Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[Levitate]

What year exactly of millers did we see "the results" compared to Kakko?
Was it the d+2 at 20 where he had 30 games in the NHL with 6 points? Where Kakko had 43 games and 18 points (arm injury)
Was it the D+3 season at age 21 Where he had 58 games played, and 23 points? Where Kakko had 82 games played and 40 points, oh while also being alot better defensively.

Millers best season as a ranger was D+4 with 82 games, 56 points and minimal pp time, and he still got 16 minutes of ice time, a full minute above anything Kakko got.

Miller doesn't get above a PPG player until his D+8 when he starts getting fed 20 minutes a game, and power play time.


Except this single season where Kakko had both shit luck, shit production and an injury, Miller has never out produced Kakko in any concept. Total points, points per game, points per 60, points at even strength.

The comment was about when Miller was traded so I'm not looking at them year by year. Miller was also a later draft pick that didn't play until he was 20 and that was expected vs Kakko being expected to be a little more than that as second overall.

All said though, I remember Miller playing and he had more noticeable in game impacts than Kakko. He at least had some swagger whereas Kakko seems to be really struggling to gain and keep any confidence.

I'd love for Kakko to "blossom" and get it and become a much better player than he is but the fumbling back and forths with him are tough. There are plenty of excuses why that is the case but at the end of the day the team needs him to be more of an impact player than he is, even if that's on the third line.

 

[IDvsEGO]

So, we can pose the same question to you. What, specifically, does he do well other than control the puck and win some board battles?

Don't quote stats. Give me actual attributes that he brings.

I know. It may be challenging to not be able to rely on stats and have to actually give some subjective opinions, here. But try it.

He’s an elite defensive winger, those “control the puck”, “win board battles” are part of that.
He basically turns opposing lines into Ryan Reaves.

 

[Machinehead]

Can someone tell me what Kakko is good at instead of some "he's good defensively" (he's not) BS? He can't skate, shoot or pass. He doesnt hit or block shots. He doesnt have a special teams role of any kind. He is the #2 RW on the depth chart behind a guy who switched positions last year. That's a fatal flaw in the Rangers roster construction, evidenced by the fact that they've trade for a top 6 RW the past 3 deadlines.

2.4 mil is a wild overpay for how little Kakko contributes to the Rangers winning games. Money spent much more efficiently on an actual good player.

He has a good frame and can handle the puck decently. That's about it.

That would be enough to get by with a plan and good execution (Kreider became a very good player on athleticism) but offensive IQ is Kakko's worst asset.

He's also above average defensively. Taking it beyond that has always been cope.

 

[eco's bones]

To me he's a 3rd line wing. He hit 40 points in 22-23 so he's capable of that. One of his biggest issues is he's a bit of a head case and he hasn't really handled well the pressure put on him of being a 2nd overall draft pick. He's also been injured a lot. I would say also that the Rangers rushed him in too soon. He was not ready for the NHL in his first year and that may have caused some harm too. I would think at least some of his potential is still there but his confidence issues are also still there.

 

[gump116]

Do you actually think that if you staple Kakko to the top line for a whole season, that he's suddenly going to be a 50 point player, without any improvement in his current physical tools?

Considering he scored 40 points 2 years ago as a 22 year old on the second and third line, that’s really not a big jump. With typical aging curves and more minutes, you’d expect him to be a 50-60 point player closer to his peak as a 24 year old playing on the top line.

Last year was a set back with his injury, but it wouldn’t be at all surprising if he scored 50 points next year and trading him this offseason would definitely be selling low.

 

[dshea19]

Considering he scored 40 points 2 years ago as a 22 year old on the second and third line, that’s really not a big jump. With typical aging curves and more minutes, you’d expect him to be a 50-60 point player closer to his peak as a 24 year old playing on the top line.

Last year was a set back with his injury, but it wouldn’t be at all surprising if he scored 50 points next year and trading him this offseason would definitely be selling low.

It could be selling low or selling high depending on what they get back. If there aren't any offers that improve the team, you don't trade him. If there are offers that make the team better, you move him. I think that there is an assumption by some that the people calling for a trade are looking just to dump him. There are probably a few in that boat, but I think the majority are thinking along the lines of improving the team. Kakko going anywhere is going to be dependent on the offers being made. The Rangers will not dump him just to move on because he is a serviceable middle/bottom six winger who is not super expensive. I think it is also safe to say that if some team is valuing Kakko as a top line player and is willing to give something that helps the team now, he is getting moved. Regardless of the player, the goal is always about improving the team. There are few times where a player is untouchable and that is usually because finding an improvement is going to be unlikely. You don't move Fox when there are only 2 or 3 guys in the league that you could consider as a possible upgrade. Kakko is clearly not that kind of player. He definitely has value and they aren't going to dump him, but if another team is willing to give the Rangers something they think helps get a cup, Kakko is gone.

 

[mas0764]

Kakko is cheap enough and has good enough metrics that he's not a problem on a third line if you have other players there who can score. I don't think he's a net negative where you benefit from getting him off the roster for a replacement level guy, like some defensemen we have....

I understand he's wasted his chances, maybe his final chance here, but if you are moving him out it has to be in a hockey trade to get someone useful back, and really.... it needs to be that you are winning a trade with someone who sees some value in him and wants to give you back a young player with upside as well (and then you have to hit on that player).

Otherwise keep him. This team doesn't need to create holes. It has forward depth issues as it is.

 

[Ruggs225]

I dont understand why he is never tried on the PK. Seems like he would be a natural fit there.

His stickwork and hand-eye is very good for deflecting passes

 

[mas0764]

Kakko shows flashes. He had a span this year with 3 points in 21 games, then ended the regular season and playoffs with 2 points in 21 games.

In between he had 16 in 35 playing with no one who could put the puck in the net on the third line. Not blaming everyone - why couldn't he keep up that pace the last 21 games? He disappeared, himself, not anyone else's fault. If he scored 2 goals and set up another in the Florida series on that third line, we may still be playing.

He's not likely to ever be the star we thought we were getting or even a surefire first line stud... but I still think there's something there with marginal improvements.

A little faster in skating and mental processing and I think you'd see a good jump in performance and metrics.

 

[McRanger92]

I dont understand why he is never tried on the PK. Seems like he would be a natural fit there.

His stickwork and hand-eye is very good for deflecting passes

He played there for like 30 seconds in one game early in 2023 an got beat so bad backdoor on a goal he never got the chance again from Uncle fester. I remember this because I was excited that he was getting a shot lol.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Trade him while he was value before he bolts back to Europe.

 

[LOFIN]

I dont understand why he is never tried on the PK. Seems like he would be a natural fit there.

His stickwork and hand-eye is very good for deflecting passes

I said this during the playoffs, for me the obvious reason is his lack of speed. And not in terms of him not being able to defend, but get on a breakaway or an odd man rush on the PK. That's why Kreider and Zibanejad play on the PK, they are fast and they can score. Vesey might not be a terrific scorer, but he's fast. A lot of teams deploy their PK this way, they have their best forwards out there (unless they are a total mess defensively). There are teams doing it the old school way as well, like Colorado and Edmonton sit their offensive stars during the PK and have the "lesser players" do it.

 

[Ruggs225]

I said this during the playoffs, for me the obvious reason is his lack of speed. And not in terms of him not being able to defend, but get on a breakaway or an odd man rush on the PK. That's why Kreider and Zibanejad play on the PK, they are fast and they can score. Vesey might not be a terrific scorer, but he's fast. A lot of teams deploy their PK this way, they have their best forwards out there (unless they are a total mess defensively). There are teams doing it the old school way as well, like Colorado and Edmonton sit their offensive stars during the PK and have the "lesser players" do it.

Thats a really good thought and observation. Could be the reason.

Just again another reason why he needs to work harder on his skating like laf did

 

[Shesterkybomb]

We just went through a series where we needed an Othmann style player and people are trading him before he even makes the team... just wow

 

[RangersFan1994]

We just went through a series where we needed an Othmann style player and people are trading him before he even makes the team... just wow

People want that soft finisher for Mika and Kreider Othmann should get a look with Kreider and Mika in camp. It can't hurt. His physical skilled game brings a different look to that line

 

[Peltz]

Pre-season doesn't freaking count. Are you joking with this shit. Any NHL scout will tell you there is very little you can glean from pre-season, let alone 3 games.

And I never said confidence wasn't a factor. He definitely got better and better as the season kept going, and that's definitely because of the confidence. But he had jump in his step from game 1 of the season. Note that Lafreniere has been in the top 6 multiple times in prior years and still did very little with it. The biggest difference this year was his baseline physical abilities. The coaching staff recognized it and were confident he could succeed, and in turn, gave him confidence. But without the baseline physical tools it doesn't matter how confident you are, you aren't going to do much.

Do you actually think that if you staple Kakko to the top line for a whole season, that he's suddenly going to be a 50 point player, without any improvement in his current physical tools?

Well…definitely not on our top line.

 

[Peltz]

Then let someone else overvalue him based on guessing what he will become. Watching him his entire career and nothing has changed or evolved. Not a single wow moment of skill.

Below average shot
Below average speed
Below average ability off the rush
Below average playmaking (all f***ing playoffs he threw hope passes blindly to the slot from below the goal line and then snapped his head in frustration because no one was there)

He occasionally shows above average board play and possession

He is an offensive black hole that doesn't create offense.

He actually has a really great shot. But he never has the puck in a shooting position.

His speed and offensive hockey iq need work.

 

[LionsHeart]

He actually has a really great shot. But he never has the puck in a shooting position.

His speed and offensive hockey iq need work.

The problem is he doesn’t put himself in position, he’s constantly bringing the puck to the outside.

I’m a huge fan of his and still think he can be a good player, but at some point it’s on him and even he admitted as much. A change of scenery might not be a bad idea for him.

 

[LOFIN]

Othmann should get a look with Kreider and Mika in camp. It can't hurt. His physical skilled game brings a different look to that line

No

What should happen, is nuking the combo Mika-Kreider at even strength. Take that concept, and shoot it to the f***ing moon. Let them be butt-buddies at PP and PK, but keep them on separate lines 5v5. Kreider is so much better without Mika. And who knows, maybe with different players Mika is forced to do something else as well.

 

[EdJovanovski]

He actually has a really great shot. But he never has the puck in a shooting position.

His speed and offensive hockey iq need work.

What is that based on?
And now that we have access to NHL Edge, I think it's safe to say that slapshot speed he registered in Finland one summer was fake lol

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

What is that based on?
And now that we have access to NHL Edge, I think it's safe to say that slapshot speed he registered in Finland one summer was fake lol

Now that he’s switched to an adult sized stick he actually gets a lot on his shots.

 

[gump116]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1799142422796009536

 

[bleedblue94]

This is the definition of an “emotional decision “
You don’t like “this bum” on your team and so you want to move him for peanuts.
Also zero coaches benched him for “lack of skill” every coach has talked about his skill as a positive.
Lavi said specifically at breakup, his goal next season is to get Kakko to take a big step, and did call it a failure on his part.

Kakko as he is now, is still a value contract under 5m for a long term deal. Due to just his defense and the little offense he’s actually contributing.

But you want to move him for a mystery box just to get rid of him.

Where did I say move him for peanuts?

Show me a place I said that.

And there is no way he is getting a long term deal under 5m. The team won't do it bc it's crippling if he doesnt break out. The player won't do in it bc he's betting he will breakout.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

does anyone subscribe to evolving wild and have their contract projections for kaapo
im just going to say it, this smells like a 1 year deal via arbitration. drury needs to get ahead of this ASAP

 

[Hunter Gathers]

He’s an elite defensive winger, those “control the puck”, “win board battles” are part of that.
He basically turns opposing lines into Ryan Reaves.

Holy f***ing shit. This has to be a troll. You cannot be serious. This is as comical as calling the guy a future Selke winner (which was literally said on this board fairly recently).

It's also COMICAL (and I mean utterly comical) that you couldn't name a single other thing other than the things I mentioned as his only positives. My God. Imagine living in a fever dream where Kakko is "an elite defensive winger."

You just cannot be serious. I refuse to believe that you are SERIOUSLY saying Kakko is "an elite defensive winger." I must be missing the troll/joke, here.

Right?

Where did I say move him for peanuts?

Show me a place I said that.

And there is no way he is getting a long term deal under 5m. The team won't do it bc it's crippling if he doesnt break out. The player won't do in it bc he's betting he will breakout.

You're talking to a guy that thinks Kakko is "an elite defensive winger." I don't think you should expect a serious response.

Considering he scored 40 points 2 years ago as a 22 year old on the second and third line, that’s really not a big jump. With typical aging curves and more minutes, you’d expect him to be a 50-60 point player closer to his peak as a 24 year old playing on the top line.

Last year was a set back with his injury, but it wouldn’t be at all surprising if he scored 50 points next year and trading him this offseason would definitely be selling low.

50 points would be, what, nearly a 30% improvement over the prior year. How that's not quite a big jump is beyond me. Especially with a guy who only barely hit 40 points once and has never, ever crossed the .5ppg threshold a single time in his NHL career.

I don't think some of you guys really understand how difficult it is to just score 30% more points without significantly changing your game in some manner.

Also, on what planet would he be putting up 50-60 points "on the top line?" That would be some absolute dogshit, 15-win team top line. That's like worse than an expansion team. The top 5 scorers all had over 70 points. If we had Kakko putting up 60 on the top line, we'd be competing for the #1 overall pick.