Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[IDvsEGO]

Ill tell you right now we wouldnt have a top 5 PP with Kakko on it.

Again something I didn’t say.
I’m saying Mika and Ck were bad at 5v5 this year.
And no winger changed that.
the only thing Kakko said was “he got top 6 ice time with Mika and Ck, and the line didn’t produce, he didn’t score enough “

Which is exactly what we all said, but Mika and Ck were a problem this year and so we could’ve thrown Guentzel there and I’m not sure how much it changes.

 

[McRanger92]

Again something I didn’t say.
I’m saying Mika and Ck were bad at 5v5 this year.
And no winger changed that.
the only thing Kakko said was “he got top 6 ice time with Mika and Ck, and the line didn’t produce, he didn’t score enough “

Which is exactly what we all said, but Mika and Ck were a problem this year and so we could’ve thrown Guentzel there and I’m not sure how much it changes.

Kreider had a career year. Mika had a down season after multiple PPG seasons. They didnt have a right wing because Kakko cant do the job. That's a fundamental issue with the roster. I dont care what anyone said on breakup day ultimately. Time to move on.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Kreider had a career year. Mika had a down season after multiple PPG seasons. They didnt have a right wing because Kakko cant do the job. That's a fundamental issue with the roster. I dont care what anyone said on breakup day ultimately. Time to move on.

Yeah no point In having a conversation then.

 

[bhamill]

Kreider had a career year. Mika had a down season after multiple PPG seasons. They didnt have a right wing because Kakko cant do the job. That's a fundamental issue with the roster. I dont care what anyone said on breakup day ultimately. Time to move on.

To be fair, it seems like NOBODY in years has been able to succeed in the "job" of RW to 20-93...

 

[McRanger92]

To be fair, it seems like NOBODY in years has been able to succeed in the "job" of RW to 20-93...

Its definitely a combination of Kreider and Mika being stubborn at even strength, and the fact that they've had 3rd liners (at best) playing there since Buch left. Needs to be rectified in some way.

 

[bhamill]

Its definitely a combination of Kreider and Mika being stubborn at even strength, and the fact that they've had 3rd liners (at best) playing there since Buch left. Needs to be rectified in some way.

Did they ever try Panarin there?

 

[IDvsEGO]

Did they ever try Panarin there?

Consistently this season?
no.
That was a “we’re down and need a goal and Laf was coming out w the extra attacker” move.

 

[markymarc1215]

I'd feel better about KK if there were any tangible signs of development or improvement in his game. I just didn't see it. 5 years in NHL is an adequate sample size, and he's marginally better than his 1st year. We are always fishing for excuses and analytics reaches on why he isn't performing as we hoped. And he isn't going to stay on this team as a 3rd liner that underwhelms as a whole.

Good guy, good defensive presence, and was mishandled early in his NHL career. But that being said, he was a #2 pick. There should be flashes of this over extended periods of time by now.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I'd feel better about KK if there were any tangible signs of development or improvement in his game. I just didn't see it. 5 years in NHL is an adequate sample size, and he's marginally better than his 1st year. We are always fishing for excuses and analytics reaches on why he isn't performing as we hoped. And he isn't going to stay on this team as a 3rd liner that underwhelms as a whole.

Good guy, good defensive presence, and was mishandled early in his NHL career. But that being said, he was a #2 pick. There should be flashes of this over extended periods of time by now.

yeah he's pretty much been the same exact player since he stepped foot on the ice

he's developed about as much as kravstov or lias did. at least the guys who went right after him look mid too for the most part.

 

[bhamill]

Consistently this season?
no.
That was a “we’re down and need a goal and Laf was coming out w the extra attacker” move.

I meant for at least a few games in the seasons since Buch was traded.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I meant for at least a few games in the seasons since Buch was traded.

Never consistently.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Its definitely a combination of Kreider and Mika being stubborn at even strength, and the fact that they've had 3rd liners (at best) playing there since Buch left. Needs to be rectified in some way.

Yep. And it sure as f*** won't be rectified with Kakko on that wing.

God help us if he is in our Top 6 (or God fear us). It's either due to management failure or some insane turnaround. Nothing really in between (OK, save for injuries).

We're throwing a parade for 19 even strength points from Kakko but complaining about 70 point seasons from Mika and Kreider. Does anyone want to improve the team or just count the moral victories for Kakko?

It is abundantly clear that there are fans of the team and fans of Kakko. And, yes, a lot of times (most of the time) those categories overlap. The issue seems to be that people that are big time fans of Kakko cannot put the team in front of the player they support.

This is a common issue with fanbases in sports. I've been there before as well. We saw this with Giants fans in the last 2 years or so of Eli Manning's tenure, for example.

It's just a thing that happens.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

It's batshit crazy that people want to give kakko a 3rd last chance because he finally admitted he was the problem. And they want all the core vets gone because they arent admitting they are gutless losers like the fanbase wants them to.

People can make up any story about kakko that helps them sleep at night but the fact of the matter is, we've lost 2 ECFs and in both the coaches had literally no answer with what to do at the top 6 wing. It's been ignored for too long so a plug like Kakko could "get his opportunity", fail, and then leave management in a position to have to trade assets to replace him.

This post was so good it actually got an insanely rare @Shadowtron like. Talk about an old-school HFNYR legend.

 

[will1066]

Did they ever try Panarin there?

It's time for this. Name it the Problem Line. It's not a problem for the opponent but rather for us.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

You sure use a lot of words to just admit you were wrong about the math.

Don't post shit without checking first. Pretty simple lesson for you. Your math was bad, you doubled down on it, and now you're tripling down on it instead of just admitting you can't do math.

I mean, at least now you're showing me you are just purely acting in bad faith at this point. I can't fathom you still don't get why you're wrong. You stretched the truth with the math and got called out for it. Stop crying.



Yep. It's such a hilariously lazy comparison to make. Notice how none of these guys can actually say why they are in similar circumstances?

They throw out this lazy comparison and then they can't defend it.

Dude, I'm giving you the actual numbers and you're giving me the same belligerent response over and over. What's your point? "He's not a 40 pt player, HE'S A 34 POINT PLAYER ITS RIGHT THERE!"

You're splitting hairs for the sake of being argumentative. You've already embarrassed yourself with takes like "Kakko is defensively bad!" and "Tell me: what is this third line winger good at besides possessing the puck and winning battles along the boards and scoring 34 pts instead of 40?!"

Give it a rest. Don't hurt yourself thinking about this too hard.

 

[McRanger92]

This post was so good it actually got an insanely rare @Shadowtron like. Talk about an old-school HFNYR legend.

Got 2 likes from him today nbd

 

[KingDeathMetal]

It's batshit crazy that people want to give kakko a 3rd last chance because he finally admitted he was the problem. And they want all the core vets gone because they arent admitting they are gutless losers like the fanbase wants them to.

People can make up any story about kakko that helps them sleep at night but the fact of the matter is, we've lost 2 ECFs and in both the coaches had literally no answer with what to do at the top 6 wing. It's been ignored for too long so a plug like Kakko could "get his opportunity", fail, and then leave management in a position to have to trade assets to replace him.

Who is disputing that Kakko isn't the answer for the Top 6? I'm the only one that suggested we start him there again, and it was only as a short term suggestion to build up his trade value while we find a deal for suitable top line rental. If that bothers you, fine; throw Othmann up there or Cuylle. Either way, until we make a trade, someone is going to be playing above their head on our top line RW.

Forget how Kakko disappointed you or what we all hoped for etc etc. The only question is if Kakko has value as a 2-2.5 mil forward on our third line. If you think Kakko's 30-40 pts and lack of elite speed isn't worth a measly $2.5 mil, cool. But our cap situation isn't going to allow us to pay much above that, and the guys scoring 45-50 pts on the third line are out of our price range.

The choice is realistically going to come down to Kakko and Othmann, unless the team wants to use one of them on the top line long term. Which I doubt.

 

[McRanger92]

Who is disputing that Kakko isn't the answer for the Top 6? I'm the only one that suggested we start him there again, and it was only as a short term suggestion to build up his trade value while we find a deal for suitable top line rental. If that bothers you, fine; throw Othmann up there or Cuylle. Either way, until we make a trade, someone is going to be playing above their head on our top line RW.

Forget how Kakko disappointed you or what we all hoped for etc etc. The only question is if Kakko has value as a 2-2.5 mil forward on our third line. If you think Kakko's 30-40 pts and lack of elite speed isn't worth a measly $2.5 mil, cool. But our cap situation isn't going to allow us to pay much above that, and the guys scoring 45-50 pts on the third line are out of our price range.

The choice is realistically going to come down to Kakko and Othmann, unless the team wants to use one of them on the top line long term. Which I doubt.

Id trade Kakko and Othmann together to get an actual good player for the top 6.

 

[LOFIN]

Id trade Kakko and Othmann together to get an actual good player for the top 6.

You are going to have to pay more than Kakko and Othman to get an actually good top-6 player under contract. And to get one with more than 1 year on his deal, a lot more.

 

[McRanger92]

You are going to have to pay more than Kakko and Othman to get an actually good top-6 player under contract. And to get one with more than 1 year on his deal, a lot more.

Im willing to pay the price to actually correct inherent issues with the team.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

why is everyone just throwing othmann into deals, i feel like thats a dude who should make the team next year and provide a spark to the bottom 6 kinda like cuylle this year

kakko+picks+lower prospects seems like a decent package to get a good top-6 winger. there's a ton of forwards available in UFA this year, I think the market will be soft. i mean we traded buchnevich, a 60-70 point winger, for a shitty 4th liner and a 2nd. so kakko+ should get us a somewhat decent upgrade.,

everyone always overestimates this shit

the deals people go "lol they'd never make that trade" to on the trade boards for big name players always ends up being like as shitty as whatever teams fan proposed

and honestly as kuch as he pisses me off at this point, kakko is a guy i could see flourishing on a different team. All it would take is one or two gms still loving him from his draft year to give us good value

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Im willing to pay the price to actually correct inherent issues with the team.

How are you going to afford a star winger with term, when we have the Laf and Igor contracts coming up? As it stands, beyond next season, we're going to either need Trouba and Goodrow traded, or if we're intent on keeping Trouba, a combo of Goodrow, Lindgren, Kakko, and possibly one more player need to go...just to make room for Laf and Igor's contracts.

Barring any miraculous development from Kakko, that leaves us with two options for the top line RW: Othmann, or Perreault. I think it's pretty obvious that Perreault is the guy we should reasonably pin our hopes on, so that restricts us to the rental market this season.

And we're not going to need to give up Kakko and Othmann to get a good rental. I think it's realistic to think that we can trade a 1st, two 2nds, and a B prospect for a top line winger on an expiring deal.

 

[LOFIN]

Im willing to pay the price to actually correct inherent issues with the team.

Is one star winger the fix though? And like @KingDeathMetal said, how are you going to afford one anyway?

I don't mind change, but I think the biggest change this team needs forwards wise is separating Mika and Kreider.

 

[McRanger92]

How are you going to afford a star winger with term, when we have the Laf and Igor contracts coming up? As it stands, beyond next season, we're going to either need Trouba and Goodrow traded, or if we're intent on keeping Trouba, a combo of Goodrow, Lindgren, Kakko, and possibly one more player need to go...just to make room for Laf and Igor's contracts.

Barring any miraculous development from Kakko, that leaves us with two options for the top line RW: Othmann, or Perreault. I think it's pretty obvious that Perreault is the guy we should reasonably pin our hopes on, so that restricts us to the rental market this season.

And we're not going to need to give up Kakko and Othmann to get a good rental. I think it's realistic to think that we can trade a 1st, two 2nds, and a B prospect for a top line winger on an expiring deal.

Is one star winger the fix though? And like @KingDeathMetal said, how are you going to afford one anyway?

I don't mind change, but I think the biggest change this team needs forwards wise is separating Mika and Kreider.

I didnt say star winger. I said top 6 winger. And afford what? The team isnt in a cap crunch. Trouba and Panarin each have 2 years left, anyone the Rangers want to keep long term, they can. I bet they add multiple impactful players with 1/2 years remaining and reassess next summer.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

something like kakko+ for zegras makes a ton of sense to me