Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[OMG67]

I’m saying g that would be a work around if they decide to do it

How does the league evaluate those types of deals? Wouldn’t the two deals need to stand alone on their own?

 

[zaluty]

Wow, what a Monday for trades thru the league. What will tomorrow look like lol.

 

[dirty12]

Maybe but if the core that includes 2 centres and a top pairing D plus a goalie isn’t showing promise, adding a D-Man and a winger won’t fix it. You need to augment a team with supporting players otherwise you are simply trying to engineer a team.

Again, I am not saying Kingston is going to flop. All I am saying is they should go out there in the first two months and be successful so the GM feels good about building around the good core.

There are times where you may be missing key pieces and you need to address them. For example, if you have one centre, you are screwed. You need two centres. If you don’t have a goalie then go get a goalie. I get it. But, IMO, Kingston isn’t missing a core player that is preventing them from being successful. If they pull out the stop sign and roll with what they have and they are struggling in November, adding a player or two won’t make a big difference. They need to be in the mix at the top of the Conference and make a deal that helps them jump above the competition, not catch them up.

Actually, a ‘core’ complimentary forward is sorely missing imo. If a true #1 centre cannot be had, at least an offensive threat that compliments Battaglia is needed.
While I think Battaglia-McNamara-Uronen could be a good line, I think Battaglia would be better as the top RW and the other two part of a great 3rd line.

 

[OHL4Life]

How does the league evaluate those types of deals? Wouldn’t the two deals need to stand alone on their own?

if it’s two different trades what can they do

 

[OMG67]

if it’s two different trades what can they do

I think what I meant is they can’t trade a 2nd round pick on January 2nd for Parker Vaughn. They’d need to devise two trades that were reasonable, no?

 

[OHL4Life]

I think what I meant is they can’t trade a 2nd round pick on January 2nd for Parker Vaughn. They’d need to devise two trades that were reasonable, no?

sure, that’s why the second trade will be fair value.

 

[OMG67]

sure, that’s why the second trade will be fair value.

What is fair value for Parker Vaughn other than Colby Barlow? Ben Cormier and Connor Smith?

I think the point is Parker Vaughn being traded at the deadline for a ball of soap chips (anything less than Barlow or some other crazy package would be a ball of soap chips), it would look fishy. If the league were to let that happen then they may as well allow teams to trade 16 year olds at will at any time. Why try to veil it?

 

[OHL4Life]

What is fair value for Parker Vaughn other than Colby Barlow? Ben Cormier and Connor Smith?

I think the point is Parker Vaughn being traded at the deadline for a ball of soap chips (anything less than Barlow or some other crazy package would be a ball of soap chips), it would look fishy. If the league were to let that happen then they may as well allow teams to trade 16 year olds at will at any time. Why try to veil it?

doesn’t 80 percent of the trades that Niagara make look fishy?

 

[OMG67]

doesn’t 80 percent of the trades that Niagara make look fishy?

Not that fishy!

 

[three dog night]

doesn’t 80 percent of the trades that Niagara make look fishy?

They have to have a trading partner I believe most is over educational packages

 

[OHL4Life]

They have to have a trading partner I believe most is over educational packages

it’s not, frolov wasn’t a top package. It was all an agent manipulation. Same agent that always makes decisions for Niagara.

 

[beastintheeast]

With Boudreau, Mann and Cameron this off-season is about layers tht want out saying so and coaches that have a different style getting rid of the players that are going to be poison in the dressing room.

This is going to be a possibly make-or-break year for these 3 coaches and possibly in Kington and Ottawa threw GMs. so it should be interesting.

 

[PuckLucker]

Don’t believe much was expected. All the smart ones knew Oshawa, Ottawa, Brantford would finish higher than us- just a matter of who going where. Was also clear Sudbury and north bay would too. Mississauga was and still is better than us. Don’t think anyone really expected them to finish above any of those teams. Believe they potentially COULD have won a round if they played Ottawa first round rather than North Bay who went to the east finals and lost in 7 games with a depleted team but that was literally the only team they could’ve beat in a 7 game series last year.

Okay for starters, burns and Miedema had down year last year. They’ll be much better this year. Have heard kingston expects big things out of uens. Battaglia will be better and probably around 90 points, Soto will be better this year maybe around 70-80 points and I assume will be line 1 with battaglia.

Hopkins will be a good contributor this year. Also has bulked up 25lbs since his draft. Has a TON of potential- could be similar to marek Vanacker this year. Not saying he will be as good- that’ll be tough to beat but they have some similar tools.

Weir should be a solid contributor on the 3rd line, McNamara will be better especially with a second or third nhl camp under his belt.

Vaccari will be a year older and better, and who is going to be his 1B goalie? The goalie that just played backup on the memorial cup winning Saginaw spirit. VERY stable goaltending this year- something that was missed last year.

They will be getting the best OA available for that final OA spot. Ludwinski has a chance of coming back too. If ludwinski comes back that is even better for the fronts- they don’t need to waste draft picks potentially acquiring a better OA 1C pushing Guindon who would be the 1 on most other teams down to line#2 and can use those picks to fill out the defence if they feel it is needed.

All in all- it’s looking FAR more promising this year than last. Last year they also started out as one of the worst teams in the league under Caputi- had the team picked already when Mann came- then under a new coach some of our better players weren’t a fan of him so that’s great to have for 50-60 games(NOT)

They got rid of the disgruntled players except for maybe 1?? But that player apparently isn’t forcing their way out like Thibodeau and Frasca

With the picks they got for Thibodeau and frasca. They’ll be using those picks to build the roster and get upgrades and people that want to play there. Seems like a way healthier environment

This post has way too much optimism in my view.

If last years team was slightly above .500 hockey (Especially with the trade deadline acquisitions, why will the 2024-2025 season be FAR more promising?

Outgoing:
Ludwinski
Thibodeau
Hemstrom
Frasca
Dubois
Schmidt
Holmes
Poole (Likely)
Chromiak (Likely)
Salajko (Likely)

Incoming:
Guindon
Uronen
Lalonde
Kelly
Weir
Buttar

That outgoing Fwd group put up somewhere around 240 points. I know they will use draft picks to add additional players but the Fronts are going to need more offense and a couple more defensemen. Coach Mann doesn't play the younger players much

Does Pieniniemi arrive next week before going to the Pens camp? Any social media announcement?
I'm not on FB.

 

[frontsfan67]

This post has way too much optimism in my view.

From what I’ve heard. Fronts are pretty optimistic about certain players too.

If last years team was slightly above .500 hockey (Especially with the trade deadline acquisitions, why will the 2024-2025 season be FAR more promising?

Outgoing:
Ludwinski
Thibodeau
Hemstrom
Frasca
Dubois
Schmidt
Holmes
Poole (Likely)
Chromiak (Likely)
Salajko (Likely)

Incoming:
Guindon
Uronen
Lalonde
Kelly
Weir
Buttar

That outgoing Fwd group put up somewhere around 240 points. I know they will use draft picks to add additional players but the Fronts are going to need more offense and a couple more defensemen. Coach Mann doesn't play the younger players much

Oddly enough they’re looking at someone that will put up pretty close to half of that this year himself. Guindon and Uronen I’d expect both to be around or above a ppg.

Also one of the most underrated moves this whole off season is getting Lalonde from the memorial cup champs. Now vaccari and him have a good 1a, 1b and vaccari won’t need to play 60 games. Should also be better defensively.

Does Pieniniemi arrive next week before going to the Pens camp? Any social media announcement?
I'm not on FB.

Pieniniemi won’t be here for training camp but is confirmed coming. Expect sometime in September for him to be signed.

They also have a lot of picks to go out and get some impact players. Would expect atleast 1 great d man even if they have to over pay for him (along with pie coming)

 

[OMG67]

This post has way too much optimism in my view.

If last years team was slightly above .500 hockey (Especially with the trade deadline acquisitions, why will the 2024-2025 season be FAR more promising?

Outgoing:
Ludwinski
Thibodeau
Hemstrom
Frasca
Dubois
Schmidt
Holmes
Poole (Likely)
Chromiak (Likely)
Salajko (Likely)

Incoming:
Guindon
Uronen
Lalonde
Kelly
Weir
Buttar

That outgoing Fwd group put up somewhere around 240 points. I know they will use draft picks to add additional players but the Fronts are going to need more offense and a couple more defensemen. Coach Mann doesn't play the younger players much

Does Pieniniemi arrive next week before going to the Pens camp? Any social media announcement?
I'm not on FB.

I agree with this. I do feel Kingston will be better but the entire top of the conference will be better so the gap still remains.

If we ONLY look at Brampton, they lose Loukus, Sharpe and Boudreau. That is a total of 48 goals. They added Rehkopf and Sova for a total of 62 goals. So, even without factoring in year over year improvement, they actually added 14 goals with players in vs players out. They drafted Martin Vaculik out of Czechia and he will likely line up as a top 9 RW as a ‘06. They have an open OA slot as well so they will be able to add another key forward. They have two elite goalies and if they decide to move one of them (likely), they have more assets to use there.

So, whatever gap existed last season between Kingston and Mississauga, the gap has widened significantly. Brampton will likely add 50+ goals on top of last year and will potentially get better on goals against. They will probably be +100 goal differential. Kingston starts at -25. Even if they improve 75 goals, they are still 50 goals behind Brampton in goal differential.

Just because the roster construction suggests it is a competitive window doesn’t mean you have to make a run at all costs. Sometimes you get lucky in timing and sometimes not so much. Unfortunately, this is one of those not so much situations.

EDIT:
This isn’t me trying to discredit Kingston. IT is way more about pumping Brampton’s tires. I really think they are going to end up as a juggernaut this season.

 

[leafs4life94]

I agree with this. I do feel Kingston will be better but the entire top of the conference will be better so the gap still remains.

If we ONLY look at Brampton, they lose Loukus, Sharpe and Boudreau. That is a total of 48 goals. They added Rehkopf and Sova for a total of 62 goals. So, even without factoring in year over year improvement, they actually added 14 goals with players in vs players out. They drafted Martin Vaculik out of Czechia and he will likely line up as a top 9 RW as a ‘06. They have an open OA slot as well so they will be able to add another key forward. They have two elite goalies and if they decide to move one of them (likely), they have more assets to use there.

So, whatever gap existed last season between Kingston and Mississauga, the gap has widened significantly. Brampton will likely add 50+ goals on top of last year and will potentially get better on goals against. They will probably be +100 goal differential. Kingston starts at -25. Even if they improve 75 goals, they are still 50 goals behind Brampton in goal differential.

Just because the roster construction suggests it is a competitive window doesn’t mean you have to make a run at all costs. Sometimes you get lucky in timing and sometimes not so much. Unfortunately, this is one of those not so much situations.

The big issue is they have nothing to build on from the 2022 draft - they only have Battaglia and Williamson as regular OHLers and Williamson is most likely a 3rd pair guy, so you're shoving the rock down the road at least 2 years again. Next year pretty much has to be a sell year - whatever 05s return as OAs will likely some of the better OAs (Miedema and Soto in particular) available, and assuming Battaglia continues to develop should be one of the top 06s available, and then depending on the returns rebuild around Hopkins' 19 year old year - which is still up in there how successful the 2023 draft will turnout to be (Hopkins should be good, Weir is up in the air but has shown promise and I'm really high on Velliaris but he's still only palyed 10 games).

Even though it does suck that Brampton is loading up and definitely has an advantage over Kingston at this point, this has been their scheduled go for it year - even though they should've fully committed and moved Ludwinski last year.

At some point they've just gotta say F it and go for it no matter what's happening around the league - and it actually looks like this year might be it.

 

[OMG67]

The big issue is they have nothing to build on from the 2022 draft - they only have Battaglia and Williamson as regular OHLers and Williamson is most likely a 3rd pair guy, so you're shoving the rock down the road at least 2 years again. Next year pretty much has to be a sell year - whatever 05s return as OAs will likely some of the better OAs (Miedema and Soto in particular) available, and assuming Battaglia continues to develop should be one of the top 06s available, and then depending on the returns rebuild around Hopkins' 19 year old year - which is still up in there how successful the 2023 draft will turnout to be (Hopkins should be good, Weir is up in the air but has shown promise and I'm really high on Velliaris but he's still only palyed 10 games).

Even though it does suck that Brampton is loading up and definitely has an advantage over Kingston at this point, this has been their scheduled go for it year - even though they should've fully committed and moved Ludwinski last year.

At some point they've just gotta say F it and go for it no matter what's happening around the league - and it actually looks like this year might be it.

There is nothing wrong with filling some gaps cheaply and stay somewhat competitive. I am not saying they should sell off. They can be a good team, finish in the 4/5 seed and allow Mann to start instilling some sustained stability. Next year you can do a small selloff but selling one or two players won’t annihilate a team. They can still stay above .500. Meanwhile, you continue to push assets forward.

Hypothetically speaking, Kingston could very well say F it and make a run this year. Fine. But that means they have to do it for real, not half assed. That means next year there are no draft picks remaining in the 2nd to 5th rounds. Basically a full on Petes style buy/sell program. Even after doing that, they would still likely not be considered in the top 2 of the Conference. Likely would not make it out of round 2. All of that for what? It is not like the Fronts have much value for trade other than draft picks. They won’t trade Hopkins. Who is left that is expendable that has any significant value?

I see them being able to add Wakely and one more key player. So, two guys. Maybe they spread the wealth and get tow solid depth players plus Wakely.

So, hypothetically speaking, let’s say they do all that and end up bowing out in round 2. They go into next season with nothing to show for the assets moved out other than one playoff round win. They have Battaglia to sell off, maybe Williamson if he manages to not get traded this season. It would be pretty bleak.

Stay competitive yer over year. Push assets forward when it makes sense. When a window opens, shoot through it.

 

[dirty12]

I agree with this. I do feel Kingston will be better but the entire top of the conference will be better so the gap still remains.

If we ONLY look at Brampton, they lose Loukus, Sharpe and Boudreau. That is a total of 48 goals. They added Rehkopf and Sova for a total of 62 goals. So, even without factoring in year over year improvement, they actually added 14 goals with players in vs players out. They drafted Martin Vaculik out of Czechia and he will likely line up as a top 9 RW as a ‘06. They have an open OA slot as well so they will be able to add another key forward. They have two elite goalies and if they decide to move one of them (likely), they have more assets to use there.

So, whatever gap existed last season between Kingston and Mississauga, the gap has widened significantly. Brampton will likely add 50+ goals on top of last year and will potentially get better on goals against. They will probably be +100 goal differential. Kingston starts at -25. Even if they improve 75 goals, they are still 50 goals behind Brampton in goal differential.

Just because the roster construction suggests it is a competitive window doesn’t mean you have to make a run at all costs. Sometimes you get lucky in timing and sometimes not so much. Unfortunately, this is one of those not so much situations.

EDIT:
This isn’t me trying to discredit Kingston. IT is way more about pumping Brampton’s tires. I really think they are going to end up as a juggernaut this season.

The east division and #2 seed cannot be had by Barrie or Brampton. At this time neither of Oshawa or Brantford is as good as last season.

 

[OMG67]

The east division and #2 seed cannot be had by Barrie or Brampton. At this time neither of Oshawa or Brantford is as good as last season.

#2 seed loses to the #3 seed in round 2 when the #3 seed is 25 points ahead of them in the standings….

 

[dirty12]

There is nothing wrong with filling some gaps cheaply and stay somewhat competitive. I am not saying they should sell off. They can be a good team, finish in the 4/5 seed and allow Mann to start instilling some sustained stability. Next year you can do a small selloff but selling one or two players won’t annihilate a team. They can still stay above .500. Meanwhile, you continue to push assets forward.

Hypothetically speaking, Kingston could very well say F it and make a run this year. Fine. But that means they have to do it for real, not half assed. That means next year there are no draft picks remaining in the 2nd to 5th rounds. Basically a full on Petes style buy/sell program. Even after doing that, they would still likely not be considered in the top 2 of the Conference. Likely would not make it out of round 2. All of that for what? It is not like the Fronts have much value for trade other than draft picks. They won’t trade Hopkins. Who is left that is expendable that has any significant value?

I see them being able to add Wakely and one more key player. So, two guys. Maybe they spread the wealth and get tow solid depth players plus Wakely.

So, hypothetically speaking, let’s say they do all that and end up bowing out in round 2. They go into next season with nothing to show for the assets moved out other than one playoff round win. They have Battaglia to sell off, maybe Williamson if he manages to not get traded this season. It would be pretty bleak.

Stay competitive yer over year. Push assets forward when it makes sense. When a window opens, shoot through it.

Two first picks and Battaglia to trade is not bleak.
Going for it is the best option imo. If Wakely does go to Kingston, they are the east favourite, by a lot I think.

#2 seed loses to the #3 seed in round 2 when the #3 seed is 25 points ahead of them in the standings….

Barrie or Brampton lose their top scorer and goalie by game two of the playoffs; it happens.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Two first picks and Battaglia to trade is not bleak.
Going for it is the best option imo. If Wakely does go to Kingston, they are the east favourite, by a lot I think.



Barrie or Brampton lose their top scorer and goalie by game two of the playoffs; it happens.

If Kingston can find a way to improve that 2nd pairing and add a top 6 C like Wakely they are going to be very strong.
They have the picks to do it.

 

[dirty12]

If Kingston can find a way to improve that 2nd pairing and add a top 6 C like Wakely they are going to be very strong.
They have the picks to do it.

Wakely would be the #1 centre out against the top lines in the league, PP1, PK1, while providing experience and leadership.

 

[OHL4Life]

The big issue is they have nothing to build on from the 2022 draft - they only have Battaglia and Williamson as regular OHLers and Williamson is most likely a 3rd pair guy, so you're shoving the rock down the road at least 2 years again. Next year pretty much has to be a sell year - whatever 05s return as OAs will likely some of the better OAs (Miedema and Soto in particular) available, and assuming Battaglia continues to develop should be one of the top 06s available, and then depending on the returns rebuild around Hopkins' 19 year old year - which is still up in there how successful the 2023 draft will turnout to be (Hopkins should be good, Weir is up in the air but has shown promise and I'm really high on Velliaris but he's still only palyed 10 games).

Even though it does suck that Brampton is loading up and definitely has an advantage over Kingston at this point, this has been their scheduled go for it year - even though they should've fully committed and moved Ludwinski last year.

At some point they've just gotta say F it and go for it no matter what's happening around the league - and it actually looks like this year might be it.

they made big errors in the last 12 months.

drafting malholtra was a massive miss. One big trade chip that now becomes useless.

Not moving Ludwinski last year. Could have pocketed enough picks for Guindon and another good OA D and saved the other picks for 05s. Even the Jax Dupuis trade seemed a year early

 

[ScoutLife4]

they made big errors in the last 12 months.

drafting malholtra was a massive miss. One big trade chip that now becomes useless.

Not moving Ludwinski last year. Could have pocketed enough picks for Guindon and another good OA D and saved the other picks for 05s. Even the Jax Dupuis trade seemed a year early

Is Maholtra that big of one though if they were supposed to compete this season and now have 2 first rounders next season to rebuild? -Everyone is saying they have nothing to build on but they will have 2 first round picks and be able to move Battaglia, Soto and even Burns for his OA year.

That would bring a huge return in picks.
Maybe Miedema has a big season and becomes a big trade chip too?
Lots can change over the course of a season.

Not moving Ludwinski is imo one of the biggest i've seen.
Some may say there may be an advantage to having 2 same age first rounders come up together for the full OHL tenure.

 

[zaluty]

Are they still after Mews?