Kadri

[Iceberg]

As long as Bednar is the coach he's not going to break the first line permanently. So it won't be Landy or Rants centering the 2nd line. Ever.

And it was actually Rantanen that played center with MacK out for a couple of games earlier in the season.

 

[Balthazar]

And it was actually Rantanen that played center with MacK out for a couple of games earlier in the season.

Yes but it didn't last long...just like when they move Landy on the 2nd line wing. Bednar likes to keep the 1st line as-is.

 

[John Mandalorian]

How old are those metrics though? With MacKinnon's apparent commitment to a 200ft game and Mikko's improved backchecking, I think they can still be a dominant line without him.

I mean, would you rather have:

Saad - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Nichushkin - Landeskog - Burakovsky

or

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Saad - Jost - Burakovsky

Landeskog at 2C might work but the idea is blasphemous. 9296 is a numerical symphony.

 

[Iceberg]

Yes but it didn't last long...just like when they move Landy on the 2nd line wing. Bednar likes to keep the 1st line as-is.

It didn't last long because MacKinnon came back right after that... my point is that Bednar actually tried Rantanen at center, not Landeskog.

 

[flyfysher]

How old are those metrics though? With MacKinnon's apparent commitment to a 200ft game and Mikko's improved backchecking, I think they can still be a dominant line without him.

I mean, would you rather have:

Saad - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Nichushkin - Landeskog - Burakovsky

or

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Saad - Jost - Burakovsky

I see your point but breaking up 9296 strikes me as just making the team worse. Don’t overthink this.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yes but it didn't last long...just like when they move Landy on the 2nd line wing. Bednar likes to keep the 1st line as-is.

As he should.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

How old are those metrics though? With MacKinnon's apparent commitment to a 200ft game and Mikko's improved backchecking, I think they can still be a dominant line without him.

I mean, would you rather have:

Saad - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Nichushkin - Landeskog - Burakovsky

or

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Saad - Jost - Burakovsky

When Landy has been hurt the last few years have they put guys like Calvert JTC and Kerfoot on the top line?

That is part of the problem. You're replacing a legitimate first line winger with a third line at best type of player.

 

[MarkT]

And it was actually Rantanen that played center with MacK out for a couple of games earlier in the season.

I know that's what they claimed, but if you actually watched those games closely, you'd see that Landy was playing center more than Rantanen. Rantanen himself said the center would be the one playing down low defensively, and in those games it was Landy down low more often than Rantanen. Add in that Landy was the top choice to take a faceoff and it's clear who the center was on that line.

I see your point but breaking up 9296 strikes me as just making the team worse. Don’t overthink this.

The fact is, MacKinnon has shown that he can play really well with other players (like Calvert and Donskoi last season). I think long-term, breaking up that line could make us a deeper team that's even harder to shut down. Bendar has tried to do the Bura-MacKinnon-Rantanen line several times, but it never worked before because none of those guys were good enough defensively. I think now though if you really challenged MacKinnon and Rantanen to be 200ft players without Landy, they'd up their game defensively.

What this all comes down to is looking at all our potential options for 2C, all the ones better than Landy would require giving up good assets or overpaying. So I basically just see him as our default best choice, especially because he can just go back to LW whenever someone else is ready for the 2C role.

So really, what I'd like to here from everyone who hates my idea, who is a better option at 2C going forward than Landy? Kadri? Jost? Overpaying for Danault?

 

[flyfysher]

I know that's what they claimed, but if you actually watched those games closely, you'd see that Landy was playing center more than Rantanen. Rantanen himself said the center would be the one playing down low defensively, and in those games it was Landy down low more often than Rantanen. Add in that Landy was the top choice to take a faceoff and it's clear who the center was on that line.



The fact is, MacKinnon has shown that he can play really well with other players (like Calvert and Donskoi last season). I think long-term, breaking up that line could make us a deeper team that's even harder to shut down. Bendar has tried to do the Bura-MacKinnon-Rantanen line several times, but it never worked before because none of those guys were good enough defensively. I think now though if you really challenged MacKinnon and Rantanen to be 200ft players without Landy, they'd up their game defensively.

What this all comes down to is looking at all our potential options for 2C, all the ones better than Landy would require giving up good assets or overpaying. So I basically just see him as our default best choice, especially because he can just go back to LW whenever someone else is ready for the 2C role.

So really, what I'd like to here from everyone who hates my idea, who is a better option at 2C going forward than Landy? Kadri? Jost? Overpaying for Danault?

I appreciate your thought process but breaking up 9296 during the POs is the wrong time to do this. However, you wrote long-term so there is merit in trying that.

But I thought we wanted to dump Graves, JTC, Donskoi (I'd keep him), Kadri and a couple of prospects so we can pick up Eichel instead. (not happening)

 

[MarkT]

I appreciate your thought process but breaking up 9296 during the POs is the wrong time to do this. However, you wrote long-term so there is merit in trying that.

But I thought we wanted to dump Graves, JTC, Donskoi (I'd keep him), Kadri and a couple of prospects so we can pick up Eichel instead. (not happening)

Oh, I certainly wasn't talking about moving Landy to C during the playoffs. I think we can survive with Jost there for now if he keeps playing well. Maybe give Newhook a go too before Kadri gets back.

Landeskog at 2C might work but the idea is blasphemous. 9296 is a numerical symphony.

There's a reason for the word under my name

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The only way I’d separate the big line is if they aren’t finding the back of the net a couple games in a row. As long as they’re getting it done they can stay together.

I know it was against crap competition, but Jost/Landy/Rants looked quite good together.

I’d keep the big line together, but I like this as a backup.

Nichushkin - MacKinnon - Burakovsky
Landeskog - Jost - Rantanen
Saad - Compher - Dong
Newhook - Bellemare - Soda

 

[MarkT]

The only way I’d separate the big line is if they aren’t finding the back of the net a couple games in a row. As long as they’re getting it done they can stay together.

I know it was against crap competition, but Jost/Landy/Rants looked quite good together.

I’d keep the big line together, but I like this as a backup.

Nichushkin - MacKinnon - Burakovsky
Landeskog - Jost - Rantanen
Saad - Compher - Dong
Newhook - Bellemare - Soda

I see no reason to break up the top line during the playoffs unless it's for the usual blender in the second half of the game. I'd start them together every game.
What really I don't like about your proposed lineup though is Compher as center. The dude has been screaming at everyone for years (with his play) that he's a winger, but Bendar and others keep thinking he's a C. I'd put Newhook, Bellemare and Soda at 3C ahead of JT.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I see no reason to break up the top line during the playoffs unless it's for the usual blender in the second half of the game. I'd start them together every game.
What really I don't like about your proposed lineup though is Compher as center. The dude has been screaming at everyone for years (with his play) that he's a winger, but Bendar and others keep thinking he's a C. I'd put Newhook, Bellemare and Soda at 3C ahead of JT.

If it were my choice JT would be a wing on the 4th line. A role he can play well.

But, at this point I’ve basically accepted that Bednar’s loyalty to JT will keep him at 2C, or 3C until Kadri returns.

 

[MarkT]

If it were my choice JT would be a wing on the 4th line. A role he can play well.

But, at this point I’ve basically accepted that Bednar’s loyalty to JT will keep him at 2C, or 3C until Kadri returns.

*sigh* I know but I want us to at least make a stand here and never put JT at C on any lineups we actually want to see happen.

 

[Richard88]

How old are those metrics though? With MacKinnon's apparent commitment to a 200ft game and Mikko's improved backchecking, I think they can still be a dominant line without him.

I mean, would you rather have:

Saad - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Nichushkin - Landeskog - Burakovsky

or

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Saad - Jost - Burakovsky

The metrics are basically the same every season. With Landeskog their possession numbers are around or over 60%. Without him they're close to 50%.

 

[Koolboss]

Wow people forget he racked up most of his points when the top players were hurt , his line became the 1 line for a couple of weeks and dominated , as a long time Kadri watcher I can tell you he needs to be The Guy sometimes but when he has to be The Guy he responds . When he gets buried deep in the lineup he gets in his own head , I think it Stems from the BS Wilson and Burkie pulled when he was breaking into the league .

They all need to relax, he will score the cup winning goal - there I said it

 

[Iceberg]

I know that's what they claimed, but if you actually watched those games closely, you'd see that Landy was playing center more than Rantanen. Rantanen himself said the center would be the one playing down low defensively, and in those games it was Landy down low more often than Rantanen. Add in that Landy was the top choice to take a faceoff and it's clear who the center was on that line.

So, they claimed Rantanen was the center but it was actually Landeskog, just like they claim MacKinnon is the center of the top line when actually it's been Landeskog the whole time. Weird that they never claimed Landeskog to be a center even for a game since they drafted him.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Does Kadri have the ability to elect to have the hearing with the arbitrator and bypass the hearing with Bettman?

 

[shadow1]

Wow people forget he racked up most of his points when the top players were hurt , his line became the 1 line for a couple of weeks and dominated , as a long time Kadri watcher I can tell you he needs to be The Guy sometimes but when he has to be The Guy he responds . When he gets buried deep in the lineup he gets in his own head , I think it Stems from the BS Wilson and Burkie pulled when he was breaking into the league .

Kadri had really good chemistry with Saad and Burakovsky at the beginning of the year, but it seemed to evaporate and never come back.

If you include playoffs, his stats over the last 31 games are: 2G, 7A, -3.

 

[shadow1]

Regarding the Avs lines without Kadri, a few things:

• The Nichushkin-Jost-Donskoi line was excellent this year. I think they were separated when injuries hit.
• Burakovsky and Donskoi have never meshed well playing on a line together (Compher/Kadri possibly at fault).
• Compher is bad as a center, but in 2020 had some success centering a line with Burakovsky and Nichushkin (he was filling in for an injured Kadri).
• Saad has looked good on basically every line he's been on, except when he opened the season playing right wing on what turned out to be a disaster of a line (Landeskog-Kadri-Saad).

With all that having been said, IMO, Bednar needs to either go Nichushkin-Jost-Donskoi / Saad-Compher-Burakovsky or Saad-Jost-Donskoi / Nichushkin-Compher-Burakovsky.

All I know is the Burakovsky-Compher-Donskoi line needs to be broken up ASAP.

(Obviously I would rather not see Compher playing center at all, but I don't think Bednar has enough confidence in Newhook (or Soderberg, for that matter) to go with either of them )

 

[Avs_19]

Regarding the Avs lines without Kadri, a few things:

• The Nichushkin-Jost-Donskoi line was excellent this year. I think they were separated when injuries hit.
• Burakovsky and Donskoi have never meshed well playing on a line together (Compher/Kadri possibly at fault).
• Compher is bad as a center, but in 2020 had some success centering a line with Burakovsky and Nichushkin (he was filling in for an injured Kadri).
• Saad has looked good on basically every line he's been on, except when he opened the season playing right wing on what turned out to be a disaster of a line (Landeskog-Kadri-Saad).

With all that having been said, IMO, Bednar needs to either go Nichushkin-Jost-Donskoi / Saad-Compher-Burakovsky or Saad-Jost-Donskoi / Nichushkin-Compher-Burakovsky.

All I know is the Burakovsky-Compher-Donskoi line needs to be broken up ASAP.

(Obviously I would rather not see Compher playing center at all, but I don't think Bednar has enough confidence in Newhook (or Soderberg, for that matter) to go with either of them )

It's a limited sample size (only 15 mins) and the Blues weren't good so it remains to be seen if it holds up but statistically the Burakovsky-Compher-Donskoi line was very good.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

 

[cannucky]

Does Kadri have the ability to elect to have the hearing with the arbitrator and bypass the hearing with Bettman?

No Buttman gets first crack at everything

 

[shadow1]

It's a limited sample size (only 15 mins) and the Blues weren't good so it remains to be seen if it holds up but statistically the Burakovsky-Compher-Donskoi line was very good.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

The fancy stats do look good, but they didn't pass the eye test (at least to my eyes). I didn't think that line with Kadri in the middle looked good either, though the advanced stats again say otherwise.

I could just be flat out wrong. But I'm going to just blame the crappy opponent and say the advanced stats would look good with me centering that line.

 

[redacted]

We won't really know how the centers/lines hold up until potentially after Vegas, with or without Kadri. The West as a division is rather weak down the middle. Even Vegas has a 2nd line guy and a couple glorified 3rd liners.... and I feel I'm being a bit generous there.

 

[The Abusement Park]

We won't really know how the centers/lines hold up until potentially after Vegas, with or without Kadri. The West as a division is rather weak down the middle. Even Vegas has a 2nd line guy and a couple glorified 3rd liners.... and I feel I'm being a bit generous there.

Yup. Vegas worries me a little because I like their overall forward depth more than ours. But we definitely have the high end talent advantage. Should be a really tight series.