Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[Toene]

I didn’t like Slaf’s game last night at all.

Wastes puck touches like tissue paper. Is always thinking pass. Never thinks of taking the puck to the net. Never drives the net. Never cuts to the slot to shoot. A typical puck possession for him is circling close to the boards until he loses puck possession.

Is he good enough to be a plug in the NHL right now? Sure. Are my standards way too high for a 19 year old kid in his second NHL season? Probably.

The people who claim the NHL can't hurt him seem to be deliberately ignoring that the risk in having him over his head is that he'll start to develop bad habits like you are describing right now. He's just there, surviving, instead of playing tons and tons of minutes in multiple situations.

What a 1st OA, I'm so excited :| . I say this as someone who was stoked on draft day when we picked him.

 

[Sorinth]

The people who claim the NHL can't hurt him seem to be deliberately ignoring that the risk in having him over his head is that he'll start to develop bad habits like you are describing right now. He's just there, surviving, instead of playing tons and tons of minutes in multiple situations.

What a 1st OA, I'm so excited :| . I say this as someone who was stoked on draft day when we picked him.

Yes the big risk in someone being rushed is learning bad habits, and incidentally that risk is also there in the opposite situation when a star player gets sent back to Juniors like Drouin who just had his non-pro habits that work in juniors reinforced for another year and then could never break them as an NHLer.

The real question is whether this is what's actually happening with Slafkovksy. Yes as the other poster mentions he's too tentative, he needs to impose himself on the game more by driving the net, and shooting more. That said I don't really see that as a case of him being in over his head and thereby trying to play it safe. I already see him trying and doing things he wasn't last season, so he is learning, and I'd argue that he is learning pro-level stuff.

 

[417]

I've often it seen it mentioned that Kotkaniemke was rushed to the NHL…how can we reconcile that theory with what we’re seeing now?

Would Kotkaniemi be an entirely different and better player today if this was his 2nd or 3rd NHL season instead of his 6th?

Would he have double the amount of points he has now because he would have spent another season in Finland and perhaps two more in the AHL?

I recall arguing in the many threads on this topic that we wouldn't see his true potential until he was 23-24 and that our lack of patience and need for immediate results, should not be a barometer for his development as a prospect…

Well a few years later, here we are...

I can already see the same thing is happening with Slafkovsky, we keep trying to tie our own expectations to his progress or lack there of, as a prospect and insisting that more time in lesser leagues would make him a better player (which maybe it would, mind you, not dismissing the idea all together) when in reality the only thing we need is patience.

But I know this fanbase doesn't have the patience or foresight to see 4-5 years down the line.

I just hope, unlike previous regimes, our management does.

 

[morhilane]

we keep trying to tie our own expectations to his progress or lack there of

Slaf has shown as lot of progression between his D+1 and D+2. In terms of how he plays: cardio, awarness and positioning are much better. This leads to improved pace and getting more puck touches. He's also improving at using his body/strength. He still have things to work on and the speed of the game can still be a challenge, but he only played 39 games last year and 4 this season so far.

There is no production progression (yet), but there isn't a lack of progression with him.

 

[417]

Slaf has shown as lot of progression between his D+1 and D+2. In terms of how he plays: cardio, awarness and positioning are much better. This leads to improved pace and getting more puck touches. He's also improving at using his body/strength. He still have things to work on and the speed of the game can still be a challenge, but he only played 39 games last year and 4 this season so far.

There is no production progression (yet), but there isn't a lack of progression with him.

Oh totally agreed but those aren't tangible improvements that are measurable and while I agree with you that that's improvement, most tie progression/development, to production unfortunately.

I don't agree with that kind of reasoning, just stating that's how it is for most.

 

[Don D]

Interesting RDS bit on the Slaf/Newhook comboEn CHiffres : Newhook et Slafkovsky brillent même sans Dach (Billy Bertrand) | RDS

 

[Treal]

I've often it seen it mentioned that Kotkaniemke was rushed to the NHL…how can we reconcile that theory with what we’re seeing now?

Would Kotkaniemi be an entirely different and better player today if this was his 2nd or 3rd NHL season instead of his 6th?

Would he have double the amount of points he has now because he would have spent another season in Finland and perhaps two more in the AHL?

I recall arguing in the many threads on this topic that we wouldn't see his true potential until he was 23-24 and that our lack of patience and need for immediate results, should not be a barometer for his development as a prospect…

Well a few years later, here we are...

I can already see the same thing is happening with Slafkovsky, we keep trying to tie our own expectations to his progress or lack there of, as a prospect and insisting that more time in lesser leagues would make him a better player (which maybe it would, mind you, not dismissing the idea all together) when in reality the only thing we need is patience.

But I know this fanbase doesn't have the patience or foresight to see 4-5 years down the line.

I just hope, unlike previous regimes, our management does.

For the record, I always thought Bergevin should've matched Kotkaniemi's offer sheet as outrageous as the initial offer seemed. I still have little doubt that he'll become a regular 50 pt forward at the very least in due time.

That said, even Kotkaniemi himself in hindsight now believes he might've been rushed:

There’s a widespread belief among NHL personnel that Montreal botched Kotkaneimi’s development by placing him in the NHL too quickly. Even Kotkaniemi said that, in hindsight, he probably would have been better off returning to Finland instead of playing in the NHL just a few months after being drafted third overall. Perhaps things would have turned out differently.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/hurricanes-gamble-on-kotkaniemi-begins-to-pay-off

Hell, even Koivu thinks it would've helped him.

https://www.tvasports.ca/2019/12/03/koivu-aurait-garde-kotkaniemi-en-finlande

Sure there's no guarantee that Kotkaniemi (of Slaf for that matter) would develop differently if they had been sent down but I just can't believe that it would've hurt them.

Calling a subset of the fanbase impatient for wanting Slafkovsky to spend a year or two in the minors is the type of reframing that would make politicians envious.

In the end, it doesn't matter what Habs fans think. If Slaf's development stagnates for 5 years or more, all it will take is for the GM's job to be on the hot seat and there's a bigger chance that Slaf reaches his potential elsewhere than with the Habs.

 

[SlafySZN]

Oh totally agreed but those aren't tangible improvements that are measurable and while I agree with you that that's improvement, most tie progression/development, to production unfortunately.

I don't agree with that kind of reasoning, just stating that's how it is for most.

I mean, we’re 4 games in. We’ll see how the year goes.

Having Dach with him and how they were connecting it looked like he would take a step on production too. He still could take off somewhere during the year with Newhook, we will see.

 

[Tyson]

I mean, we’re 4 games in. We’ll see how the year goes.

Having Dach with him and how they were connecting it looked like he would take a step on production too. He still could take off somewhere during the year with Newhook, we will see.

He looks like a completely different player this season.

 

[417]

For the record, I always thought Bergevin should've matched Kotkaniemi's offer sheet as outrageous as the initial offer seemed. I still have little doubt that he'll become a regular 50 pt forward at the very least in due time.

That said, even Kotkaniemi himself in hindsight now believes he might've been rushed:

https://thehockeynews.com/news/hurricanes-gamble-on-kotkaniemi-begins-to-pay-off

Hell, even Koivu thinks it would've helped him.

https://www.tvasports.ca/2019/12/03/koivu-aurait-garde-kotkaniemi-en-finlande

Sure there's no guarantee that Kotkaniemi (of Slaf for that matter) would develop differently if they had been sent down but I just can't believe that it would've hurt them.

But we’re not talking about if it would have hurt him, we’re talking about what would have been more beneficial.

And I just don't think we’d be looking at a drastically different Jesperi Kotkaniemi today.

The only difference would be that he would likely still be a Habs player and this fanbase would be ecstatic at his future.

Exactly the way Canes fans are today.

Calling a subset of the fanbase impatient for wanting Slafkovsky to spend a year or two in the minors is the type of reframing that would make politicians envious.

I didn't call anyone impatient for wanting Slafkovsky to spend a year or two in the minors.

There's nothing wrong with that take, itspl perfectly reasonable.

So it's interesting that you would advance that im responsible for that reframing given you're the one who framed it that way.

In the end, it doesn't matter what Habs fans think. If Slaf's development stagnates for 5 years or more, all it will take is for the GM's job to be on the hot seat and there's a bigger chance that Slaf reaches his potential elsewhere than with the Habs.

No it really doesn't, agreed 100% hence why I said management needs to keep doing what they feel is best and not do what fans want to ease their anxiety about the pick.

 

[Miller Time]

For the record, I always thought Bergevin should've matched Kotkaniemi's offer sheet as outrageous as the initial offer seemed. I still have little doubt that he'll become a regular 50 pt forward at the very least in due time.

That said, even Kotkaniemi himself in hindsight now believes he might've been rushed:

https://thehockeynews.com/news/hurricanes-gamble-on-kotkaniemi-begins-to-pay-off

Hell, even Koivu thinks it would've helped him.

https://www.tvasports.ca/2019/12/03/koivu-aurait-garde-kotkaniemi-en-finlande

Sure there's no guarantee that Kotkaniemi (of Slaf for that matter) would develop differently if they had been sent down but I just can't believe that it would've hurt them.

Calling a subset of the fanbase impatient for wanting Slafkovsky to spend a year or two in the minors is the type of reframing that would make politicians envious.

In the end, it doesn't matter what Habs fans think. If Slaf's development stagnates for 5 years or more, all it will take is for the GM's job to be on the hot seat and there's a bigger chance that Slaf reaches his potential elsewhere than with the Habs.

The way the team is currently handling Slaf is completely different than how the team handled JKO...

The subtle but important nuances are what's being missed when simply viewing it as "play in NHL vs play in AHL/Europe".

Amounts to comparing apples to oranges

What's positive about the approach to Slaf isn't that he's in the NHL, it's the entire process & buy in from all involved. The lack of communication and alignment btw player, coach, hockey ops in JKO'S situation was apparent early on, and only got worse until the inevitable relationship fracture & departure at the first opportunity the player got.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I have hope for a great pass tonight on someone's tape

 

[SlafySZN]

He looks like a completely different player this season.

He does, that’s why i’m confident on him. It shows he’s a pretty fast learner. His draft year was him getting better and better every month.

 

[ReHabs]

The way the team is currently handling Slaf is completely different than how the team handled JKO...

The subtle but important nuances are what's being missed when simply viewing it as "play in NHL vs play in AHL/Europe".

Amounts to comparing apples to oranges

What's positive about the approach to Slaf isn't that he's in the NHL, it's the entire process & buy in from all involved. The lack of communication and alignment btw player, coach, hockey ops in JKO'S situation was apparent early on, and only got worse until the inevitable relationship fracture & departure at the first opportunity the player got.

What’s most important is that you actually believe this time is different from last time.

 

[morhilane]

I mean, we’re 4 games in. We’ll see how the year goes.

Having Dach with him and how they were connecting it looked like he would take a step on production too. He still could take off somewhere during the year with Newhook, we will see.

Losing Dach haven't affected Slaf/Newhook too much in term of advanced stats, but Anderson is the wrong guy for them. Slaf spend too much time trying to have the puck because Anderson is good at only: skate into the zone, shot on net and lose the puck.

Hopefully, MSL doesn't have "orders" to get Anderson going and Slaf gets split from Newhook to achieve that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The guys who take their time and reach their potential in their mid 20s is more likely the norm, regardless of size.

The guys who are stars right off the bat are the exceptions, not the rule.

100% agree. Some fans think most players prime starts in their early 20's. Not really true. Most players have shorter primes (24/25-30/31) ish.

The ones with longer primes are the stars. Age 20/21 to 32/33 ish.

 

[RationalExpectations]

The issue with development is that we don t have counterfactuals. Would KK have been better off with a year in Finland and one i. The AHL ? Maybe but not sure. Would Rantanen be as good if he had been sent to the NHL directly ? Maybe but not sure.

I was in favour of two AHL years for Slaf from the start, just like I am happy with Roy spending the year in the AHL, however there is no way to tell whether I am right or not.

Now that Slaf is in the NHL let s just hope he develops for the best

 

[SlafySZN]

Losing Dach haven't affected Slaf/Newhook too much in term of advanced stats, but Anderson is the wrong guy for them. Slaf spend too much time trying to have the puck because Anderson is good at only: skate into the zone, shot on net and lose the puck.

Hopefully, MSL doesn't have "orders" to get Anderson going and Slaf gets split from Newhook to achieve that.

They need someone to help them keep the puck in the o zone, someone who puts pressure in puck possession, something Dach is a beast at. Slaf was able to touch the puck more because of that and keep plays alive. Eventually he’s gonna be the guy doing that, similar to Dach but for now he looked good playing with someone doing that kind of work, not that he isn’t still looking good now.

I agree Anderson’s not that guy.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What’s most important is that you actually believe this time is different from last time.

What's most important is no two players are alike. So yeah, it will be different. The only thing that might be the same is modest improvement season/season as they get to their prime years. They are clearly not the types to break out early in their careers.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The issue with development is that we don t have counterfactuals. Would KK have been better off with a year in Finland and one i. The AHL ? Maybe but not sure. Would Rantanen be as good if he had been sent to the NHL directly ? Maybe but not sure.

I was in favour of two AHL years for Slaf from the start, just like I am happy with Roy spending the year in the AHL, however there is no way to tell whether I am right or not.

Now that Slaf is in the NHL let s just hope he develops for the best

I like to think that there is safe development or risky development. Safe development is allowing the player to improve and dominate the league they are in before promotion. Risky development is pushing them to a new league before they dominate the league prior.

However, at the end of the day, I am a firm believe the player turns into who they turn into as they touch their prime. How they get there is mostly due to their obsession to improve and how they comprehend their challenges along the way.

Momentum/confidence could be affected if they are rushed, but if they don't figure it out over time, that to me, means they have weak hockey IQ.

 

[Habs Halifax]

They need someone to help them keep the puck in the o zone, someone who puts pressure in puck possession, something Dach is a beast at. Slaf was able to touch the puck more because of that and keep plays alive. Eventually he’s gonna be the guy doing that, similar to Dach but for now he looked good playing with someone doing that kind of work, not that he isn’t still looking good now.

I agree Anderson’s not that guy.

Agreed. I'm a Anderson supporter but not sure he is right for the young Slaf.

Dach going down did create ripple effects.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Had we matched KK, it wouldn’t have changed anything with the team. They still would’ve crashed and a new management team would’ve been brought in before Bergevin himself and Ducharme could’ve caused any long term damage much like with Caufield. I think KK would’ve really struggled here tho due to the poor talent he would’ve been playing with and our fans would’ve likely soured on him if anything. That contract would’ve done him no favours with expectations either.

KK should have been settled long before the offer sheet.

Had Hughes been in the saddle he would have likely made KK feel good about his future here, and given him a Newhook-like contract, i.e. 4 x $2.9M

 

[Habs Halifax]

KK should have been settled long before the offer sheet.

Had Hughes been in the saddle he would have likely made KK feel good about his future here, and given him a Newhook-like contract, i.e. 4 x $2.9M

Don't offer sheet Aho and the Canes don't offer sheet Kotkaniemi. Simple as that. They were looking for revenge and I don't care if they say they were not.

What fans don't know is when the Canes contacted KK's agent. Newhook or Dach could have been offer sheeted bud. This problem with KK/Canes comes from the Aho offer sheet.

* Newhook signed his deal on July 11th
* Dach signed his deal on Sept 7th
* KK signed his deal on Aug 28th.

 

[morhilane]

* KK signed his deal on July 1st.

KK received and signed his offer sheet on August 28th.

 

[Paddy17]

They need someone to help them keep the puck in the o zone, someone who puts pressure in puck possession, something Dach is a beast at. Slaf was able to touch the puck more because of that and keep plays alive. Eventually he’s gonna be the guy doing that, similar to Dach but for now he looked good playing with someone doing that kind of work, not that he isn’t still looking good now.

I agree Anderson’s not that guy.

RHP.