Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[ScoutLife4]

That makes sense. Like I said, fill in the cheaper OA spots. Wakely won’t be cheap but compared to what the cost would be for a 19 year old with the same production makes Wakely a bargain.

I get what you are saying regarding Cooper and Mann. My only point is they should wait to see what type of team steps foot on the ice before blowing their brains out of top flight 19 year olds. That 19 year old may not make a difference if the rest of the team doesn’t step up. THAT is what kills careers, namely Cooper’s. I think he needs to take a more cautious approach.

I think he did very well in the Frasca deal. Same with Thibodeau. He is purging the players that either don’t want to be there or they don’t want to keep (or both). That’s good. Keep that work moving forward. Just be more cautious when it comes to big game hunting. Make sure you have a team to invest in first.

I don't completely disagree with slowing down but there is also some key issues that stand out to me that need addressing.
This 2nd pairing of Uens and McGowan just isn't near good enough to compete.
I'd like to see a D upgrade then the pause and wait and see on Wakely. -I do believe there is enough picks to do both. -Maybe they can Pawn Chromiak off to a team like Niagara that never cares if the team actually competes.

 

[OMG67]

I don't completely disagree with slowing down but there is also some key issues that stand out to me that need addressing.
This 2nd pairing of Uens and McGowan just isn't near good enough to compete.
I'd like to see a D upgrade then the pause and wait and see on Wakely. -I do believe there is enough picks to do both. -Maybe they can Pawn Chromiak off to a team like Niagara that never cares if the team actually competes.

Well, if a bag of cash follows Chromiak to Niagara……

 

[ScoutLife4]

Well, if a bag of cash follows Chromiak to Niagara……

This is exactly what i was thinking.

 

[leafs4life94]

Unrelated - I just watched the Futures Watch episode on the Fronts and a couple things stuck out

- From what Cooper said, it sounds like they expect Buttar to make the lineup this year
- High on both McQuaig and Kelly, especially McQuaig and mentioned both will have a chance to play regularly
- Still blowing smoke about doing what they can with Malhotra to recruit him

I also happened to notice Tanner Nettleton (4th) is listed as playing with the Windy City Storm 16U next year - is he a NCAA kid?

 

[frontsfan67]

Unrelated - I just watched the Futures Watch episode on the Fronts and a couple things stuck out

- From what Cooper said, it sounds like they expect Buttar to make the lineup this year
- High on both McQuaig and Kelly, especially McQuaig and mentioned both will have a chance to play regularly
- Still blowing smoke about doing what they can with Malhotra to recruit him

I also happened to notice Tanner Nettleton (4th) is listed as playing with the Windy City Storm 16U next year - is he a NCAA kid?

The malholtra thing I believe is just a media move. They know they’re not getting him to report.

If Mcquaig, Kelly, Buttar all make the lineup gotta assume that’s the 4th line and I assume they waive cavallin(inevitable anyways- he won’t be back as an OA unless he somehow turns into Gretzky this off season)

 

[zaluty]

Has Kieren Dervin committed to a NCAA program yet or is he still thinking things over?

 

[frontsfan67]

Has Kieren Dervin committed to a NCAA program yet or is he still thinking things over?

Committed to Penn state on his Instagram in November of last year

HOWEVER

His first year is 2026/2027 so 2 seasons from now. For now he is at st Andrew’s college.

 

[leafs4life94]

The malholtra thing I believe is just a media move. They know they’re not getting him to report.

If Mcquaig, Kelly, Buttar all make the lineup gotta assume that’s the 4th line and I assume they waive cavallin(inevitable anyways- he won’t be back as an OA unless he somehow turns into Gretzky this off season)

If (IMO a MASSIVE if, but possible they start the year like this way until they make more moves) they do go with the 3 16 year olds I don't want them all on the same line - I would rather have Buttar play with McNamara and Heyes on the 3rd line, then have McQuaig and Kelly play with Cavallin - an all 16 year old line would be exploited extremely easily

 

[ScoutLife4]

If (IMO a MASSIVE if, but possible they start the year like this way until they make more moves) they do go with the 3 16 year olds I don't want them all on the same line - I would rather have Buttar play with McNamara and Heyes on the 3rd line, then have McQuaig and Kelly play with Cavallin - an all 16 year old line would be exploited extremely easily

Keep in mind Heyes even returning is very much up in the air right now. -They are looking to fill that OA spot elsewhere.

 

[leafs4life94]

Keep in mind Heyes even returning is very much up in the air right now. -They are looking to fill that OA spot elsewhere.

Forward or D? I know you've mentioned Wakely but that's on hold pending him making not the AHL - are they looking somewhere else in the meantime or is it just expected that if he's back Wakely's the guy, and if he's not back it's Heyes/Plan B elsewhere?

 

[frontsfan67]

If (IMO a MASSIVE if, but possible they start the year like this way until they make more moves) they do go with the 3 16 year olds I don't want them all on the same line - I would rather have Buttar play with McNamara and Heyes on the 3rd line, then have McQuaig and Kelly play with Cavallin - an all 16 year old line would be exploited extremely easily

Weir will be better than Mcquaig, Buttar, Kelly. That’s why I said 4th line for those guys. Weir should have a year kind of how ludwinski was with his 17 year old year wright, Edmonds and all those guys. Good 3rd line player ready to make the jump when other players move on to better and brighter things.

Forward or D? I know you've mentioned Wakely but that's on hold pending him making not the AHL - are they looking somewhere else in the meantime or is it just expected that if he's back Wakely's the guy, and if he's not back it's Heyes/Plan B elsewhere?

Best available. Looking at wakely apparently but with Edmontons cap trouble they may bring guys up out of the AHL to play in the NHL and wakely could make Bakersfield because of it.

 

[leafs4life94]

Weir will be better than Mcquaig, Buttar, Kelly. That’s why I said 4th line for those guys. Weir should have a year kind of how ludwinski was with his 17 year old year wright, Edmonds and all those guys. Good 3rd line player ready to make the jump when other players move on to better and brighter things.

I don't know why but I keep forgetting about Weir - they don't have enough forwards to justify me forgetting about one of them....

Even then I think it's more likely Cavallin plays with two of them on a rotating basis rather than all three - I could be wrong but unless they're all extremely responsible as 16 year olds I'd rather have a vet in the middle with them.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Forward or D? I know you've mentioned Wakely but that's on hold pending him making not the AHL - are they looking somewhere else in the meantime or is it just expected that if he's back Wakely's the guy, and if he's not back it's Heyes/Plan B elsewhere?

Could be either.

 

[frontsfan67]

Even then I think it's more likely Cavallin plays with two of them on a rotating basis rather than all three - I could be wrong but unless they're all extremely responsible as 16 year olds I'd rather have a vet in the middle with them.

I agree. Probably would be Kelly that would have to play elsewhere for a year but then next year when I assume they sell guys off etc he should be on the roster. This may be better for his development anyways rather than being a 4th liner/13th forward

 

[dirty12]

In that case, I get you. Agreed. I could see it if they were eating one year, not two. But, I cannot see them keeping Cooper if shit hits the fan after trading away all their picks.
[/QUOTE



The #2 seed is wide open for Kingston to take. An all-in 2024-25 season for the Frontenacs has been in the works since pre-season 2022-23.

 

[OMG67]

@dirty12 You miss the point. It isn’t whether Kingston is capable. The question is whether they should blow their load now on players int he pre-season before first seeing if what they have will work as a core. They underachieved last year so it is jsut as likely they underachieve again this year. I am not saying that will happen. I am only saying they should probably take a more safe approach before blowing up their draft picks and younger players in an effort to build a tema on paper.

 

[OHL4Life]

Barlow trade now could not include the prize Parker Vaughan

two piece trade. everyone gets what they want and is happy

 

[OMG67]

two piece trade. everyone gets what they want and is happy

Are you suggesting Parker Vaughn goes to Owen Sound at the deadline in another trade?

 

[dirty12]

@dirty12 You miss the point. It isn’t whether Kingston is capable. The question is whether they should blow their load now on players int he pre-season before first seeing if what they have will work as a core. They underachieved last year so it is jsut as likely they underachieve again this year. I am not saying that will happen. I am only saying they should probably take a more safe approach before blowing up their draft picks and younger players in an effort to build a tema on paper.

Catch 22 perhaps, the core needs to be surrounded with complimentary talent to work.

 

[OMG67]

Catch 22 perhaps, the core needs to be surrounded with complimentary talent to work.

Maybe but if the core that includes 2 centres and a top pairing D plus a goalie isn’t showing promise, adding a D-Man and a winger won’t fix it. You need to augment a team with supporting players otherwise you are simply trying to engineer a team.

Again, I am not saying Kingston is going to flop. All I am saying is they should go out there in the first two months and be successful so the GM feels good about building around the good core.

There are times where you may be missing key pieces and you need to address them. For example, if you have one centre, you are screwed. You need two centres. If you don’t have a goalie then go get a goalie. I get it. But, IMO, Kingston isn’t missing a core player that is preventing them from being successful. If they pull out the stop sign and roll with what they have and they are struggling in November, adding a player or two won’t make a big difference. They need to be in the mix at the top of the Conference and make a deal that helps them jump above the competition, not catch them up.

 

[frontsfan67]

Maybe but if the core that includes 2 centres and a top pairing D plus a goalie isn’t showing promise, adding a D-Man and a winger won’t fix it. You need to augment a team with supporting players otherwise you are simply trying to engineer a team.

Again, I am not saying Kingston is going to flop. All I am saying is they should go out there in the first two months and be successful so the GM feels good about building around the good core.

There are times where you may be missing key pieces and you need to address them. For example, if you have one centre, you are screwed. You need two centres. If you don’t have a goalie then go get a goalie. I get it. But, IMO, Kingston isn’t missing a core player that is preventing them from being successful. If they pull out the stop sign and roll with what they have and they are struggling in November, adding a player or two won’t make a big difference. They need to be in the mix at the top of the Conference and make a deal that helps them jump above the competition, not catch them up.

I believe we are all underrating the fact that this is manns first offseason. May take time for players adjusting to new systems similar to how that usually happens around Christmas time. If they get certain players now they still have a month with Mann in this off season before the regular season starts.

Why wait for the inevitable? They know this is their year for contention. If players are the same price right now that they would be in October/November what is the point in waiting and potentially giving up points early on in the season.

 

[OMG67]

I believe we are all underrating the fact that this is manns first offseason. May take time for players adjusting to new systems similar to how that usually happens around Christmas time. If they get certain players now they still have a month with Mann in this off season before the regular season starts.

Why wait for the inevitable? They know this is their year for contention. If players are the same price right now that they would be in October/November what is the point in waiting and potentially giving up points early on in the season.

As I mentioned previously, there is a risk mitigation factor involved. The team last season underperformed. By all accounts, I think everyone on here expected more, especially post deadline. With pending graduations, outgoing players through trade and last year’s team underperforming, I have not seen anything that suggests they are a sure shot contender other than they have a bunch of older players.

I have zero issues with filling in the OA slots. Taht makes sense. They have had a couple outgoing players (Frasca and Thibodeau) so I can see maybe flipping those picks to fill a few more gaps.

Where I think they need to draw the line is on high priced acquisitions that are one year players, at least for now. Go out there and let the players earn the acquisitions. I think it would be reckless for Cooper to go out and pay huge acquisition costs on this team without first knowing the core is ok.

Barrie is in the same boat IMO. I think they are good on paper as well but all these moves pre-season before they hit the ice is premature. Brampton is at least returning their whole roster core from last year. They can at least point to year over year development improvement on their entire roster as a means to justify their lofty status as contenders. I don’t think Kingston can do the same. Too many losses from last year and a lot of gaps to fill.

I think the chances are better than not that Kingston will perform at a much higher level this year. I like Mann a lot and I think once he weeds out the players that don’t suit his system and culture, things will improve for the better but I wouldn’t bet my job on it. That is what Cooper would be doing if he were to empty his draft cabinet in the preseason and the team doesn’t turn out as expected. His head would get lopped off going into next season with no draft picks, a 1st or 2nd round playoff exit as the 4th/5th seed, and a big batch of graduating players.

 

[frontsfan67]

As I mentioned previously, there is a risk mitigation factor involved. The team last season underperformed. By all accounts, I think everyone on here expected more, especially post deadline.

Don’t believe much was expected. All the smart ones knew Oshawa, Ottawa, Brantford would finish higher than us- just a matter of who going where. Was also clear Sudbury and north bay would too. Mississauga was and still is better than us. Don’t think anyone really expected them to finish above any of those teams. Believe they potentially COULD have won a round if they played Ottawa first round rather than North Bay who went to the east finals and lost in 7 games with a depleted team but that was literally the only team they could’ve beat in a 7 game series last year.

With pending graduations, outgoing players through trade and last year’s team underperforming, I have not seen anything that suggests they are a sure shot contender other than they have a bunch of older players.

Okay for starters, burns and Miedema had down year last year. They’ll be much better this year. Have heard kingston expects big things out of uens. Battaglia will be better and probably around 90 points, Soto will be better this year maybe around 70-80 points and I assume will be line 1 with battaglia.

Hopkins will be a good contributor this year. Also has bulked up 25lbs since his draft. Has a TON of potential- could be similar to marek Vanacker this year. Not saying he will be as good- that’ll be tough to beat but they have some similar tools.

Weir should be a solid contributor on the 3rd line, McNamara will be better especially with a second or third nhl camp under his belt.

Vaccari will be a year older and better, and who is going to be his 1B goalie? The goalie that just played backup on the memorial cup winning Saginaw spirit. VERY stable goaltending this year- something that was missed last year.

They will be getting the best OA available for that final OA spot. Ludwinski has a chance of coming back too. If ludwinski comes back that is even better for the fronts- they don’t need to waste draft picks potentially acquiring a better OA 1C pushing Guindon who would be the 1 on most other teams down to line#2 and can use those picks to fill out the defence if they feel it is needed.

All in all- it’s looking FAR more promising this year than last. Last year they also started out as one of the worst teams in the league under Caputi- had the team picked already when Mann came- then under a new coach some of our better players weren’t a fan of him so that’s great to have for 50-60 games(NOT)

They got rid of the disgruntled players except for maybe 1?? But that player apparently isn’t forcing their way out like Thibodeau and Frasca

With the picks they got for Thibodeau and frasca. They’ll be using those picks to build the roster and get upgrades and people that want to play there. Seems like a way healthier environment

 

[OMG67]

Don’t believe much was expected. All the smart ones knew Oshawa, Ottawa, Brantford would finish higher than us- just a matter of who going where. Was also clear Sudbury and north bay would too. Mississauga was and still is better than us. Don’t think anyone really expected them to finish above any of those teams. Believe they potentially COULD have won a round if they played Ottawa first round rather than North Bay who went to the east finals and lost in 7 games with a depleted team but that was literally the only team they could’ve beat in a 7 game series last year.

Okay for starters, burns and Miedema had down year last year. They’ll be much better this year. Have heard kingston expects big things out of uens. Battaglia will be better and probably around 90 points, Soto will be better this year maybe around 70-80 points and I assume will be line 1 with battaglia.

Hopkins will be a good contributor this year. Also has bulked up 25lbs since his draft. Has a TON of potential- could be similar to marek Vanacker this year. Not saying he will be as good- that’ll be tough to beat but they have some similar tools.

Weir should be a solid contributor on the 3rd line, McNamara will be better especially with a second or third nhl camp under his belt.

Vaccari will be a year older and better, and who is going to be his 1B goalie? The goalie that just played backup on the memorial cup winning Saginaw spirit. VERY stable goaltending this year- something that was missed last year.

They will be getting the best OA available for that final OA spot. Ludwinski has a chance of coming back too. If ludwinski comes back that is even better for the fronts- they don’t need to waste draft picks potentially acquiring a better OA 1C pushing Guindon who would be the 1 on most other teams down to line#2 and can use those picks to fill out the defence if they feel it is needed.

All in all- it’s looking FAR more promising this year than last. Last year they also started out as one of the worst teams in the league under Caputi- had the team picked already when Mann came- then under a new coach some of our better players weren’t a fan of him so that’s great to have for 50-60 games(NOT)

They got rid of the disgruntled players except for maybe 1?? But that player apparently isn’t forcing their way out like Thibodeau and Frasca

With the picks they got for Thibodeau and frasca. They’ll be using those picks to build the roster and get upgrades and people that want to play there. Seems like a way healthier environment

There are a lot of “should be better” lines in there. I agree they should but let them go out and prove it and THEN add big pieces.

If Ludwinski returns, then I agree, I would be more comfortable making a big splash pre-season but he won’t return until after the OHL Season starts.

Any talk of going out there and getting Andonvski prior to the start of the season seems silly to me.

 

[OHL4Life]

Are you suggesting Parker Vaughn goes to Owen Sound at the deadline in another trade?

I’m saying g that would be a work around if they decide to do it