook
Tier 3
5. Alex Turcotte
6. Matthew Boldy
7. Kirby Dach
8. Pavel Dorofeyev
9. Ville Henoila
10. Dylan Cozens
11. Moritz Seider
12. Cole Caufield
Calm down. It's not meant as an insult to Plekanec.

One year of 70 points doesn't change the fact we relied on him for a role he wasn't cut out for. Desharnais scored 60 one year, should he have been Pacioretty's centre as long as he was?
There's no calming down and it was a downright insult. It's not one year, it's 2 of 70, three of 60+, 7 of 50+. All while playing the shutdown matchup minutes. It's a 56 points pace over his 841 prime years, it's 1900+ minutes of PK time, good for 9th in the NHL for forwards over that time frame. It's good for 20th overall in production for centers during that time frame. It's only a total of 9 points per season of production behind Bergeron, would you call him a barely 2C ?

Your comment was stupid. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Habs Halifax

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1 - Jack Hughes.
2 - Kaapo Kakko.
3 - Bowen Byram.
4 - Kirby Dach.
5 - Cole Caufield.
6 - Dylan Cozens.
7 - Trevor Zegras.
8 - Matt Boldy.
9 - Alex Newhook.
10 - Moritz Seider.

That's looked like that my top 10 in 2019 final rankings. I really liked Kirby Dach in his draft year, I always compared him to Ryan Getzlaf and right now, he show all his talent and can become that type of player if he continue like that. Caufield at 15, I'm maybe the most happy guy when they selected him, I can't believe that he isn't drafted in top 8. I really liked Newhook game aswell, speed, great shot, great passing abilities and great hands.

I'm pretty sure most were high on Dach in that 3-5 range for that draft. I know I was and I know I remember a lot of posters talking about his potential.

Caufield on most list was in the 5-10 range from what I remember. I was shocked he slipped to 15th. I was also very high on Newhook but in the 10-15 range. Newhook was not in my top 10 but on the cusp. I was happy we added Newhook but I was ecstatic when we added Dach. And I was a huge Romanov fan too.

Very interesting to see how the re-drafts unfold year after year. Some fans have to consider that with their future rankings and how they talk with authority on their rankings/opinions. It's very difficult to project 17/18 year olds and what they will do from age 18+.
 
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Skip Bayless

The Skip Bayless Show
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How did you guys rank Dach, Cauldield, and Newhook in your 2019 draft rankings?

This is what I had :

1-Hughes
2-Kakko
3-Zegras
4-Byram
5-Turcotte
6-Cozens
7-Caufield
8-Boldy
9-Krebs
10-Broberg
11-Dach
12-Podkolzin
13-Kaliyev
14-Newhook
15-Tomasino
16-Harley
17-Pinto
18-York
19- Heinola
20-Soderstrom

At the time, I wanted Tomasino or Harley. Was ok with Newhook.

Not a Seider believer at all.
 
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Toene

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Nov 17, 2014
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More seriously, Heinola got the Kotkaniemi treatment in Winnipeg, was up and down, barely played on his call-ups, etc. He's a typical development victim. Turcotte was injuries that got him. Im sure these two players would still have been pretty good with more normal development curves.

I barely scouted Kaako. When there's unanimous picks like that, I typically just have incidental viewings (Viewing other prospects on the same team or against.), same with Hughes, but Hughes played with a lot of other players that were big names so I saw a bunch of his. Not making excuses, but it is what it is, laziness. Also Im sure we could blame the Rangers (Gorton) for developpign him poorly but if Im honest, I havent followed at all.

Byram I still like there, would take before most. I think he's a top asset in the NHL, and this is despite career threatening injuries (Concussions.)


Newhook is so skilled, Im sure even today most can see the package. He skates as fast as anyone, can stickhandle, can wire a shot from anywhere and he's a good play maker. Why he hasn't already put it all together is beyond me. Him playing in the BCHL made all of his skills pop out even more though, he was literally McDavid on ice when I watched him in the B. Adjusting for league is always tough.

I don't think I was particularly wrong on Boldy, Id still have him ahead of everyone but Seider on this list.

Dach I wasn't too low and I don't think I was wrong much, Seider and Caufield would jump ahead, that's about it from 2019. We could say he was too low, though.

Dorofeyev I expect makes the team as a regular this year, getting a top 6er at 8th isn't bad at all. He's underrated. Of course its a failure to have him above Caufield, Cozens and Seider.

Cozens I loved. I had him as high as 4 most of the year but got convinced by some that he had "low IQ" and when you start looking for something, you usually find it. Moral of the story is do not take the opinion of others when scouting, unless you trust them. (Theres about 5 person I trust with their opinion on prospects on this board.)

Seider I actually had higher than most anyone I think! He's too low, of course, but I think it's a win in most rankings, as an example, Bob had Seider 16th overall.

Coles too low, no other way around it, should've been 4th if I really trusted my gut, lol. He was small though, and still is, of course.

The big omission is Zegras, and while I still don't like him at all as a player, he should've been much higher than 25. I went overboard with this.

1.Jack Hughes
Tier 2
2. Kappo Kaako
3. Bowen Byram
4. Alex Newhook
Tier 3
5. Alex Turcotte
6. Matthew Boldy
7. Kirby Dach
8. Pavel Dorofeyev
9. Ville Henoila
10. Dylan Cozens
11. Moritz Seider
12. Cole Caufield

There's no calming down and it was a downright insult. It's not one year, it's 2 of 70, three of 60+, 7 of 50+. All while playing the shutdown matchup minutes. It's a 56 points pace over his 841 prime years, it's 1900+ minutes of PK time, good for 9th in the NHL for forwards over that time frame. It's good for 20th overall in production for centers during that time frame. It's only a total of 9 points per season of production behind Bergeron, would you call him a barely 2C ?

Your comment was stupid. Nothing more, nothing less.
Also playing his prime years in a low-scoring era. What I'll say will be seen as harsh by many, Im sure. But as of now, I don't believe Suzuki has exceeded Plekanec's peak. I think he'll do, eventually, but that day has not come yet. Getting 60 points is relatively easy in today's league (except on our shit team apparently). Back then it was legit 1st liner production.
 

Mrb1p

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Also playing his prime years in a low-scoring era. What I'll say will be seen as harsh by many, Im sure. But as of now, I don't believe Suzuki has exceeded Plekanec's peak. I think he'll do, eventually, but that day has not come yet. Getting 60 points is relatively easy in today's league (except on our shit team apparently). Back then it was legit 1st liner production.
I agree up to a point. Suzuki has clearly shown superior offensive aptitudes than Pleker ever did but Plekanecs raw results in his situation are very underrated. I think part of that is his style that was non-spectaculat and just being based around hard work and IQ. I think both showed they were around top 15ish-20 centers at their best (so far for Nick.)

Calling him a 3C is f***ing stupid and I rarely call an opinion stupid in a sea of stupid opinion on this board.
 
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Toene

Y'en aura pas de facile
Nov 17, 2014
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I agree up to a point. Suzuki has clearly shown superior offensive aptitudes than Pleker ever did but Plekanecs raw results in his situation are very underrated. I think part of that is his style that was non-spectaculat and just being based around hard work and IQ. I think both showed they were around top 15ish-20 centers at their best (so far for Nick.)

Calling him a 3C is f***ing stupid and I rarely call an opinion stupid in a sea of stupid opinion on this board.
They're not far apart, I guess it could go either way. Suzuki has better hands, a stronger shot and more acute offensive instincts. I'm just surprised to see posters acting like we're in business with Suz as a 1c when we whined for a decade that Plek was not a 1c on a contending team.
 

JoelWarlord

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May 7, 2012
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Plekanec was awesome, prime Pleks would still be our 1C today. I think Suzuki's ceiling is higher as he has the potential to be more of a big time PP guy as he's a more cerebral and creative playmaker but as of yet I don't think he's surpassed Plekanec's best.
 

dackelljuneaubulis02

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Oct 13, 2012
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Everywhere ? Lmaooooo
I liked what I saw in Dorothy too. Those are reasonable rankings. Caufield and Seider I think we’re too low even at the time but I think you only went off board with Heinola and Dorothy. I remember how much you loved both of them.

I think I wanted Caufield more than anyone except Kakko. Didn’t even think he was possible where we got him. I didn’t really have eyes on half of these guys though. I think I did look at most of the forwards.

Loved Seider. He may have been my third or fourth fave prospect. Didn’t like Newhook at all. Hope he proves me wrong.
 

Tyson

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Mar 1, 2007
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They're not far apart, I guess it could go either way. Suzuki has better hands, a stronger shot and more acute offensive instincts. I'm just surprised to see posters acting like we're in business with Suz as a 1c when we whined for a decade that Plek was not a 1c on a contending team.
Our standards have continued to creep downward over the years. Oh and Suzuki hasn't attained Plek's best years....yet.
 
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dackelljuneaubulis02

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Oct 13, 2012
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Plekanec was awesome, prime Pleks would still be our 1C today. I think Suzuki's ceiling is higher as he has the potential to be more of a big time PP guy as he's a more cerebral and creative playmaker but as of yet I don't think he's surpassed Plekanec's best.
Prime Pleks didn’t last long. Looked really good with Kovy And AK46 In 07-08. Bad the next then had that career year. Not long after that he forgot how to pass and then just kind of slowly went downhill.

He’d still give you 20 pretty reliably and great D but outside of that his minus playmaking was painful to watch. Which was crazy because he used to be able to pull off some nice sauce passes. His tunnel vision was wild.

All in all a very good career but kind of overrated by many.
 
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Mrb1p

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I liked what I saw in Dorothy too. Those are reasonable rankings. Caufield and Seider I think we’re too low even at the time but I think you only went off board with Heinola and Dorothy. I remember how much you loved both of them.

I think I wanted Caufield more than anyone except Kakko. Didn’t even think he was possible where we got him. I didn’t really have eyes on half of these guys though. I think I did look at most of the forwards.

Loved Seider. He may have been my third or fourth fave prospect. Didn’t like Newhook at all. Hope he proves me wrong.
Not sure Seider was low for the time, I think I had him the 2nd highest of everyone on this board, just DGE had him like 5th. At least of the people that put out lists.
 

Skip Bayless

The Skip Bayless Show
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3 favourite Dach moments tonight;

Beating Matthews for a turnover on goal no2

The crosscheck in the face of the Dmen in front of the net on goal no4

The pass on the winning goal



What a great sequence by Monahan on that one. The poise, slows down the play just enough before passing it to Kovacevic at the point.
 

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