Player Discussion K'Andre Miller

[LeprechauninBlue]

Imagine if our offensive talents would blossom as good as our defensive.... We are cursed up front but blessed at the back. So never draft forwards again and just go UFA there.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Imagine if our offensive talents would blossom as good as our defensive.... We are cursed up front but blessed at the back. So never draft forwards again and just go UFA there.

The problem isn't forwards or defensemen. The problem is that this org cannot figure out how to handle players at a young age (18 or 19). That's usually forwards, and mostly high draft picks. We just never had top-10 picks we used on forwards. Not since Pavel Brendl anyway. The last 5 years have highlighted the problem this org has been dealing with ever since people had Tamogochis

 

[CasusBelli]

Key gonna get paid. But whom will we move?

 

[McRanger92]

The problem isn't forwards or defensemen. The problem is that this org cannot figure out how to handle players at a young age (18 or 19). That's usually forwards, and mostly high draft picks. We just never had top-10 picks we used on forwards. Not since Pavel Brendl anyway. The last 5 years have highlighted the problem this org has been dealing with ever since people had Tamogochis

Honest question, what were the Rangers supposed to do differently? Lafreniere was a consensus #1OA going to a team with 2 star left wings who were signed to big contracts before Laf was even a twinkle in the Rangers eye. Kakko had Buchnevich ahead of him, and when the Rangers dealt him (for a disastrous return) to make room for Kakko & Krav, they got hammered for it. Chytil had 2 of Zibanejad, Hayes, Strome ahead of him at various points.

Another component to this is that 18 year olds take some time to physically mature. Chytil took years to get over nagging injuries and grow into his frame and he is now making an impact every night. Kakko is finally looking physically mature on his second contract. Laf right now is where Kakko & Chytil were last year. Kravstov put himself behind the 8 ball running back to Russia twice, and his conditioning has clearly suffered. Andersson was never going to amount to anything and was a bad pick in a bad draft, it happens.

"The Rangers can't develop players" narrative is one built from impatience from the fanbase. Guess what the Rangers can do this offseason? They can afford to bring back all their young guys and keep a good team together. You know what would be happening if they force fed 18-19 year olds undeserved PP and top 6 minutes over their veterans? We'd be figuring out which of our young studs we'd need to trade because of empty calorie points they earned in seasons the team had no chance of making the playoffs in. Imagine the complaining then?

TL;DR: The Development Narrative wouldnt be a thing if our fans acknowledged that development takes time and a group of 23 and unders may not be finished products just yet.

 

[Larrybiv]

Literally Hedman type of potential. If not greater, since he's a better athlete.

I was ridiculed for saying it last year. He had the potential of being one of the top shutdown defenseman in the league... No shutdown defender has his toolbox. He smothers players. He literally made Crosby swing his purse out of frustration

You see the glimpses of every facet of the game.... and it's coming together. Hedman was not Hedman until his mid 20's. Don't forget that... and KAM was really raw as a defender... Point totals will be limited as well because of his PP usage.

He's untouchable and I'd try to lock him up long term when given the opportunity

Yeah man, probably couldn't have said it better myself. I've had KAM's avatar just about ever since he became a Ranger. I just knew he was going to be special, and it he's quickly emerging and starting to come together. We all knew that he was originally a forward, so that has to tell you that he has some talent offensively. My only complaint/wish about him, was that he used his reach a little bit too much and didn't hit enough people when given the chance. I suppose who cares about that right now, because we all know that eventually he'll figure that out. He's picking his spots He's feeling confident and you can just see the offensive side of him coming out, on a game in and game out basis.
The sky is the limit for him, and cannot wait, funny thing is......he will probably always play 2nd fiddle to you know who. Whatever,we don't care now, do we?

 

[LeetchisGod]

And defensive forwards, when is the next Dom Moore Jesper Fast in the organization? Sykora and Chmlar?

we did develop Callahan and Dubinsky. We need forwards with grit and attitude to develop properly. Othmann fits that mold


Anisimov Dubinsky, Callahan, Dom Moore, Fast did okay as developed forwards for us.

None of those guys are true difference makers. Basically every other team in the league has had better homegrown forwards in a similar time frame.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Drury bet wrong with Miller, should have tried to lock him up long-term already. He's going to cost a fortune by the end of the season.

 

[Profet]

As much as I would like to see it, Fox and KAM together would be overkill. Two offensive defensemen together might not be the best look. Each pairing needs speed, hands, and a good stick. That's Fox to Lind, Miller to Tuba, and Schne to Harp. Upset this equilibrium and there's going to be a D-pairing that's bottom heavy.

Can we at least put him on PP2?

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Is he RFA after a 3 year extension?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Is he RFA after a 3 year extension?

Yes

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Yes

Thanks.

So what would he cost on a 2 year deal? 3? 5-6-7-8? I think the team will assess the price points of all those lengths and decide what the right move.

If he comes in around 5.5-6 over 6-7-8, that’s a prudent move. If higher then I think he’s bridged.

 

[cheech70]

 

[cheech70]

Looks like someone who won mega-millions

 

[cheech70]

 

[gravey9]

None of those guys are true difference makers. Basically every other team in the league has had better homegrown forwards in a similar time frame.

Buchnevich, JT Miller, Derek Stepan, Kevin Hayes, Chris Kreider, Mats Zuccarello. All grew up to be first line players. Only 2 were first round picks. All developed by the Rangers. Want to talk about development? Turn a 2nd or 3rd round pick into a first line impact forward.

On top of that, Chytil, Hagelin, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov and now Kakko, Kravy and Laffy. We developed Mika once he got here into a top 15 center in the league. NYR forward development is just fine. Is it elite? No. It's fine. Truth is. it just takes a lot more time.

The impatience. The panning of how Rangers develop young talent. I get some of it. I do think ice time and opportunity matters. But I don't know if it's EVERYTHING. I still think the player's mentality, discipline and drive matters more than the structure around them.

But as for the Rangers, for more than a decade they have consistently developed a team that has been majority or near majority homegrown players. At ALL positions. Basically since the cap era. In that time, we've gone to 3 conference finals. 1 stanley cup final. It's a goddamn wet dream compared to the Rangers after 1997-2007. Or to the Rangers from 1982-1990.

What's going on right now is -- the hype train got us all worked up about all these top 10 picks. And now we're all waiting for our connection. The train that has all these guys as top 6 NHL forwards.

Problem is, that's a local train, it breaks down A LOT and sometimes it just starts going the wrong direction. It's a really annoying train to wait for. And for a lot of us, it's starting to feel like we're waiting forever in the subway and it's 3am on a muggy summer night. But truth is, most young players only show flashes of who they're going to be until they're 24 or 25. And Kakko, Laffy, Kravy, Andersson -- to varying degrees, they came here at 18. A full 6 to 7 years before they will be realized players. But our timeline to win has already started. We're expecting too much. And unfortunately for these players, they're operating under unrealistic expectations and pressure. The players that tend to make an impact right away on the Rangers are the ones that cook a lot more before they come to the NHL. Step came after 2 seasons at Wisconsin, in his D+3. Zuccy came in his mid twenties. Hagelin played 3 years in college. Even Buch took a while to come over and he was still super raw when he got here. Kevin Hayes spent 3 or 4 years in college. That's why, to varying degrees they all looked better at the NHL level when they got here, then Laf and Kakko and Chytil looked in their first 3 seasons.

Based on being a fan for 40 years. I have no doubt that all of Kakko, Laffy and Kravy will be NHL regulars if they remain healthy. I've seen too many prospects that were far far worse and being forced into the NHL too soon - Lundmark, Brendl, I mean even Malhotra was being forced and looked terrible and he had a great career.

That said, what our current kids' ceilings will be is anyone's guess. But to be clear -- not knowing what their true ceilings are-- that's kind of projecting and guessing is actually the only true constant in prospect watching. No one knows. There are too many variables. It's the equivalent of trying to figure out if that really smart intern at your company will become a great CEO in 10 years. Point is, have some of our young forwards hit snags in their development here and there? Yes, yes they have. Will they continue to? Yes, yes they will. But it's simply not true to say the Rangers can't develop forwards. It's a poor take. It's far too simplistic and blunt force. A take meant to just break sh*t because people are frustrated. But it's simply not accurate.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Would 7 mil 8 years be good for Miller and the Rangers, or is he worth more than that?

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

Buchnevich, JT Miller, Derek Stepan, Kevin Hayes, Chris Kreider, Mats Zuccarello. All grew up to be first line players. Only 2 were first round picks. All developed by the Rangers. Want to talk about development? Turn a 2nd or 3rd round pick into a first line impact forward.

Buch, Miller and Zuccarello all hit the ppg mark in a different jersey. Hayes was a UFA who averaged about 40 points per season. Kreider was drafted back in 2009 and really had a breakout season last year, if were being honest. Zibanejad is arguable.
Sure those players are nice finds and they all have had solid careers. But if were talkin about developing elite talent, the rangers are in the bottom tier. Especially when it comes to developing forwards. This mindset of having to grind your way out of the 4th line, flipping pucks out of the zone, grinding style really won't serve your intentions with the players who have world class skill. Especially when you're allowed zero mistakes.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Buchnevich, JT Miller, Derek Stepan, Kevin Hayes, Chris Kreider, Mats Zuccarello. All grew up to be first line players. Only 2 were first round picks. All developed by the Rangers. Want to talk about development? Turn a 2nd or 3rd round pick into a first line impact forward.

On top of that, Chytil, Hagelin, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov and now Kakko, Kravy and Laffy. We developed Mika once he got here into a top 15 center in the league. NYR forward development is just fine. Is it elite? No. It's fine. Truth is. it just takes a lot more time.

The impatience. The panning of how Rangers develop young talent. I get some of it. I do think ice time and opportunity matters. But I don't know if it's EVERYTHING. I still think the player's mentality, discipline and drive matters more than the structure around them.

But as for the Rangers, for more than a decade they have consistently developed a team that has been majority or near majority homegrown players. At ALL positions. Basically since the cap era. In that time, we've gone to 3 conference finals. 1 stanley cup final. It's a goddamn wet dream compared to the Rangers after 1997-2007. Or to the Rangers from 1982-1990.

What's going on right now is -- the hype train got us all worked up about all these top 10 picks. And now we're all waiting for our connection. The train that has all these guys as top 6 NHL forwards.

Problem is, that's a local train, it breaks down A LOT and sometimes it just starts going the wrong direction. It's a really annoying train to wait for. And for a lot of us, it's starting to feel like we're waiting forever in the subway and it's 3am on a muggy summer night. But truth is, most young players only show flashes of who they're going to be until they're 24 or 25. And Kakko, Laffy, Kravy, Andersson -- to varying degrees, they came here at 18. A full 6 to 7 years before they will be realized players. But our timeline to win has already started. We're expecting too much. And unfortunately for these players, they're operating under unrealistic expectations and pressure. The players that tend to make an impact right away on the Rangers are the ones that cook a lot more before they come to the NHL. Step came after 2 seasons at Wisconsin, in his D+3. Zuccy came in his mid twenties. Hagelin played 3 years in college. Even Buch took a while to come over and he was still super raw when he got here. Kevin Hayes spent 3 or 4 years in college. That's why, to varying degrees they all looked better at the NHL level when they got here, then Laf and Kakko and Chytil looked in their first 3 seasons.

Based on being a fan for 40 years. I have no doubt that all of Kakko, Laffy and Kravy will be NHL regulars if they remain healthy. I've seen too many prospects that were far far worse and being forced into the NHL too soon - Lundmark, Brendl, I mean even Malhotra was being forced and looked terrible and he had a great career.

That said, what our current kids' ceilings will be is anyone's guess. But to be clear -- not knowing what their true ceilings are-- that's kind of projecting and guessing is actually the only true constant in prospect watching. No one knows. There are too many variables. It's the equivalent of trying to figure out if that really smart intern at your company will become a great CEO in 10 years. Point is, have some of our young forwards hit snags in their development here and there? Yes, yes they have. Will they continue to? Yes, yes they will. But it's simply not true to say the Rangers can't develop forwards. It's a poor take. It's far too simplistic and blunt force. A take meant to just break sh*t because people are frustrated. But it's simply not accurate.

They turned a 7th into a hall of fame goalie, an undrafted dman into a top 4 dman, 6th round pick into a 3rd 4th line PK forward. It’s not as bad as it seems. It’s the top picks as forwards that is an issue.

 

[SML2]

Would 7 mil 8 years be good for Miller and the Rangers, or is he worth more than that?

You give him that and I promise you will regret it.

The only way he gets that kind if cash is from an offer sheet, IMO.

So say that's what he's holding out for and we can't make it work, what's the market look like for him? What kind of return and from whom?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Man some of you just can’t admit you were wrong about the player lol.

 

[will1066]

I was at the Turcotte game. The place erupted

 

[Megustaelhockey]

What happens now?

 

[nyr2k2]

Really disappointed. He would be very low on the list of guys that you'd predict to do something like this.

What is the spitting suspension length? For previous incidents.

 

[bobbop]

Thanks.

So what would he cost on a 2 year deal? 3? 5-6-7-8? I think the team will assess the price points of all those lengths and decide what the right move.

If he comes in around 5.5-6 over 6-7-8, that’s a prudent move. If higher then I think he’s bridged.

3 X 4 Dobson contract

 

[Cheapshot]

Really not a good look. Hathaway got 3 games in 2019 for spitting. We’ll see.