Kakko vs Lafreniere Revisted; Who do you have more faith in?

[bbny]

You know what would be cool? If both of these kids were killing it so much that a thread like this wasn’t necessary.

Even just one.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Did you watch @15:18 of that video? I don't think it's just a typical Finnish thing to start yelling at your dad in public and berating him because you feel like you might look awkward getting up and walking by him. It may be typical to be less outgoing or less emotional, but that interaction really rubbed me the wrong way.

Lol yelling and berating? Not sure what video you watched. Also, even if he did yell…you have no clue what’s going on with people behind the scenes…especially an 18 year old…

 

[CasusBelli]

Patrik Stefan

 

[failure]

He's so uncomfortable in his own skin and was nervous about getting up to be drafted, so he started being really rude to his father about it. This is a common defense mechanism of people who aren't confident.

Maybe that's just his relationship with his father. I didn't see a father trying to calm or settle his 18 year old son down on the biggest day of his life on the biggest stage he's ever been on, did you? In fact if you watch his father, he seems stand offish and tbh a bit of an a-hole before they cut to the scene you're refering to. If your kid was nervous would you act cold like that? The coach was warmer, or whoever that dude was.

I don't know. I see a kid that is analyzing the situation to make sure he doesn't look like an ass. One that comes from a different culture trying to figure out what to do. Then contrast that with Jack Hughes laid back attitude and he looks high strung.

 

[Scott r]

I have no idea honestly so can’t vote. Prob slight edge to Laf since he probably has the higher floor and seems pretty physical which hopefully will translate to post season hockey. Amazing he barely has any assists but it seems he could be a 20 goal Plus scorer as early as next year.

I've got to go with Laf. I think what's between the ears is the most important attribute in hockey, for anything in life really. And he has the right mindset, the personality, confidence, swagger, attitude, etc to be a star. As much as it pains me to say this, I just don't think Kakko has that "it" factor. He has a beta personality and I'm surprised this never came up as a red flag in pre-draft interviews. Watching the behind the scenes of the 2019 draft video it's abundantly clear how awkward and uncomfortable he is compared to the other kids. He's so uncomfortable in his own skin and was nervous about getting up to be drafted, so he started being really rude to his father about it. This is a common defense mechanism of people who aren't confident.

Watch @15:18

Nonsense.....so many people in sports say it's about coaching and mgmt.....well you had davidson and gorton....considered 2 of the better known and successfull front office people in nhl who both had huge success with blues and bruins select kakko and rave about him. Not going to say a NYR fan knows more then these 2...nope.

 

[Scott r]

I come from a family of extremely loud drunks he was definitely tense and started raising his voice aggressively at his dad over a dumb reason. If that existed in a bubble I wouldn't care but I'm just saying that, along with how awkward he is in all his interactions. I think he has some serious issues with regard to character & confidence, like in the nicest way possible I think he should see

OP has a point about Kakko being too beta to be a star. Not his off ice personality, but how he plays. Plays scared. He has skills and talent but can’t put it to use because hes scared to be out there.

bs

 

[Scott r]

All factors are considered and many factors are in play when a player is drafted and ranked by central scouting. I'm not listening or considering anybody on this board over those factors.

 

[Scott r]

Central Scouting.
"On the world stage, he's already delivered," said Director of NHL Central Scouting Dan Marr. "[He scored a] big goal for Finland when they won at the World Juniors. Outstanding performance for being one of the youngest players in the tournament at the World Championships. You have a chance to bring a player who is a world champion into your lineup before he's even attended an NHL training camp and that's pretty special. He's a complete package and he's going to have a strong future ahead of him because he's already physically developed and has a couple of years of experience playing at the pro level so he's as game-ready as you're going to find in this NHL Draft."

 

[Paul Padovano]

I've got to go with Laf. I think what's between the ears is the most important attribute in hockey, for anything in life really. And he has the right mindset, the personality, confidence, swagger, attitude, etc to be a star. As much as it pains me to say this, I just don't think Kakko has that "it" factor. He has a beta personality and I'm surprised this never came up as a red flag in pre-draft interviews. Watching the behind the scenes of the 2019 draft video it's abundantly clear how awkward and uncomfortable he is compared to the other kids. He's so uncomfortable in his own skin and was nervous about getting up to be drafted, so he started being really rude to his father about it. This is a common defense mechanism of people who aren't confident.

Watch @15:18

To "fix" doesn't sound right, but I think therapy, and even to some extent psychotropic meds can help build self esteem and confidence (especially if he has any depression and/or anxiety). I'm not saying therapy should be used to change his personality, but it can help the kid become more assertive and comfortable in his own skin. Perhaps take more risks.
The Rangers could feel he might be a candidate somewhere along the line, as I'm sure there are many hockey players who are are currently seeking some form of psychiatric treatment.

If he already tends to be very anxious, the early 20's can be a tough time, especially if you're in the process of going through several major life changes.

 

[Row I Goon]

These types of threads will disappear as soon as the kids start putting up points through assists and goals. If they don’t then we’ll still be asking the same questions next season.

My pop used to say “wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up first….”

 

[Paul Padovano]

My problem would be, not so much his personality type, but if there was an underlying anxiety disorder holding him back. This was the case years ago with Shayne Corson, as he describes it; "the anxiety was taking over my life." I believe Corson has panic disorder, and agoraphobia. Of course the Rangers would know much more than me regarding Kakko's mental health. Robin Lehner is another guy who had to battle through much of his career with bipolar. I know I'm getting way ahead of myself here. The kid's probably fine. He's probably going to be fine.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Nonsense.....so many people in sports say it's about coaching and mgmt.....well you had davidson and gorton....considered 2 of the better known and successfull front office people in nhl who both had huge success with blues and bruins select kakko and rave about him. Not going to say a NYR fan knows more then these 2...nope.

But I thought management was to blame for why they suck? If we had the best management in the league why do they still suck?

 

[Scott r]

To "fix" doesn't sound right, but I think therapy, and even to some extent psychotropic meds can help build self esteem and confidence (especially if he has any depression and/or anxiety). I'm not saying therapy should be used to change his personality, but it can help the kid become more assertive and comfortable in his own skin. Perhaps take more risks.
The Rangers could feel he might be a candidate somewhere along the line, as I'm sure there are many hockey players who are are currently seeking some form of psychiatric treatment.

If he already tends to be very anxious, the early 20's can be a tough time, especially if you're in the process of going through several major life changes.

Many hockey players going for psychiatric treatment?? Disagree...I have seen no stats or comments saying so related to nhl players. I would assume...if you got to this point in nhl..you have your act together.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

I don’t know. Lafreniere has more pedigree, but last year Kakko was so good along the boards and in the neutral and defensive zones. All of us were just waiting for him to break out offensively. This year he seems to have taken a step back, but when he was with Panarin and Strome he was really really impressive.

Regardless, both need to be playing in the Top 6. I’m tired of seeing Hunt getting major minutes.

 

[bleedblue94]

Did you watch @15:18 of that video? I don't think it's just a typical Finnish thing to start yelling at your dad in public and berating him because you feel like you might look awkward getting up and walking by him. It may be typical to be less outgoing or less emotional, but that interaction really rubbed me the wrong way.

He seemed like a dick honestly. Seems to be a thing you hear about him from time to time.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Both. I have faith both will eventually reach their potential and Rangerland shall profit.

 

[CupSeeker]

There was a stretch of 6 or 7 games where Kakko was night after night our best forward and then Turk moved him to Zib's line. I think they will both be dynamite in different ways. KK will score more and Laf will be our Captain and leader.

 

[aufheben]

We should have known it was too good to be true. But they seemed impossible misses, and this never happens to us.

Send ‘em to the A. I don’t want to think about this anymore, and honestly it’s like literally the only thing that hasn’t been tried.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Guys, these two kids are performing exactly as they need to be. We're having our best season in years, we're a lock for the playoffs, they're helping the cause as everyday players. People should try not to worry and complain so much, we're a great team! How can you say Lafreniere or Kakko have been disappointing this year--we're 29-13-4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Unusual Suspect]

Yeah, but if they each had 10 more goals we'd be undefeated. Aren't we allowed to hold them accountable for that failure? Stop mollycoddling.

 

[bbny]

Guys, these two kids are performing exactly as they need to be. We're having our best season in years, we're a lock for the playoffs, they're helping the cause as everyday players. People should try not to worry and complain so much, we're a great team! How can you say Lafreniere or Kakko have been disappointing this year--we're 29-13-4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I get where you’re coming from, but does the record really matter when evaluating individual performance? Are we all happy with Hunt? McKegg? Nemeth? Hajek? Just because of our record? For me, not really.

We could be above Carolina, Florida, Colorado, etc if Lafreniere and Kakko contributed more. The record and team progression buys us time with them, so there is no need to “panic”. But we can’t look past it or sugarcoat it either just because a few other guys are carrying this team to their record. Both guys have been disappointing relative to draft pedigree.

 

[motopanekeku]

Hot take here they don't make each other redundant. Opposite wings. Different styles. High upsides. Sheltered under a bunch of star vets. Things are ok. Not perfect but good. Let's all panic.

Honestly sending them to the A might hurt them more than help. They need to be part of the team. They're still tykes and unless there's some specific training they can benefit from down there I say keep on keeping on. Watching them shows they're getting incrementally better.

I'd keep faith in both.

 

[NickyFotiu]

No idea at this point. Like most Rangers fans I would just like to see more to get excited about. We are dying for them to show us a good 10-20 game streak not only of production but of games that the other team takes notice. I understand there is a maturing process. Its just getting to be a bit much especially for Kakko in his 3rd year.

I wish people would stop with the line stuff. It may have some value but good talent rises. Zooks and Brass were our best line despite being our 3rd line one season. They will get more minutes when they show more.

 

[Paul Padovano]

Many hockey players going for psychiatric treatment?? Disagree...I have seen no stats or comments saying so related to nhl players. I would assume...if you got to this point in nhl..you have your act together.

Mental health, or problems with, can pop up at any time. It doesn't discriminate and say "well u should be fine at this point in your life, so adios! Enjoy the rest of your time here on earth." Carey Price is already one of the best goalies in the league. He's currently taking extended time out to treat his mental illness.

If a player is talking to a psychologist or clinical social worker, why would that even be documented for we the fans to have access? I said "some form of psych treatment." That could be meeting with someone twice a month for CBT.

Ntm, have you ever heard of HIPPA laws?? HIPPA cannot just be violated so that you or anyone else can have access to "stats or comments." That goes for the Rangers organization, his parents, friends, etc. Whom ever. If he's willing to divulge, that's a different story.

 

[Peltz]

I think Kakko is going to end up the better player of the two. Like others said, before they switch him to Zib's line, he was our best forward for a stretch of 6-7 games. I don't see him as mediocre besides the current stretch - but that's what happens with such young forwards. They are two steps forward, one step back. You have to be patient with them. And there is a chance he was playing hurt too.

But when Kakko is good, I think we know what his game will look like. He'll be creating turnovers in the neutral zone, hanging onto the puck around the boards down low using his backside to box out, and scoring some pretty goals around the crease. A Marian Hossa-like player. The type of forward who will be a playoff warrior if he becomes good.

I see Laf's game as more of an enigma in comparison. Is he a sniper? A grinder? Not sure. He's been tapping in some easy ones which people seem to think "don't count", but they do since developing a finishing touch at this level isn't exactly easy. He at least has that.

I really think Laf would benefit tremendously from shooting on the outside more and that he could actually be a sniper someday. He just doesn't make enough room for himself yet. He barely shoots but does so at a high percentage. Watching him not shoot feels a lot to me like watching Mika earlier this season. The kid just needs to use his shot to generate rebounds for other players and keep defensemen guessing as well. The more he shoots, the more room he'll eventually create for himself.

I think he just needs to become a shoot-first player. Then the passing lanes he wants will open up more for him to be a play maker too.

But Kakko is the one I have more faith in. I think when he comes back, I have no issue putting him in the top 6 and on PP1 in stromes spot.