Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Walrus26]

Large and in charge, with skill and iq.

He's going to be a nightmare to play against and I love it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

On the first page of the first thread I said it was worth the gamble.

Player Discussion - Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal

Welcome to Montreal Kirby! Romanov + 93rd + 66th for Dach. How do we feel about this?

forums.hfboards.com

It’s great to invest in young talent and I’m a big fan from that perspective. But I’d much rather trade a vet. What really worried me on this trade was the wrist injury. But he seems to be okay on that front.

I think most people here would say they’re happy with the trade now.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Hold your horses… 50 points this year is more realistic.

He was on pace for 54 pts last season.
He also improved a lot from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. He finished with 9 goals and 15 pts in his last 19 games.

 

[Lshap]

Yesterday showcased the strength / power game Dach possesses… now comes the hard part, consistently applying that capability along w his finesse skill set, and properly integrating both aspects into his everyday game.

Agreed. Dach has everything... except a track-record. Based on his skills and strength he could easily produce more than 60 pts. Of course, variables like focus, fatigue, usage, and health could move those numbers up or down during a lonnnng season. But based on what I'm seeing it's hard not to be excited about the kid's potential.

And let's take a moment to appreciate having someone on our team named "Kirby".

 

[Colezuki]

Loved the trade at the time and love it now, if you we're to trade romanov now you wouldn't get Dach and no one where would want to make that trade, that's how you have to build a team, you have to take gambles. Which bergevin never did

 

[Habs Halifax]

Even though Dach currently seems like the best fit for Caufield-Suzuki, he should nevertheless definitely be developed as a center going forward; his size, style and transition game are simply too good to leave on the wing, core-wise.

If everyone’s healthy, my pre-TDL 2024 lineup would thus be:

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan/Newhook
Newhook/Monahan - Dach - Slafkovsky
RHP - Dvorak* - Anderson
Pearson* - Evans - Gallagher
Pezzetta, Ylonen*/Armia

As for the post-TDL 2024 lineup, it would hopefully be:

Caufield - Suzuki - Roy
Monahan - Dach - Slafkovsky
RHP - Newhook - Anderson
Heineman - Evans - Gallagher
Pezzetta, Armia

There is a few different things we can try and I'm sure we will. Opening night line-ups probably are not what they look like in Nov/Dec

 

[EveryDay]

I hope we get get a solid top 6 winger on UFA market next year or in the draft.

Caufield-Suzuki-Nylander/Reinhart/Demidov
Newhook-Dach-Slafkovski

 

[Frankenheimer]

Loved the trade at the time and love it now, if you we're to trade romanov now you wouldn't get Dach and no one where would want to make that trade, that's how you have to build a team, you have to take gambles. Which bergevin never did

He most certainly gambled. The Drouin trade for one. But also trading for a 31 year old defenseman with a lot of mileage (which actually paid off to a degree). Then there were all the weird trade deadline deals. I wouldn’t say he made safe deals or moves. Mailloux was a huge gamble.

The fact is a good part of our current team is composed of players Bergevin either drafted or obtained via trades. There was just no overarching philosophy to his moves, nor to development, and he made desperate trades/signings near the end of his tenure that have hamstrung the team. But I think it makes no sense to idolize the current management (as they will blunder also), nor dismiss what the previous management left as useful pieces. Clearly they improved their drafting in the last few years as many of his draft picks are part of an exciting future.

Again, not a fan, but not black and white. What I like about Hughes so far is his willingness to try new approaches (hiring MSL was brilliant), and to show some strategic thinking (trying to build an age balanced roster that can grow together).

The true gamble would have been drafting Michkov and that will be part of his legacy if he becomes generational.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Loved the trade at the time and love it now, if you we're to trade romanov now you wouldn't get Dach and no one where would want to make that trade, that's how you have to build a team, you have to take gambles. Which bergevin never did

Bergevin wasn’t very creative. He made some decent lateral trades that worked out for him and he had his moments like the Petry trade but it always seemed like he was scared of losing trades. Dach and Newhook were unique. We’ll see how the Newhook trade ages. Trading Petry for Matheson was a steal. It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out because the drafting hasn’t wowed me early. They’re likely going to find themselves in a situation where they do have to make moves that fill holes that are tougher to fill unless we grow them ourselves. Hopefully we don’t get the same “trades are hard” excuses when it’s time to graduate to competing again.

 

[morhilane]

There is a few different things we can try and I'm sure we will. Opening night line-ups probably are not what they look like in Nov/Dec

They never are. I think it's something like 70% of them changes (league-wide) by November. I read some articles about that last season.

But MSL focusing on duos probably means some lines will look quite similar all season barring injuries.

 

[Jaynki]

I was a bit skeptical the night of the 2022 draft.

Going with Slafkovsky and then agressively trading for Dach seemed quite the risk.

So far tho, it looks like the most promising thing ive ever witnessed as a Habs fan.

Two duo of Suzuki-Caufield and Dach-Slaf.

We are in business baby.

I believe Dach to have the highest upside of all our forward. Thats not a knock on the other 3, who i think are all awesome. Simply a testament of Dach skills and upside.

I still cant believe it. f***ing Kirby Dach baby.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Love Nick too, in a perfect world they both keep improving and we end up with a great 1A/1B complementary duo down the middle.

That’s what I’m seeing.

Didn’t watch a ton last year but Suzuki’s skating looks dramatically improved. That’s quite the developmental leap for a young vet.

I have 100% confidence in Big D as a captain. I think he’s gonna have a proper breakout year.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I was a bit skeptical the night of the 2022 draft.

Going with Slafkovsky and then agressively trading for Dach seemed quite the risk.

So far tho, it looks like the most promising thing ive ever witnessed as a Habs fan.

Two duo of Suzuki-Caufield and Dach-Slaf.

We are in business baby.

I believe Dach to have the highest upside of all our forward. Thats not a knock on the other 3, who i think are all awesome. Simply a testament of Dach skills and upside.

I still cant believe it. f***ing Kirby Dach baby.

Honestly, I think it could be Slaf with the highest upside. In a way you could make a case for all 4 which is a great problem to have. And you still have Newhook and Roy. RHP ain’t chopped liver himself.

I’ve been trying to make the case that our forward situation is good enough as is since the summer. Wait and see but I think there’s tremendous potential up front

 

[Colezuki]

He most certainly gambled. The Drouin trade for one. But also trading for a 31 year old defenseman with a lot of mileage (which actually paid off to a degree). Then there were all the weird trade deadline deals. I wouldn’t say he made safe deals or moves. Mailloux was a huge gamble.

The fact is a good part of our current team is composed of players Bergevin either drafted or obtained via trades. There was just no overarching philosophy to his moves, nor to development, and he made desperate trades/signings near the end of his tenure that have hamstrung the team. But I think it makes no sense to idolize the current management (as they will blunder also), nor dismiss what the previous management left as useful pieces. Clearly they improved their drafting in the last few years as many of his draft picks are part of an exciting future.

Again, not a fan, but not black and white. What I like about Hughes so far is his willingness to try new approaches (hiring MSL was brilliant), and to show some strategic thinking (trying to build an age balanced roster that can grow together).

The true gamble would have been drafting Michkov and that will be part of his legacy if he becomes generational.

A broken clock is right twice a day, bergevin's issue was he lacked any sort of cohesive vision for the future and was much more reactive to how things played out. Great example i think we can all see the quality of the drafting over the last couple of years, and his ability to pick players but no one developed into anything during his tenure. Immediately after gorton and hughes joined they full overhauled development.

Bergevin tried to suck and blow at the same time, when instead he should have been taking the pens mantra and aggressively dumping futures while weber and price we're in the late stages of their careers.

Example, we could have traded the 3rd overall to Buffalo in 2018 for RoR which was the ask at the time, which would have immediately strengthened our center ice position, sure we would've lost 3rd but it would have immediately made Danault the 2, ROR the 1 and then with Weber and price we would have been a much more difficult team to play against.

Sure this is hindsight is 20/20 but I can at least see Hughes is focused on trying to create a competitive window right now

 

[salbutera]

A broken clock is right twice a day, bergevin's issue was he lacked any sort of cohesive vision for the future and was much more reactive to how things played out. Great example i think we can all see the quality of the drafting over the last couple of years, and his ability to pick players but no one developed into anything during his tenure. Immediately after gorton and hughes joined they full overhauled development.

Bergevin tried to suck and blow at the same time, when instead he should have been taking the pens mantra and aggressively dumping futures while weber and price we're in the late stages of their careers.

Example, we could have traded the 3rd overall to Buffalo in 2018 for RoR which was the ask at the time, which would have immediately strengthened our center ice position, sure we would've lost 3rd but it would have immediately made Danault the 2, ROR the 1 and then with Weber and price we would have been a much more difficult team to play against.

Sure this is hindsight is 20/20 but I can at least see Hughes is focused on trying to create a competitive window right now

When rumors started popping up about Zibenajad being available in late 2015-2016 season, I was hoping Habs would flip Galchenyuk in a 1-for-1 deal especially after that mirage of a 30G season

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

A broken clock is right twice a day, bergevin's issue was he lacked any sort of cohesive vision for the future and was much more reactive to how things played out. Great example i think we can all see the quality of the drafting over the last couple of years, and his ability to pick players but no one developed into anything during his tenure. Immediately after gorton and hughes joined they full overhauled development.

Bergevin tried to suck and blow at the same time, when instead he should have been taking the pens mantra and aggressively dumping futures while weber and price we're in the late stages of their careers.

Example, we could have traded the 3rd overall to Buffalo in 2018 for RoR which was the ask at the time, which would have immediately strengthened our center ice position, sure we would've lost 3rd but it would have immediately made Danault the 2, ROR the 1 and then with Weber and price we would have been a much more difficult team to play against.

Sure this is hindsight is 20/20 but I can at least see Hughes is focused on trying to create a competitive window right now

Yes, ROR would have been very welcome at the time. With Danault taking care of the Matthews and co. Weber in shape with Price in shape, could do damage.

 

[Jaynki]

Honestly, I think it could be Slaf with the highest upside. In a way you could make a case for all 4 which is a great problem to have. And you still have Newhook and Roy. RHP ain’t chopped liver himself.

I’ve been trying to make the case that our forward situation is good enough as is since the summer. Wait and see but I think there’s tremendous potential up front

Well i won't argue if you think Slaf has higher upside . Both of these has major star, physically dominant upside.

Newhook, RHP, Roy are nice player too and all are developing well but we are not talking about the same upside. They dont belong in the conversation with the other 4.

Still,i know Chicago are happy because they got Bedard and they will excuse that trading Dach was part of the plan but :

1)they might have won the lottery with Dach
2)its luck and low percentage play
3)who the f*** in his right mind trade f***ing 21YO Dach for a f***ing 13ov pick

 

[SlafySZN]

Well i won't argue if you think Slaf has higher upside . Both of these has major star, physically dominant upside.

Newhook, RHP, Roy are nice player too and all are developing well but we are not talking about the same upside. They dont belong in the conversation with the other 4.

Still,i know Chicago are happy because they got Bedard and they will excuse that trading Dach was part of the plan but :

1)they might have won the lottery with Dach
2)its luck and low percentage play
3)who the f*** in his right mind trade f***ing 21YO Dach for a f***ing 13ov pick

Yeah, but but but… Nazar!!!!

 

[Jaynki]

Yeah, but but but… Nazar!!!!

Odds are very strong against Chicago in this trade and Nazar will have to blow above his absolute ceiling for it to be justified.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Yes, ROR would have been very welcome at the time. With Danault taking care of the Matthews and co. Weber in shape with Price in shape, could do damage.

I'm going to brag and recall that I was one of a handful who was into the idea of acquiring ROR. The vast majority of this board was adamantly against it.

 

[morhilane]

Odds are very strong against Chicago in this trade and Nazar will have to blow above his absolute ceiling for it to be justified.

They got Bedard, I don't think they care much about if Nazar blow his ceiling to justify that trade.

 

[Jaynki]

They got Bedard, I don't think they care much about if Nazar blow his ceiling to justify that trade.

They will care a lot mate if they fail to surround him properly and fail to take the next step.

They literally have given Dach.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Well i won't argue if you think Slaf has higher upside . Both of these has major star, physically dominant upside.

Newhook, RHP, Roy are nice player too and all are developing well but we are not talking about the same upside. They dont belong in the conversation with the other 4.

Still,i know Chicago are happy because they got Bedard and they will excuse that trading Dach was part of the plan but :

1)they might have won the lottery with Dach
2)its luck and low percentage play
3)who the f*** in his right mind trade f***ing 21YO Dach for a f***ing 13ov pick

I’m not 100% on Slaf but there’s something about his game. Him having a better shot than Dach helps though. Amazing to have both.

I don’t think Roy and Newhook are THAT far off in terms of upside. Slightly lesser degree.

RHP is but when you see that a guy who scored how he did last year doesn’t have the upside as six young forwards ahead of him, you can’t help but be heartened by that

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

They got Bedard, I don't think they care much about if Nazar blow his ceiling to justify that trade.

That logic doesn't work.
That would be like us saying we don't care about the sergachev trade because whatever happened since led us to getting a new management, and top prospects such as Slaf, Reinbacher, and Hutson.

 

[Scriptor]

I’m not 100% on Slaf but there’s something about his game. Him having a better shot than Dach helps though. Amazing to have both.

I don’t think Roy and Newhook are THAT far off in terms of upside. Slightly lesser degree.

RHP is but when you see that a guy who scored how he did last year doesn’t have the upside as six young forwards ahead of him, you can’t help but be heartened by that

I'd like to see a line of Slafkovsky - Dach - Roy to start the year over a 9-game span.

For one, it frees up Mono-brow to play with Mighty Mouse and Suzuki.

Secondly, it allows for Newhook to pivot a good third line with offensive upside against lesser opposition.

MSL rolls his lines after giving Suzuki 20+ minutes a night, so there shouldn't be tremendously less TOI for Newhook. Plus, he can also play more minutes special teams (2nd PP wave, 1st PK wave).

It also allows to build on the chemistry from last season between RHP and Anderson.

Mighty Mouse - The Nature of Things - Mono-Brow
Slaf-Cough-Ski - Means to get Bedard - The King
Three letters, two chances, go! - Nouvel Hameçon - Speed 3: The Sequel to the Sequel
Lester B. - THE Vorak - Irish Mini Me

Ideally like to give this lineup a chance.