Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[ScoutLife4]

This is where things get interesting for Kingston.
Let's see if Mews comes to life......

 

[frontsfan67]

This is where things get interesting for Kingston.
Let's see if Mews comes to life......

Imo he’s the #1 player they have to go out and get. Get him then blow your brains out using all the picks etc. the next year with 2 first rounders- trade mews and Battaglia at the deadline for a first rounder each and build around the 4 09 firsts

 

[ScoutLife4]

Imo he’s the #1 player they have to go out and get. Get him then blow your brains out using all the picks etc. the next year with 2 first rounders- trade mews and Battaglia at the deadline for a first rounder each and build around the 4 09 firsts

They are likely more focused on a 2C right now but i'm VERY concerned about that 2nd D pairing not being addressed.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I think we see either Henry Mews or Matthew Andonovski moved to Kingston.
Nothing firm yet by the sounds of it.

 

[FrontalLobe]

Cooper states that some of these picks will help bring in a forward with another trade

Picks will be used to bring in a D first. Don't think it will be one the two mentioned above though! But another great option.

 

[leafs4life94]

Any word on the OA situation? At this point I'm guessing Heyes starts the year since we haven't heard anything?

I'm not sure of the import situation around the league but I also wonder if there's any small market for Chromiak assuming Pieniniemi is still expected to come.

 

[frontsfan67]

They are likely more focused on a 2C right now but i'm VERY concerned about that 2nd D pairing not being addressed.

In my opinion even if they didn’t make anymore moves at forward they still have 3 pretty solid lines. Can always add to it obviously but yes that 2nd d line needs to be addressed if they want to go far. No offence to uens, McGowan, Williamson, velliaris but if one of them are on tje second line on a contending year then we have a very clear Achilles heel.

 

[frontsfan67]

Any word on the OA situation? At this point I'm guessing Heyes starts the year since we haven't heard anything?

What I have been told is Heyes starts the year but they’re trying to improve that OA spot- and going for best available forward or defence

 

[OMG67]

I think we see either Henry Mews or Matthew Andonovski moved to Kingston.
Nothing firm yet by the sounds of it.

Out of curiosity, Brampton has shown they are out for blood and have made some big moves already. Would it not benefit Kingston to wait a bit and see how the season unfolds the first few months before they throw bait in the water? I would think it would be better at this point to not acquire one year players. I can understand Mews as a two year player but adding the one year players at high cost, especially 19 year olds doesn’t make a lot of sense right now.

To me, it seems more likely they add the required OA’s at a reasonable cost when teams start to need to shed their excess and let Mann do his thing with the roster and continue to build a new culture. If it makes sense to make more moves based on the landscape (one way or the other) then so be it but loading up and trying to match other teams right now is likely not a good recipe.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Out of curiosity, Brampton has shown they are out for blood and have made some big moves already. Would it not benefit Kingston to wait a bit and see how the season unfolds the first few months before they throw bait in the water? I would think it would be better at this point to not acquire one year players. I can understand Mews as a two year player but adding the one year players at high cost, especially 19 year olds doesn’t make a lot of sense right now.

To me, it seems more likely they add the required OA’s at a reasonable cost when teams start to need to shed their excess and let Mann do his thing with the roster and continue to build a new culture. If it makes sense to make more moves based on the landscape (one way or the other) then so be it but loading up and trying to match other teams right now is likely not a good recipe.

How long are they supposed to wait? Forever? They been waiting for what 20 years now?
Brampton is all in, Oshawa may be all in if a couple things go their way, Brantford will be good but likely is going to take the wait and see approach.
Let's say Oshawa has a few unfortunate decisions made at the NHL/AHL level and they are out of it.
That leaves Brampton, Kingston, Brantford as pretty strong East teams.
Barrie should be solid but i'm not sure they will be fighting for number 1 or 2.
Sudbury needs to sell off and Niagara is just Niagara and most likely will send some Gifts to London for a couple sacks of cash.
Kingston can make another move and maybe seperate themselves from Brantford.
I don't see at this point why Kingston wouldn't try and build a team to contend with Brampton.
Ottawa, Peterborough, NB should be fairly weak.

If Kingston can land a true 2C and 2nd pair OA Dman i think they can be fighting Brampton.

 

[cruickshankd]

How long are they supposed to wait? Forever? They been waiting for what 20 years now?
Brampton is all in, Oshawa may be all in if a couple things go their way, Brantford will be good but likely is going to take the wait and see approach.
Let's say Oshawa has a few unfortunate decisions made at the NHL/AHL level and they are out of it.
That leaves Brampton, Kingston, Brantford as pretty strong East teams.
Barrie should be solid but i'm not sure they will be fighting for number 1 or 2.
Sudbury needs to sell off and Niagara is just Niagara and most likely will send some Gifts to London for a couple sacks of cash.
Kingston can make another move and maybe seperate themselves from Brantford.
I don't see at this point why Kingston wouldn't try and build a team to contend with Brampton.
Ottawa, Peterborough, NB should be fairly weak.

If Kingston can land a true 2C and 2nd pair OA Dman i think they can be fighting Brampton.

Barrie + Colby Barlow

 

[ScoutLife4]

Barrie + Colby Barlow

Is that official?
Barrie will have a bare cupboard after that one if so it wouldn't leave them any room for any other improvements.
I've heard about 6 different teams say they have interest now

 

[OMG67]

How long are they supposed to wait? Forever? They been waiting for what 20 years now?
Brampton is all in, Oshawa may be all in if a couple things go their way, Brantford will be good but likely is going to take the wait and see approach.
Let's say Oshawa has a few unfortunate decisions made at the NHL/AHL level and they are out of it.
That leaves Brampton, Kingston, Brantford as pretty strong East teams.
Barrie should be solid but i'm not sure they will be fighting for number 1 or 2.
Sudbury needs to sell off and Niagara is just Niagara and most likely will send some Gifts to London for a couple sacks of cash.
Kingston can make another move and maybe seperate themselves from Brantford.
I don't see at this point why Kingston wouldn't try and build a team to contend with Brampton.
Ottawa, Peterborough, NB should be fairly weak.

If Kingston can land a true 2C and 2nd pair OA Dman i think they can be fighting Brampton.

I’m not saying that is inaccurate. I am saying the timing may not be ideal to jump on players right now, at least not players that won’t be back next season.

No one knows what this team will be like on the ice. It was basically a .500 team last year and by all accounts, we can admit they likely underachieved. I would hesitate throwing assets at an underachieving team. I would likely wait and see what type of drive this team has first. Allow them to earn the additions to compete at a higher level.

Granted, sometimes in this stage of the season, players can be available that wouldn’t otherwise be available and/or at the right price. At the same time, you shouldn’t build a team in the offseason on paper and hope it unfolds as planned, especially a team with a relatively new coach and a roster that hasn’t proven themselves in the past.

IMO, Kingston should solve their problems. Move the players that want out as well as players that simply do not fit the coaches style. Fine. Bring in some cheaper players that can fill the gaps, especially OA’s. Cool. But, going out and acquiring Andonovski in the offseason before the puck has even dropped? That is too much too soon.

Give the team a couple months of the regular season to see what they are made of. Then, when you see the gaps, fill them if you feel the team can honestly compete against the class of the league.

I don’t understand why there seems to be such a massive push towards emptying the cupboards of future assets and the puck hasn’t even dropped yet. IT makes no sense, especially when the top dog in the Conference is pretty far ahead on paper.

 

[cruickshankd]

Is that official?
Barrie will have a bare cupboard after that one if so it wouldn't leave them any room for any other improvements.
I've heard about 6 different teams say they have interest now

He should be one of the top, if not THE TOP acquisition at deadline...perhaps a bidding war to take place

 

[OMG67]

He should be one of the top, if not THE TOP acquisition at deadline...perhaps a bidding war to take place

In fairness, if that happens, he will go to Barrie. Parker Vaughn would be the best player available hands down. I don’t see another contending team being able to offer anything better unless Brampton decided to keep Leenders and trade Ivankovic. Any other high value 17 year old would be a key component already to the contending team making that player almost impossible to trade. For example, would Kingston move Hopkins for Barlow? I would argue Hopkins isn’t an elite 17 year old (yet); however, there are people on here overwhelmingly not in favour of moving him in a deal with a two year player (Mews) let alone a one year player (Barlow).

So, it seems most likely that Owen sound would wait until after the WJHC And then move him to Barrie in a package for Vaughn. Seems the most likely scenario.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I’m not saying that is inaccurate. I am saying the timing may not be ideal to jump on players right now, at least not players that won’t be back next season.

No one knows what this team will be like on the ice. It was basically a .500 team last year and by all accounts, we can admit they likely underachieved. I would hesitate throwing assets at an underachieving team. I would likely wait and see what type of drive this team has first. Allow them to earn the additions to compete at a higher level.

Granted, sometimes in this stage of the season, players can be available that wouldn’t otherwise be available and/or at the right price. At the same time, you shouldn’t build a team in the offseason on paper and hope it unfolds as planned, especially a team with a relatively new coach and a roster that hasn’t proven themselves in the past.

IMO, Kingston should solve their problems. Move the players that want out as well as players that simply do not fit the coaches style. Fine. Bring in some cheaper players that can fill the gaps, especially OA’s. Cool. But, going out and acquiring Andonovski in the offseason before the puck has even dropped? That is too much too soon.

Give the team a couple months of the regular season to see what they are made of. Then, when you see the gaps, fill them if you feel the team can honestly compete against the class of the league.

I don’t understand why there seems to be such a massive push towards emptying the cupboards of future assets and the puck hasn’t even dropped yet. IT makes no sense, especially when the top dog in the Conference is pretty far ahead on paper.

I think their is a sense of urgency because a couple teams like Brampton and Barrie are making moves early. -I just sent a few texts and it does sound like Barlow to Barrie could be announced soon.
IMO that leaves Brampton, Oshawa, Kingston, Barrie as clear cut favorites in the East if i was seeding 1-4 it would be those 4 teams.
Waiting for deadline can backfire too. Deadline prices can be ridiculous and you get the player for all of 2-3 months for the cost.
Kingston is loaded with picks to make improvements, -Barrie will be bare if a Barlow trade goes through.
At the end of the day maybe they will wait an see but i do not think that's the intention at all from the conversations i have had with staff.

 

[OMG67]

I think their is a sense of urgency because a couple teams like Brampton and Barrie are making moves early. -I just sent a few texts and it does sound like Barlow to Barrie will be announced very soon.
IMO that leaves Brampton, Oshawa, Kingston, Barrie as clear cut favorites in the East if i was seeding 1-4 it would be those 4 teams.
Waiting for deadline can backfire too. Deadline prices can be ridiculous and you get the player for all of 2-3 months for the cost.
Kingston is loaded with picks to make improvements, -Barrie will be bare if a Barlow trade goes through.
At the end of the day maybe they will wait an see but i do not think that's the intention at all from the conversations i have had with staff.

Personally, if Kingston can get Mews for essentially the same package they received for Frasca, then that deal makes sense. Go get a two year player. I doubt that trade is there at that price but this offseason has been a bit odd.

I agree about prices now vs at the deadline. The challenge is if they do make those moves now and they don’t work as planned, what is the recourse? If those moves don’t work, Cooper is shit canned without question. Potentially Mann as well. There is a lot of risk associated to making bold moves in the offseason. If the market shifts the way I think it will, the deadline will be saturated with available players. I don’t see many contenders and if the standings shift heavily in favour of Barrie and Brampton with a major gap between 2nd and 3rd, I’m not sure the other teams will have the heart to go big game hunting in the East. The West could see some additional movement but if Misiak returns to Erie and Flint continues to build out, the competitiveness of that conference could narrow as well. There may be a lot of teams holding players at the deadline. I think that is one of the reasons why we are seeing early trades. I think the GM’s are sensing the same and would rather a bird in hand right now.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Personally, if Kingston can get Mews for essentially the same package they received for Frasca, then that deal makes sense. Go get a two year player. I doubt that trade is there at that price but this offseason has been a bit odd.

I agree about prices now vs at the deadline. The challenge is if they do make those moves now and they don’t work as planned, what is the recourse? If those moves don’t work, Cooper is shit canned without question. Potentially Mann as well. There is a lot of risk associated to making bold moves in the offseason. If the market shifts the way I think it will, the deadline will be saturated with available players. I don’t see many contenders and if the standings shift heavily in favour of Barrie and Brampton with a major gap between 2nd and 3rd, I’m not sure the other teams will have the heart to go big game hunting in the East. The West could see some additional movement but if Misiak returns to Erie and Flint continues to build out, the competitiveness of that conference could narrow as well. There may be a lot of teams holding players at the deadline. I think that is one of the reasons why we are seeing early trades. I think the GM’s are sensing the same and would rather a bird in hand right now.

Kingston is way to cheap to fire Mann first year into a Three year contract. Suggesting that is foolish.
I don't think Kingston will pay Ottawa what they want for Mews. For that reason i don't think it happens either.

Did Ottawa fire Boyd and Cameron yet for waiting all those picks on Kressler and Mallet, Mayer when we all knew they couldn't contend?

 

[OMG67]

Kingston is way to cheap to fire Mann first year into a Three year contract. Suggesting that is foolish.
I don't think Kingston will pay Ottawa what they want for Mews. For that reason i don't think it happens either.

If he signed a three year deal, he’d already have fulfilled his first season last year. He’d be two seasons into his three year contract. The firing would be next offseason after the lack of success and no assets left in the cupboard. Again, that isn’t speculation, just a risk mitigation exercise. Cooper would have to know that if he empties his draft cupboard on players in the offseason and the pieces don’t fit as planned, he’s toast. Maybe Mann stays but Cooper is without a doubt out the door. Do you think he has the nutz to risk that?

 

[cruickshankd]

I think their is a sense of urgency because a couple teams like Brampton and Barrie are making moves early. -I just sent a few texts and it does sound like Barlow to Barrie could be announced soon.
IMO that leaves Brampton, Oshawa, Kingston, Barrie as clear cut favorites in the East if i was seeding 1-4 it would be those 4 teams.
Waiting for deadline can backfire too. Deadline prices can be ridiculous and you get the player for all of 2-3 months for the cost.
Kingston is loaded with picks to make improvements, -Barrie will be bare if a Barlow trade goes through.
At the end of the day maybe they will wait an see but i do not think that's the intention at all from the conversations i have had with staff.

Barlow trade now could not include the prize Parker Vaughan

 

[OMG67]

Barlow trade now could not include the prize Parker Vaughan

It could be just picks. I wouldn’t have thought Owen Sound would do it that way but three 2nds, three 3rds, and three 4ths is the market price set by both Mintyukov and Rehkopf so it is possible.

Then, Barrie looks at their situation at the deadline and moves Vaughn if there is another player potentially available that suits their needs?

 

[ScoutLife4]

If he signed a three year deal, he’d already have fulfilled his first season last year. He’d be two seasons into his three year contract. The firing would be next offseason after the lack of success and no assets left in the cupboard. Again, that isn’t speculation, just a risk mitigation exercise. Cooper would have to know that if he empties his draft cupboard on players in the offseason and the pieces don’t fit as planned, he’s toast. Maybe Mann stays but Cooper is without a doubt out the door. Do you think he has the nutz to risk that?

Wrong - He extended 3 years after playoffs ended.

Frontenacs extend Head Coach Troy Mann - Ontario Hockey League

The Kingston Frontenacs have signed Head Coach Troy Mann to a three-year contract extension through the 2026-27 season.

chl.ca

He's there for 3 more. He is not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[OMG67]

Wrong - He extended 3 years after playoffs ended.

Frontenacs extend Head Coach Troy Mann - Ontario Hockey League

The Kingston Frontenacs have signed Head Coach Troy Mann to a three-year contract extension through the 2026-27 season.

chl.ca

He's there for 3 more. He is not going anywhere anytime soon.

In that case, I get you. Agreed. I could see it if they were eating one year, not two. But, I cannot see them keeping Cooper if shit hits the fan after trading away all their picks.

 

[ScoutLife4]

In that case, I get you. Agreed. I could see it if they were eating one year, not two. But, I cannot see them keeping Cooper if shit hits the fan after trading away all their picks.

It's way to early to be talking about coaches being fired.
Cooper every season in my opinion has improved as a GM trade wise.
There is always so many moving parts to why things happen and things that affect value, timing that we don't know about.
They have invested a lot of money and training into Cooper to just cut him free in a season they are expected to contend. I'm not even sure why we are talking about this right now lol.

Kingston is pressing pause right now because they are waiting to see if Wakely makes Bakersfield.
If he comes back to NB -Kingston will be right there in on him.

 

[OMG67]

It's way to early to be talking about coaches being fired.
Cooper every season in my opinion has improved as a GM trade wise.
There is always so many moving parts to why things happen and things that affect value, timing that we don't know about.
They have invested a lot of money and training into Cooper to just cut him free in a season they are expected to contend. I'm not even sure why we are talking about this right now lol.

Kingston is pressing pause right now because they are waiting to see if Wakely makes Bakersfield.
If he comes back to NB -Kingston will be right there in on him.

That makes sense. Like I said, fill in the cheaper OA spots. Wakely won’t be cheap but compared to what the cost would be for a 19 year old with the same production makes Wakely a bargain.

I get what you are saying regarding Cooper and Mann. My only point is they should wait to see what type of team steps foot on the ice before blowing their brains out of top flight 19 year olds. That 19 year old may not make a difference if the rest of the team doesn’t step up. THAT is what kills careers, namely Cooper’s. I think he needs to take a more cautious approach.

I think he did very well in the Frasca deal. Same with Thibodeau. He is purging the players that either don’t want to be there or they don’t want to keep (or both). That’s good. Keep that work moving forward. Just be more cautious when it comes to big game hunting. Make sure you have a team to invest in first.