Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[Hunter Gathers]

Hahhaha! I’m always lurking. Can’t fully keep away from this place lol

At some point, it would be fun to get all of the pre-9/11 HFNYR guys together for a reunion.

Maybe we can even find Pasha.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Excuses it's a shot at you, it's just in general. There's always something: linemates, deployment, pp time, a snow storm, someone didn't score on kakko's only good pass in 3 games, it's too sunny, whatever.

I'm not suggesting an emotional decision, I'm saying that he has no role here and none evolving. He was benched again in the playoffs. This is three coaches for him that we see the same player and lack of skill.

The issue before then is the team will want to sign him for show me or term at cheap. Kakko is going to want a raise or a term raise so he doesn't get underpaid if he starts producing. This will possibly cause an issue getting a contract done. I will be shocked if he resigns here bc he knows that kreider zib and kakko don't work together so he will be stuffed on the 3rd line again and producing nothing again. So the team won't want to trade him for pennies on the dollar and kakko won't want that role again. It points to an offer sheet.

I said around the deadline that NYR should look to the ducks about a deal of kakko for one of their young d. We could use a d man in the pipeline and the ducks add a young dirty work player to join their young skill.

This is the definition of an “emotional decision “
You don’t like “this bum” on your team and so you want to move him for peanuts.
Also zero coaches benched him for “lack of skill” every coach has talked about his skill as a positive.
Lavi said specifically at breakup, his goal next season is to get Kakko to take a big step, and did call it a failure on his part.

Kakko as he is now, is still a value contract under 5m for a long term deal. Due to just his defense and the little offense he’s actually contributing.

But you want to move him for a mystery box just to get rid of him.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

This is the definition of an “emotional decision “
You don’t like “this bum” on your team and so you want to move him for peanuts.
Also zero coaches benched him for “lack of skill” every coach has talked about his skill as a positive.
Lavi said specifically at breakup, his goal next season is to get Kakko to take a big step, and did call it a failure on his part.

Kakko as he is now, is still a value contract under 5m for a long term deal. Due to just his defense and the little offense he’s actually contributing.

But you want to move him for a mystery box just to get rid of him.

I love it when people just blindly buy into coach speak.

"Yeah, I expected Lavi to say 'That Kakko kid sucks ass! He's a bum!' But boy did he surprise me."

 

[IDvsEGO]

I love it when people just blindly buy into coach speak.

"Yeah, I expected Lavi to say 'That Kakko kid sucks ass! He's a bum!' But boy did he surprise me."

And I love it when people make wild accusations without any proof at all.
If the only thing we have is stats, advanced stats, and eye test, and coach speak, then that’s what we get to use.
We don’t get to claim “3 coaches benched him due to a lack of talent” without evidence

 

[bhamill]

Excuses it's a shot at you, it's just in general. There's always something: linemates, deployment, pp time, a snow storm, someone didn't score on kakko's only good pass in 3 games, it's too sunny, whatever.

I'm not suggesting an emotional decision, I'm saying that he has no role here and none evolving. He was benched again in the playoffs. This is three coaches for him that we see the same player and lack of skill.

The issue before then is the team will want to sign him for show me or term at cheap. Kakko is going to want a raise or a term raise so he doesn't get underpaid if he starts producing. This will possibly cause an issue getting a contract done. I will be shocked if he resigns here bc he knows that kreider zib and kakko don't work together so he will be stuffed on the 3rd line again and producing nothing again. So the team won't want to trade him for pennies on the dollar and kakko won't want that role again. It points to an offer sheet.

I said around the deadline that NYR should look to the ducks about a deal of kakko for one of their young d. We could use a d man in the pipeline and the ducks add a young dirty work player to join their young skill.

I get you, and I have no need to hang onto Kakko. But he is an asset and letting him go for less than he's worth, just to be rid of him would be, IMO of course, a bad idea. If they can use his value to upgrade the D, or any other area, I'm all for it. Will depend on the deal.

 

[Ruggs225]

Laf was working hard on his skating EVERY off season with the same trainer (according to the TRAINER)... sometimes it takes a while, and some confidence, to show.

According to Lafs interview. They really focused more on it last year. Like laf really understood that his skating was holding him back and he greatly increased his leg muscles by 30%.

“The biggest leap in that department occurred this past offseason. Part of that was natural maturation for an athlete who only turned 22 in October, but there was also a concerted effort to hone specific parts of his lower body that affect his skating.”

Alexis Lafrenière: Inside a Rangers breakout season that has been years in the making

Teammates and other people close to the former No. 1 overall pick shine light on all the factors that have helped him make a major jump in 2023-24.

www.lohud.com

This article discusses bow they focused on different things last offseason and how it made a huge impact. So yes, one offseason can make a huge change. Dont take my word, take Laf and his trainers word.

Do u really think kakko doesnt practice skating? Sometimes it has to click in the player.

Hopefully it clicks in Kakko this offseason

 

[bhamill]

According to Lafs interview. They really focused more on it last year. Like laf really understood that his skating was holding him back and he greatly increased his leg muscles.

Do u really think kakko doesnt practice skating? Sometimes it has to click in the player.

Hopefully it clicks in Kakko this offseason

The interview I saw with the trainer said he made bigger gains this past offseason, but that he worked hard at it every year. I think he said something about physical maturity.
In Laf's cleanout day interview he was asked what he thought made his play so much better this year and he came right out and said that it was having confidence and trusting his game. Of course its not an either or, its all of it.

Yes, of course I think Kakko works hard on his skating in the off season, and of course I hope something clicks and he takes the next step as well. HIS next step, not expecting what we got from Laf.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Yeah, even if you look at all the best Finnish forwards playing right now, think Rantanen, Barkov, Hintz, Aho and/or just high Finnish draft picks like Laine, Kotkaniemi, and Puljujarvi, none had a PPG in Liiga in their draft year. That's not the problem/indicator of anything.

Kakko was rushed into the league. Hintz, Rantanen, Aho weren't.

 

[LOFIN]

Kakko was rushed into the league. Hintz, Rantanen, Aho weren't.

In retrospect, Kakko should've been sent down to Harward when it was an obvious that he was struggling, and that was an option. Laf didn't have that option, it was QMJHL or the NHL (or loan him to some European club).

 

[JCProdigy]

Kakko was rushed into the league. Hintz, Rantanen, Aho weren't.

Yep, in retrospect, he was woefully prepared for the NHL in his rookie season. Point being, not being a PPG at TPS isn't why Kakko doesn't have a "nose for the net"

 

[IDvsEGO]

In retrospect, Kakko should've been sent down to Harward when it was an obvious that he was struggling, and that was an option. Laf didn't have that option, it was QMJHL or the NHL (or loan him to some European club).

There was also an assumption that Kakko had a super short off season since his draft year went very long with a worlds appearance.
The COVID bubble he was one of the few positive players against Carolina.

 

[JCProdigy]

There was also an assumption that Kakko had a super short off season since his draft year went very long with a worlds appearance.
The COVID bubble he was one of the few positive players against Carolina.

Still overall, he was awful that first year. Marginally better but still scuffling the next two.

 

[Dijock94]

Wrong. He's a high skill player with a good head on his shoulders, that is likely to continue to grow and adapt. He is also a prototypical power forward, they tend to prime later in their careers.

I’ve been saying this. If he learns how to hit hard on the forecheck and just drive to the net and cause chaos he would be a great top 6 player.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Still overall, he was awful that first year. Marginally better but still scuffling the next two.

The gap between year 1-2 was huge.
He’s improved nearly every year.

 

[JCProdigy]

The gap between year 1-2 was huge.
He’s improved nearly every year.

I mean, yeah you can say it was huge but that's only because he was 4th line level player bad that first year. Last year was really where his production made a jump to middle six standards, which is what makes this year's regression so disappointing.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I mean, yeah you can say it was huge but that's only because he was 4th line level player bad that first year. Last year was really where his production made a jump to middle six standards, which is what makes this year's regression so disappointing.

Sure. But I also don’t see him done growing.
This wasn’t him showing up to camp out of shape. Or having a negative attitude.
His play at the start of the year was great, just almost no results to show. He played like a legit top line forward for the first 9 games.

 

[Levitate]

Sure. But I also don’t see him done growing.
This wasn’t him showing up to camp out of shape. Or having a negative attitude.
His play at the start of the year was great, just almost no results to show. He played like a legit top line forward for the first 9 games.

That's ultimately the hard part about it though. You gotta get results.

I like Kakko and if he could just figure it out he could be a huge part of this team's future but when he plays well things just don't go in for him, then he loses confidence, then he looks lost and useless, then we all hate him.

Confidence is a huge part of making a player look fast but Kakko still absolutely has to improve his first step explosiveness and then use it to beat some players. Start doing something with the puck instead of racing back and forth along the boards. Cut hard and then explode towards the net, if nothing else it'll draw the defense out of position.

Of course I'm some dumb dipshit on the Internet saying this but hey, something isn't clicking for him and he's gotta figure out how to be an effective player and how he's gonna play and how to get there. I feel like ultimately he's a guy who needs the right linemates and so far he just hasn't had those, but maybe then that's also part of the problem.

Any way it goes I think Drury will eye him as a piece that might go in a trade to better the team but if not I would be the coaching staff has some plans for him to work on and as Lavy said try to draw out more success

 

[IDvsEGO]

That's ultimately the hard part about it though. You gotta get results.

I like Kakko and if he could just figure it out he could be a huge part of this team's future but when he plays well things just don't go in for him, then he loses confidence, then he looks lost and useless, then we all hate him.

Confidence is a huge part of making a player look fast but Kakko still absolutely has to improve his first step explosiveness and then use it to beat some players. Start doing something with the puck instead of racing back and forth along the boards. Cut hard and then explode towards the net, if nothing else it'll draw the defense out of position.

Of course I'm some dumb dipshit on the Internet saying this but hey, something isn't clicking for him and he's gotta figure out how to be an effective player and how he's gonna play and how to get there. I feel like ultimately he's a guy who needs the right linemates and so far he just hasn't had those, but maybe then that's also part of the problem.

Any way it goes I think Drury will eye him as a piece that might go in a trade to better the team but if not I would be the coaching staff has some plans for him to work on and as Lavy said try to draw out more success

I agree on the results. Even Kakko agreed.
He did point out if he was better it wouldn’t have mattered how the rest of his line played.

He’s not doing taking steps forward and this is gonna look like the miller to Tampa trade.
We get nothing, and then a few years later he’s exploded, on a reasonable deal and we’re screwed and look like idiots

 

[JCProdigy]

Sure. But I also don’t see him done growing.

Just note, I'm not disagreeing with you here. Obviously, I'm not going to be definitive on it and how Kakko is gonna progress to some great player but this is a place where the GM has to really be careful, read the player, decide what he can get out of the player going forward or make a shrewd hockey trade and get something of real value for the player in a trade.

 

[Levitate]

I agree on the results. Even Kakko agreed.
He did point out if he was better it wouldn’t have mattered how the rest of his line played.

He’s not doing taking steps forward and this is gonna look like the miller to Tampa trade.
We get nothing, and then a few years later he’s exploded, on a reasonable deal and we’re screwed and look like idiots

Miller was already a better player though...we could see the skill with Miller and the results, he just was a bit inconsistent in it all and had the "lacks maturity" tag

With Kakko we haven't quite seeen as much as we did with Miller

 

[n8]

In retrospect, Kakko should've been sent down to Harward when it was an obvious that he was struggling, and that was an option. Laf didn't have that option, it was QMJHL or the NHL (or loan him to some European club).

I thought this was obvious in season 1. As well as EVERY SINGLE TIME he was coming back from an injury.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Miller was already a better player though...we could see the skill with Miller and the results, he just was a bit inconsistent in it all and had the "lacks maturity" tag

With Kakko we haven't quite seeen as much as we did with Miller

What year exactly of millers did we see "the results" compared to Kakko?
Was it the d+2 at 20 where he had 30 games in the NHL with 6 points? Where Kakko had 43 games and 18 points (arm injury)
Was it the D+3 season at age 21 Where he had 58 games played, and 23 points? Where Kakko had 82 games played and 40 points, oh while also being alot better defensively.

Millers best season as a ranger was D+4 with 82 games, 56 points and minimal pp time, and he still got 16 minutes of ice time, a full minute above anything Kakko got.

Miller doesn't get above a PPG player until his D+8 when he starts getting fed 20 minutes a game, and power play time.


Except this single season where Kakko had both shit luck, shit production and an injury, Miller has never out produced Kakko in any concept. Total points, points per game, points per 60, points at even strength.

Just note, I'm not disagreeing with you here. Obviously, I'm not going to be definitive on it and how Kakko is gonna progress to some great player but this is a place where the GM has to really be careful, read the player, decide what he can get out of the player going forward or make a shrewd hockey trade and get something of real value for the player in a trade.

sure, thats a valid question to ask. Can he take this and use it.
Laf took off this year, we thought Kakko took off last year.

But trading him for peanuts, or moving him just because is the dumbest answer ive heard.

 

[bobbop]

Forget about the rumors of him going first overall but he was a pretty consensus #2 pick, #3 is where it got interesting.

This.

At the time you may remember I told you about a near fist fight in the Blackhawks draft room over whether to pick Kirby Dach or Trevor Zegras. My contact told me he never saw such a heated conflict. The Hawks picked Dach and quickly ran out of patience. The Ducks may have had enough of Zegras too.

Lots of other misses in that first round.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

And I love it when people make wild accusations without any proof at all.
If the only thing we have is stats, advanced stats, and eye test, and coach speak, then that’s what we get to use.
We don’t get to claim “3 coaches benched him due to a lack of talent” without evidence

So, we can pose the same question to you. What, specifically, does he do well other than control the puck and win some board battles?

Don't quote stats. Give me actual attributes that he brings.

I know. It may be challenging to not be able to rely on stats and have to actually give some subjective opinions, here. But try it.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Miller was already a better player though...we could see the skill with Miller and the results, he just was a bit inconsistent in it all and had the "lacks maturity" tag

With Kakko we haven't quite seeen as much as we did with Miller

Well said.

Frankly, I can't fathom being so intellectually dishonest to compare JT Miller with Kakko. JT Miller averaged over .5 ppg for us (172 points in 341 games). He was a much more impactful player. He was also trending way, way up when we traded him. He wasn't treading water or looking like a complete bust.

I sincerely think that people are just throwing random names and stats out since they can't actually tell anyone what the guy does well without having to rely on stats or other players.

People need to stop making these ridiculous comparisons. None of them should be taken seriously, frankly.