Kakko vs Lafreniere Revisted; Who do you have more faith in?

[patnyrnyg]

Well Kakko and Lundell are both second liners on good teams. However only Lundell is standing out thus far. I also mentioned Svechnikov on Carolina. Idk if he's first line, second line, but he's sure contributing a lot to that team's success. Now if one were to argue that Svechnikov gets lots more ice time than Kakko, I understand, but again, the Canes are in first place. Are we to say that if Panarin wasn't here, and Kakko gets more ice time, the Rangers would still be as good as they are with Panarin (just using Artemi as an example)?

You did not mention them in the post to which I responded. At this point, I would say Svechnikov is simply a better player. Lundell has produced, and he has surprised me. However, I am simply not going to whine about a comparison to either. 1) Svechnikov was selected before the Rangers picked. 2) Nobody would have taken Lundell over Lafreniere. Secondly neither Lafreniere or Kakko have been getting any real PP time. Not complaining as the 1st PP unit is pretty much a machine.

 

[Paul Padovano]

You did not mention them in the post to which I responded. At this point, I would say Svechnikov is simply a better player. Lundell has produced, and he has surprised me. However, I am simply not going to whine about a comparison to either. 1) Svechnikov was selected before the Rangers picked. 2) Nobody would have taken Lundell over Lafreniere.

I'm not whining, it's just hockey talk to me. That's all I'm here to do. Btw, I don't wish to deal either of Kakko or Laf. I'm either throwing ideas around, or was guessing as to why several people have all but given up on both players. My original argument (u probably missed that too) was that these fans were comparing, although I wasn't specific enough about that until my next post.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I'm not whining, it's just hockey talk to me. That's all I'm here to do. Btw, I don't wish to deal either of Kakko or Laf. I'm either throwing ideas around, or was guessing as to why several people have all but given up on both players. My original argument (u probably missed that too) was that these fans were comparing, although I wasn't specific enough about that until my next post.

Yes, fans are whining, and mainly because they are stupid, or uniformed. I have had people say to me that they both suck as they are nowhere near as good as McDavid, Crosby, etc. As if either was as highly touted as McDavid or Crosby. Then they point out Hughes and Stutzle's numbers and I laugh and then point out what I did above.

 

[Quinnisinoverhishead]

Should be an option of neither

 

[JimmyG89]

Should be an option of neither

Should be an option for both

 

[Scott r]

I was messing around with the emojis but I will articulate my opinion

kakko you may be right, but my opinion on him won’t be completely decided till he’s 24 or so. He’s a power forward with an emphasis on lower body power. Right now he’s still a kid learning how to use his body. You are right that he will probably never be a 100 point player but I can easily see him as a consistent 30-30 guy down the line

laf I disagree with you on. I still see him as huberdeau and honestly the more top minutes he receives and the eventual PP time that will come with is he’s your casual 80 point player who will have season that reach over 90. The kid reminds me of like messier lite. Not afraid to throw the body but will score in bunches. He dominated his peers and I still think he will

Kakko a 30 30 guy... based on what??

 

[Rangers in 7]

Kakko a 30 30 guy... based on what??

Based on what I’ve seen of his play over the course of a few years now and where I think he will progress

 

[ilezia]

Was the on screen translation accurate? He came across as rude to me, although I don't speak Finnish and am basing this off his body language, tone, and this translation

Maybe that's just his relationship with his father. I didn't see a father trying to calm or settle his 18 year old son down on the biggest day of his life on the biggest stage he's ever been on, did you? In fact if you watch his father, he seems stand offish and tbh a bit of an a-hole before they cut to the scene you're refering to. If your kid was nervous would you act cold like that? The coach was warmer, or whoever that dude was.

I don't know. I see a kid that is analyzing the situation to make sure he doesn't look like an ass. One that comes from a different culture trying to figure out what to do. Then contrast that with Jack Hughes laid back attitude and he looks high strung.

He seemed like a dick honestly. Seems to be a thing you hear about him from time to time.

I have to say I had a bit of a laugh reading all these posts. Kakko's mannerisms and talking in that video are like text-book stereotypical for an 18-year old Finnish boy there. Yes a boy. Maybe he is showing a little bit of an immature teenager side still but you can tell he is nervous so it's coming through. Also his dad's mannerisms are also pretty stereotypical, but he is supporting Kakko there.

It's joked about a lot but Finns can really be a very introverted, and Kakko's mannerism definitely support that stereotype. It's a very different culture to US, although it's slowly changing here too (maybe because of social media?). I'm not saying it's a good thing but presenting yourself is really not taught here, it's not in the culture. To make a number of yourself, so to say, is not encouraged. You're supposed to downplay everything and just do your work. As a result people can come across awkward. Presenting yourself in front of thousands of people makes it 1000-times worse.

People suggesting therapy to "fix" the character are so far off it's not even funny. For Finns it's not uncommon to mature much later than people over in US, or elsewhere in Europe for that matter. For Puljujärvi it took a trip back to Finland to mature. Kakko will get there and figure it out too, hopefully with the Rangers in the near future and not requiring a trip back to Finland.

e. I'm not suggesting Puljujärvi comes across mature now but he did mature in the sense that he seems better with himself and his surroundings now.

 

[Kovalev27]

Lafreniere is going to be a big time player. I think he’ll be a bigger stronger better skating Claude Giroux type. I’m not worried about him at all.

kakko he’s a hesitator if that’s a word. He’s a nervous player offensively. I think he’ll be a second line player that gives you elite defensive high forward play though and 40 to 50 pts. He’ll be a complimentary player to scoring guys. He really does remind me of later Rick Nash after Hitchcock taught him how to defend. So not the goal scoring machine Nash but the later version we got more than anything. He’ll never skate like Nash though

 

[Emptyvoid]

I think something that would make me feel more comfortable with the idea of trading our #1 or #2 drafted player, is if there are examples in the last decade where that turned out well for the trading team.

I keep thinking about Seguin as an example where that ended up being not great. I'll see what other examples I can find

 

[Emptyvoid]

A few minutes of research shows that top 3 picks don't get traded often.

Just my opinion below:

Clear loss: Seguin
Meh - Good: Seth Jones
Clear win: Drouin for Sergachev

Frankly it just doesn't happen often and I think for good reason.

 

[Machinehead]

Lafreniere legitimately scores a lot of goals.

I'm concerned about his lack of playmaking.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Lafreniere legitimately scores a lot of goals.

I'm concerned about his lack of playmaking.

He makes some really great passes. Not a concern at all.

 

[Machinehead]

He makes some really great passes. Not a concern at all.

...he does????

 

[IDvsEGO]

...he does????

Do you actually watch the game? or just look at the stat sheet and see that he has no assists?
Laf has a really strong hockey IQ, knows where plays should go, forces them there.
Even his simple passes are always tape to tape with an easy catch and rarely intercepted. Those are signs of a strong playmaker.

 

[Machinehead]

Do you actually watch the game? or just look at the stat sheet and see that he has no assists?
Laf has a really strong hockey IQ, knows where plays should go, forces them there.
Even his simple passes are always tape to tape with an easy catch and rarely intercepted. Those are signs of a strong playmaker.

I don't think I've ever seen him make a great pass and he's terrible getting through the neutral zone imo, but I guess that's pretty subjective.

3 assists in 45 games is not subjective, and it's unbelievably bad.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I don't think I've ever seen him make a great pass and he's terrible getting through the neutral zone imo, but I guess that's pretty subjective.

3 assists in 45 games is not subjective, and it's unbelievably bad.

Well considering that his most frequent linemates have been chytil and gauthier, what do you expect?

 

[Machinehead]

Well considering that his most frequent linemates have been chytil and gauthier, what do you expect?

Reaves has 7 assists playing with Rooney and McKegg.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Reaves has 7 assists playing with Rooney and McKegg.

And both Rooney and Mckegg have higher finishing rates than chytil and gauthier.

 

[Machinehead]

And both Rooney and Mckegg have higher finishing rates than chytil and gauthier.

Chytil and Gauthier have combined for the same number of goals as Rooney and McKegg in fewer games.



When has Lafreniere ever made a move or a pass like this? I think it's certainly something that can be improved when Ryan Reaves is literally a better playmaker.

 

[Kovalev27]

...he does????

he absolutely does

 

[McRanger]

Laf would open up more passing lanes if defenders thought there was a chance he might actually shoot the puck.

Or if he held on to the puck long enough to try and make a smart play instead of forcing something that's not there.

 

[Machinehead]

Laf would open up more passing lanes if defenders thought there was a chance he might actually shoot the puck.

Or if he held on to the puck long enough to try and make a smart play instead of forcing something that's not there.

He definitely doesn't shoot enough. Or hold the puck to make a play enough. Or do anything enough except go to the net.

I like his nose for the net. That's why I started out with a compliment before the gaslighting started. He will score goals in the NHL.

But I think he could be more and I refuse to believe he doesn't have the talent to do those things.

 

[McRanger]

He definitely doesn't shoot enough. Or hold the puck to make a play enough. Or do anything enough except go to the net.

I like his nose for the net. That's why I started out with a compliment before the gaslighting started. He will score goals in the NHL.

But I think he could be more and I refuse to believe he doesn't have the talent to do those things.

He's too talented of a playmaker to not eventually figure it out. He went from being a pure sniper to being a sniper and the best playmaker in the Q over a summer just because he seemed to be in the mood to do it.

We've had some weird ass paths with these two.

First Kakko shows up looking like someone secretly stole the tendons from his legs on the flight over.

Then Laf shows up and, despite looking mostly happy and comfortable, is unwilling to try and make much happen.

So weird.

 

[Machinehead]

He's too talented of a playmaker to not eventually figure it out. He went from being a pure sniper to being a sniper and the best playmaker in the Q over a summer just because he seemed to be in the mood to do it.

We've had some weird ass paths with these two.

First Kakko shows up looking like someone secretly stole the tendons from his legs on the flight over.

Then Laf shows up and, despite looking mostly happy and comfortable, is unwilling to try and make much happen.

So weird.

They're both, in different ways, passive. Like the rest of the team.

I hope we can find a way to get out of that.