It's one thing to take a flier on a guy like that, it's another to move your second best winger to get him. Kreider is a legitimate first line player, one of the better power forwards in the league. If the Rangers trade him, they could and should be able to get more. Otherwise hold on to him until the deadline and maybe you get two teams involved and drive the price up a bit.
Speculation: Keeping Ck
- Thread starter Jayan
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It's one thing to take a flier on a guy like that, it's another to move your second best winger to get him. Kreider is a legitimate first line player, one of the better power forwards in the league. If the Rangers trade him, they could and should be able to get more. Otherwise hold on to him until the deadline and maybe you get two teams involved and drive the price up a bit.
With the wing depth the team has fairly recently amassed, I think it'd be foolhardy to add another big $ commitment there -- not so much in the immediate future, but it'll certainly be a problem long-term.
The Rangers are just starting to stand up a capable defense and still have major question marks behind Zibanejad at center. Trade Kreider and tailor the assets/cap space to those areas.
The Rangers are just starting to stand up a capable defense and still have major question marks behind Zibanejad at center. Trade Kreider and tailor the assets/cap space to those areas.
Kreider may be the most frustrating player I've ever seen. He goes hard to the net some games and other games you would never know he's even playing. It's almost like he could be a point per game player, but he's ok with just being average. No way I'm giving a guy like that 7X7
anyone, everyone can be dealt, in theory, but reality does not always fit that abstract.
DEF Kreider should be extended 5 yrs 6.2 per min NTC, zero NMC.
How to pay?
Namestnikov - just unload he's not worth it and he eats mins from others who are the real core.
5th or even 6th round if they eat all 4m
3rd if we retain half
Smith
also not a fan, not worth mins he takes from the core. We need to give 4th line W mins to gettinger, and depth mins to emerging LDs.
There is a narrow option here 1 step backwards to wind up 2 steps forward, which we should not be greedy and just take.
Smith at half to LV
for
Holden and Merrill both expiring at full pop. Deal gives LV almost 1.5 this year but rids us of Smith before next year.
Holden, Merril, more easily sold off piecemeal, otherwise ship to the A.
Staal
There is no solution for Staal.
I said, no NMCs, period, ever anyone, and this is why.
Unless he retires or relents, we have zero options. We don't have to play him but that is not the problem, he is serviceable enuf as 3LD or a 7th. The prob is the 5.7 cap hit.
We HAD a chance, Staal at half for Marleau at full pop.
That ship has sailed.
Best/only chance may be if compliance buyouts get here in time for next year.
Strome
I like what he's done but we also takes away mins from the core. We need to have Quinn focus on an essential core. I don't give a rat's ass if we are one or two guys thin. Deal Strome types, play Gettinger types. Develop the core, purge excess vets.
Supposedly Boston is looking for 3C.
Strome + X ___________ [later pick]
for
[maybe JFK] + boston first, even if deferred
JUST DO IT
Alternative, ship Strome out to CGY with Georgiev.
However, I think we maybe able to tell Flames, look, Geo is worth 2nd plus closer to a late 1st and is terrif partner with Talbot, also a Benny Allaire student.
Scratch my back on taking Namest and I'll give you Geo for a 2nd.
Shattenkirk there is a pt there also, but he came here for less and it was not his fault he got injured, and worse, that idiot AV win now played him during injury.
I see him as 3RD/depth guy who can slide to left side.
If we are fully screwed, he MIGHT do us a favor and retire and wink wink, take a cushy consultant's job.
We need to move Skjei and his 5+ to Canadiens
If Flyers offer 1st for Deangelo, is that enuf? Yes.
Want picks for next yrs draft? NOW is the time to do these types of moves to acquire.
Buch is another one.
He is not Namest deadwood.
There is a price point on him, and a trade value on him.
We should carefully consider what he gets, and trade value.
respectfully, have an open mind on Zib at RW instead of pivot, playing with CK which we know for a fact has worked.
An elite talent line KK - Krav - Pana
followed by a speed line CK - Nieves - Zib
very strong. all pieces complementary.
Pushes depth in Chytil to third line.
move the excess vets/$
if we move CK at all it should be coupla years from now not now
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think it's an incredibly slim possibility that the Rangers will commit $19 million to a pair of wingers.
Also taking into account that CK's next contract is likely to have an even more expansive movement clause.
Also taking into account that CK's next contract is likely to have an even more expansive movement clause.
That kinda reminds me of the '15 Lightning with the Stamkos line and the Triplets Line
I'm okay with holding onto him until the trade deadline since I believe that will be the maximal point of return in a trade.
He can help the team until the TDL for the games he shows up for. Since he's playing for a contract, I expect him two show up for 9 out of every 11 games instead of the standard 6-7 out of 11 that he usually does.
That should result in an increase market valuation for his services on his next contract as well as a trade chip for the Rangers.
Now if the Rangers can't move out Names & others, then I would prioritize moving Kreider this summer.
I personally wouldn't put a letter on a player who lacks effort. I think that is setting a poor cultural standard. So I'd strip the A as well and give it to a guy that doesn't speak English but shows up every game.
He can help the team until the TDL for the games he shows up for. Since he's playing for a contract, I expect him two show up for 9 out of every 11 games instead of the standard 6-7 out of 11 that he usually does.
That should result in an increase market valuation for his services on his next contract as well as a trade chip for the Rangers.
Now if the Rangers can't move out Names & others, then I would prioritize moving Kreider this summer.
I personally wouldn't put a letter on a player who lacks effort. I think that is setting a poor cultural standard. So I'd strip the A as well and give it to a guy that doesn't speak English but shows up every game.
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
I don't know what 'legitimate first line player' even means. He is a low-end first liner / high-end second liner. He has cracked 50 points twice and never scored 30. He goes invisible for long stretches still. He has had some serious injury concerns in recent years. He is a UFA to be and is about to get paid long-term, most of which will take place on the wrong side of 30.
Kevin Hayes was a better overall player, at a more premium position, and he returned about the same package. Because Kreider is on our team, people severely overrate him. A first and decent prospect is about the best we can expect.
The option of keeping him is not realistic. It would be even dumber in light of Panarin and Kakko. We just drafted an elite, big body winger. He is a perfect replacement for everything Kreider brings. People saying he can't be replaced, he can.
If we were to pay Kreider long-term, we would undoubtedly pay for it in the future when we lose multiple young players who develop into legitimate NHL players. Kreider is going to get paid for seven years, and every single player on the rost, sans Panarin and Trouba, will need a raise in that time. Every.Single.One.
You don’t know what a legitimate first liner means but you do know what a low-end first high-end second means? Huh? Kevin Hayes is a center so I’m not getting the comparison. And I think you severely underrate what Kreider brings to a team, but that’s ok. It’s a shame guys don’t get credit for screens because they scored an awful lot of goals last season when he screened the goalie. But I never said don’t trade him. I said make the right trade. I’m ok with trading him just not for a total bust coming off hip surgery. Because OMG he was picked 4 OA.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
there is momentum here now to make the playoffs.
JD is here. quinns 2nd yr. there is some stability now. the rebuild is now a playoff retool for this year.
panarin. kakko. trouba kravtsov and fox all new faces but all either proven players or high end high impact talented kids expected to play right away.
there is buzz on broadway.
the defense is better. pionk gone. jake and adam ready to go.
hank and georgie seem like a solid tandem with shesty here now and ready to step in. depth.
gorton sees the hole in the middle. howden fast start then fell off the cliff. chytl better on the edge ? now hes on line 3 where he belongs. andersson line 4. strome and names.... until one is moved. there is depth to slot guys into appropriate spots. this team is more talented and deeper.
chris kreider can be- must be- moved to add a centerman whos ready to play the 2C with talented wingers. this team wants to compete now. the brass thinks they can. things have changed.
luck, a prized FA who wanted to come here, an injection of home grown talent, and 2 excellent value trades have changed the landscape.
kreider can be moved to address a need right now and in the future. he has no future here. hes as good as gone.
JD is here. quinns 2nd yr. there is some stability now. the rebuild is now a playoff retool for this year.
panarin. kakko. trouba kravtsov and fox all new faces but all either proven players or high end high impact talented kids expected to play right away.
there is buzz on broadway.
the defense is better. pionk gone. jake and adam ready to go.
hank and georgie seem like a solid tandem with shesty here now and ready to step in. depth.
gorton sees the hole in the middle. howden fast start then fell off the cliff. chytl better on the edge ? now hes on line 3 where he belongs. andersson line 4. strome and names.... until one is moved. there is depth to slot guys into appropriate spots. this team is more talented and deeper.
chris kreider can be- must be- moved to add a centerman whos ready to play the 2C with talented wingers. this team wants to compete now. the brass thinks they can. things have changed.
luck, a prized FA who wanted to come here, an injection of home grown talent, and 2 excellent value trades have changed the landscape.
kreider can be moved to address a need right now and in the future. he has no future here. hes as good as gone.
What team is giving the Rangers a young, cost controlled center for one year of Kreider? That’s gonna cost Buch and probably another young player. Why not just see what they have in a Chytil or Anderson or Howden?
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
this team wants to win now.
howden fell off the planet last yr
chytl looks like a young power winger
andersson hasn't shown anything so far. nothing.
kreider is the chip. if there needs to be an add, we add. keeping kreider and overplaying the hand isnt gonna happen.
finding a true pivot who can handle the 2C minutes is paramount. thats the glaring hole in the roster right now.
kadri would have looked good here.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,556
- 19,249
Personally I'm willing to give Strome, Chytil, Howden, and maybe Kravtsov a chance as a 2c before I panic and unload for one. I also feel Morgan Baron is close if we can pry him outta school next year. However I'm pretty much convinced that Kreider is moving so if we can get a cost controlled 2c out of it sign me up, I just dont see that deal being made.
GunkWinger
Registered User
I dont see where management has said they want to win now. Everything I've heard is that if they compete for a spot next year that's great. But they seem perfectly fine letting the kids grow for a year or two as Panarin will still b in his prime when they are ready.
I disagree. They spent their two, first round picks of the 16 draft on centers. One of them has to hit. Kreider should return a kreider type player. You need someone like that in your top 6 otherwise they become too one dimensional
i'd be happy to be wrong...i think its a given that he'll get traded but that doesn't mean I want him gone. i'd be very interested in keeping him on a shorter deal
Yeah it was, but I wouldn't give him 7x7 either.
If he wants to stay, take the Zucc deal.
That’s fair but I get sick of people saying kreider is lazy. The kid played with a blood clot and still came back a lot sooner than most. He was having a great year this year but then got hurt and played through the injury while getting criticized
Im really hoping this next CBA has some sort of variation on the Larry Bird rule. I think it would be a great idea if you got a reduced hit on guys you brought into the league and have stayed with your team. I ha e been saying it for years and finally heard someone say it on one of the sports talk shows the other day. If they did this we would be in good shape. You could keep guys like Kreider and it would create some loyalty to your players even if it were for selfish reasons.
I share your desire but let's name make the same mistake the effin win now crowd put us through, getting us here.
Howden - we gave him mins, fine he suffered burnout and if I remember some injury, did ok upon return. There will continue to be some learning, but he is approx fine so far.
He should be 3rd line C, but we committed to Lias, and while he would truly be a terror on the same line as Lemieux and Gettinger, we simply can't apply a 7OA into a 4C, even if we did well getting a premium 2OA and elite sniper UFA this year.
Howden to 4th line until we can up Andersson's game and move him for correct return.
Andersson, obviously was utter putrid nearly the entire season, but those last 3 weeks he finally demonstrated ability to skate at NHL level.
He does not deserve first or second pivot, and needs the mins. to improve his game and be showcased.
Frankly, I can't believe the blatant discrimination in favor of this guy over Nieves and Howden, both of who can skate circles around him and are better passers.
Chytil, like everyone else, should play where we get best results, based on chemistry of lines. 3C may apply down the road, but for now, 3W - presumably 3LW - is the best fit.
We don't need to IMMEDIATELY repurpose Kreider.
We need to be smart and move the other vets as per my above post.
No we do not have room and we need ability to retain to move our deadwood/less desirable assets, not our top guys.
Not too much to disagree with here, except let's not overrate Lias until he fully arrives if then at all.
no need to move CK now
Not sure what you think that is, but given he could get more IMO on the market, if he does 5 yrs at 6.2, with no NMC and limited NTC provisions, then I think he is meeting us at least if not more than halfway.
Smith is tradeable if you go 1 step back to advance 2 steps and rid the contract's 2nd yr
Smith at half to Vegas for Holden + Merill, both expiring. Vegas gets almost 1.5 instant relief.
Buch should be considered depending on if we can sell high.
Also, outside chance Shatty does us a huge favor later and retires, taking a coach/consultant job.
Namest either take like a 6th just to recover the cap or eat and take a 3rd or a 4th
I don't care, just move him.
The unspoken X factor here is if we trade
Skjei to Habs
Deangelo to Flyers or best offer.
That would facilitate a lot of things.
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