Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[DAChampion]

They make sense you've just decided to make it an exclusive club based purely on age and not hockey experience in general.

Slafkovsky his draft year split time between the U20 SM Liiga/SM Liiga/Slovakian National Team both Men’s and Juniors/Olympics

Xhekaj went from UNDRAFTED CHL player, to regular NHL Dman over 12 months. From the time he signed his ELC with the Habs in October 2021, to when he made his debut with the Habs in 2022..

He played a TOTAL of 51 OHL games.

Kaiden Guhle was drafted in 2020 and between then and when he made his debut as a regular 20+ min Dman in the NHL, in 2022..

He played a TOTAL of 44 WHL regular season games + 19 playoff games + 7 WJC games.

What are we doing here lol? That's the difference between them and Slafkovsky? Not even a full season worth of CHL hockey?

Come on man lol

Is the argument here that if Slafkovsky played 50 games in Eerie last year, he would be leading the Habs in points right now???

Really?

There's also some physical and mental maturation between the ages of 18 and 20. The level of maturation isn't inevitable, and likely turns out better in a better environment.

 

[417]

I guess he could be more than a face puncher. It's probably why he insists to be called the Sheriff....I guess it has to do with how many goals he'll scored....I'm pretty sure I did say that everything else than a bottom 2 d-man and a face puncher was the expectations and everything else was gravy...and gravy does happen sometimes. Do you think I'd be mad if somehow he becomes more than that? What I expect from Arber? It,s be a physical presence. Great defensively. And yep, maybe some Pp time because he has that strength of his to find the shooting lanes. If he does all that...do you not think though that it wouldn't be gravy based on the fact that he never was drafted. And never had any offensive role since the beginning of his career? Do you think it's the norm or the exception?

All great questions, i’m not sure if I think that's the norm or the exception.

I do think there's a lot more Arber Xhekaj’s stories out there though. The NHL scouting community, as evidenced here, is very rigid in their thinking and there is little outside the box thinking, probably the nature of a sport that is very conservative by nature.

But I'll lob the question back to you…doesnt Arber Xhekaj fit to a tee, the type of development that most would qualify as “rushing”?

I mean, it fits all of the criteria that I keep reading about.

Yet…not a single word, which I guess is kinda normal given he was never drafted but also not because he's quickly establishing himself as a core player moving forward and so much more than a face puncher.

What about me as far as Lack of production? Do you actually read my posts? Do you want me to go back at finding posts responding to YOU about how his lack of production is not what strikes me the most about him? Having said that....this is who he is suppose to become. A point producer. Point producing needs confidence. See Caufield with Ducharme. My humble self think that a trip to the AHL could get that going. Sue me. But I see that you didn't respond to my post...if he's not No1....does the team have him in the NHL? When you say you wish people would do that...do you think of the team too?

And sometimes, a lot of times…that takes time.

That's OK…the Sedin twins didn't look like future HOFers right off the rip (please save me the posts about me comparing Slaf to them, I'm not).

As far as the whole gaslight point about me, you having influence over the team's decisions...I have no idea where you are going with this. This is a hockey forum. We discuss things. Where, when, and how have I expressed that because I say things on a hockeky forum that nobody reads that I'm expecting Martin St-Louis to change his lineup or that Bobrov starts drafting by BPA. Where? Have you once saw my post addressed to any of those guys? lol

I didn't gaslight you or wasn't my intent…its just you keep talking about things that I don't think matter.

Who cares if I trust them or not…it has nothing to do with anything. They're not accountable to me.

That's all I meant.

Marc Bergevin stuck to his plan. Holland in Edmonton sticks to this plan. So many people sticks to their plan. As is sticking to a plan is always a winning strategy. Strangely, we often bash coaches for not adjusting to game strategies....I'd say that within an organization when your plan isn't going accordlingly, maybe they could start adjusting as well.

Meh Id say Bergevin listened to fans way too much, that was one of my biggest gripes actually.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees though.

The point is management was put in place to do a job, they have a plan. I don't have to agree with it and they don't have to tailor their plan for my approval either. I wouldn't want them too (see post about Bergevin).

Yep, my plan isn't their plan. My plan would be to tank even more. To take even more time with prospects. To pick up the beset players regarding the positions. And to adress needs through trades after. Clearly, that's not what they are doing. But yeah, as a fan of the team, I still hope their plan works.

I still wonder why we cannot disagree with it just because THE PLAN is theirs. If so, close the forum.

Who

 

[417]

I guess he could be more than a face puncher. It's probably why he insists to be called the Sheriff....I guess it has to do with how many goals he'll scored....I'm pretty sure I did say that everything else than a bottom 2 d-man and a face puncher was the expectations and everything else was gravy...and gravy does happen sometimes. Do you think I'd be mad if somehow he becomes more than that? What I expect from Arber? It,s be a physical presence. Great defensively. And yep, maybe some Pp time because he has that strength of his to find the shooting lanes. If he does all that...do you not think though that it wouldn't be gravy based on the fact that he never was drafted. And never had any offensive role since the beginning of his career? Do you think it's the norm or the exception?

Odd though that Xhekaj checks off every criteria of a player being “rushed”.

But you never read about it.

What about me as far as Lack of production? Do you actually read my posts? Do you want me to go back at finding posts responding to YOU about how his lack of production is not what strikes me the most about him? Having said that....this is who he is suppose to become. A point producer. Point producing needs confidence. See Caufield with Ducharme. My humble self think that a trip to the AHL could get that going. Sue me. But I see that you didn't respond to my post...if he's not No1....does the team have him in the NHL? When you say you wish people would do that...do you think of the team too?

Sometimes it also needs time and patience.

Yes, even in the NHL.

As far as the whole gaslight point about me, you having influence over the team's decisions...I have no idea where you are going with this. This is a hockey forum. We discuss things. Where, when, and how have I expressed that because I say things on a hockeky forum that nobody reads that I'm expecting Martin St-Louis to change his lineup or that Bobrov starts drafting by BPA. Where? Have you once saw my post addressed to any of those guys? lol

Then I'm not sure why you keep bringing up discussions points about me trusting management.

They're not accountable to me…my level of trust is irrelevant. So is yours.

Marc Bergevin stuck to his plan. Holland in Edmonton sticks to this plan. So many people sticks to their plan. As is sticking to a plan is always a winning strategy. Strangely, we often bash coaches for not adjusting to game strategies....I'd say that within an organization when your plan isn't going accordlingly, maybe they could start adjusting as well.

Marc Bergevin listened to fans way too much, it was one of my gripes with him. You could see it with his moves.

He didn't have a plan, nevermind stick to it.

Oh the Habs got beat up vs Sens in playoffs…fans and media whine about the team being soft

He drafts McCarron and Conor Crisp lol

Yep, my plan isn't their plan. My plan would be to tank even more. To take even more time with prospects. To pick up the beset players regarding the positions. And to adress needs through trades after. Clearly, that's not what they are doing. But yeah, as a fan of the team, I still hope their plan works.

I still wonder why we cannot disagree with it just because THE PLAN is theirs. If so, close the forum.

2 things

1. Disagree all you want, I'm just challenging your point of view, it's a discussion and frankly a refreshing one from the usual “send him to the AHL” don't you think?

2. Their plan is still in its infancy, I find it premature to start saying they're going down the wrong path, but that's just me.

 

[BLONG7]

Thinking Slaf pops one tonight!!
He was all over the ice last game, and had several decent chances....

 

[BaseballCoach]

Sir,

Very respectfully,

Have you had your eyes checked recently?

In the last 5 games, Slaf leads the team in slots from the slot. RDS has a stat on that today. I had not realized it, but I knew from watching the games that he was generating attack.

 

[Kennerback]

In the last 5 games, Slaf leads the team in slots from the slot. RDSD has a stat on that today. I had not realized it, but I knew from watching the games that he was generating attack.

This is very good. And instead of his throwaway passes to the slot or his short flips along the boards that are intercepted more often than not, he needs to drive the slot even more. Shoot. Get the rebound.

 

[417]

You’re comparing teenagers who didn’t play in the NHL to one that did. I don’t know any other way too explain it to you. And yes, I do think playing on a team that made it to a Memorial Cup and also playing in the World Juniors as valuable experiences for kids.

Yes, you think it's more valuable than playing against men in a European league or the Olympics or World Championships or the NHL.

Yes, I understand that you think experience against amateurs outweighs experience against professionals.

I just don't agree.

The Arber comparison is just bizarre. He was an undrafted kid who made the team because he can hit and fight. There isn’t a huge ceiling on him so I don’t know why you’re comparing him to a skilled forward who went top of his draft and does have a ceiling he’s yet to hit.

There's nothing bizarre about it...again, he fits the exact profile of what many of you call is "rushing development".

But you've got zero issues with it because he's wasn't picked 1st overall and his contributions aren't measured in goals and assists.

Both of those elements are "you" issues...you want to argue that playing 40-50 CHL games is the difference between "proper development" and "rushed development".

I find that even more bizarre.

 

[417]

There's also some physical and mental maturation between the ages of 18 and 20. The level of maturation isn't inevitable, and likely turns out better in a better environment.

Now were getting somewhere.

There is physical and mental maturation between the ages of 18 and 20 (and even beyond that if we're being honest).

It just so happens that Juraj Slafkovsky is one of the rare 18-19 years olds who IS physically mature (though of course, he still needs work in that department) and has proven to be mentally mature as well, likely due to living on his own since he was 16 years old.

If both of these elements weren't part of the equation for Slafkovsky, then I don't think he would have started in the NHL at 18.

That's also why I strongly suspect you're going to see David Reinbacher in the NHL at 19 because he is both physically and by all accounts, mentally mature.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Yes, you think it's more valuable than playing against men in a European league or the Olympics or World Championships or the NHL.

Yes, I understand that you think experience against amateurs outweighs experience against professionals.

I just don't agree.

There's nothing bizarre about it...again, he fits the exact profile of what many of you call is "rushing development".

But you've got zero issues with it because he's wasn't picked 1st overall and his contributions aren't measured in goals and assists.

Both of those elements are "you" issues...you want to argue that playing 40-50 CHL games is the difference between "proper development" and "rushed development".

I find that even more bizarre.

I never once said playing against amateurs is more valuable then professionals. It’s all situational dependent on where each player is in development. You’ve doubled down so hard on the idea that the NHL is the only option for Slafkovsky that you’ve been disrespecting just about every other league. The CHL is a fantastic development league yet you seem to want to take away all the credit from them for what they do. And the AHL has been used as bridge league to the NHL forever. Yet you don’t want to acknowledge that because MSL and Hughes know best.

 

[DAChampion]

Now were getting somewhere.

There is physical and mental maturation between the ages of 18 and 20 (and even beyond that if we're being honest).

It just so happens that Juraj Slafkovsky is one of the rare 18-19 years olds who IS physically mature (though of course, he still needs work in that department) and has proven to be mentally mature as well, likely due to living on his own since he was 16 years old.

If both of these elements weren't part of the equation for Slafkovsky, then I don't think he would have started in the NHL at 18.

That's also why I strongly suspect you're going to see David Reinbacher in the NHL at 19 because he is both physically and by all accounts, mentally mature.

I assume (no proof) that Slafkovsky wasn't actually mentally and physically mature at age 18. He was ahead of his peers, but he was immature relative to remaining growth potential.

 

[417]

I agree with you, in almost every case. I was responding to someone who wrote that Arber never had an offensive role in his entire career (literally).

I think you might be referring to me, I was saying that Arber never played the PP in junior which if i'm not mistaken, even he admitted as much.

He never played it in the OHL according to him, but MSL has insisted on playing him on the 2nd unit because he's trying to develop (in the NHL cough cough) that part of his game.

Just like he's playing Barron on the PK because he's trying to develop his defensive instincts, which if you look at the last 8-10 games for Barron, it's been working.

All of this flies in the face of those who continually push the agenda that the "NHL is not a developmental league".

It 100% is, just as much as the AHL, CHL, NCAA or European leagues. It's just some teams have more patience for it, while others can't afford it.

 

[Whitesnake]

I think you might be referring to me, I was saying that Arber never played the PP in junior which if i'm not mistaken, even he admitted as much.

He never played it in the OHL according to him, but MSL has insisted on playing him on the 2nd unit because he's trying to develop (in the NHL cough cough) that part of his game.

Just like he's playing Barron on the PK because he's trying to develop his defensive instincts, which if you look at the last 8-10 games for Barron, it's been working.

All of this flies in the face of those who continually push the agenda that the "NHL is not a developmental league".

It 100% is, just as much as the AHL, CHL, NCAA or European leagues. It's just some teams have more patience for it, while others can't afford it.

No. He was referring to me. I did say that. True that his last year, he did have offensive numbers. But so is almost every 20 year old that plays in juniors. I don,t think anybody thought Arber would be running a NHL powerplay because of it.

 

[417]

I never once said playing against amateurs is more valuable then professionals. It’s all situational dependent on where each player is in development.

Well isn't that the basis of what we've been debating?

I've been debating that development happens by osmosis no matter the level.

While you've been debating it can only happen sequentially, by level. (i.e. CHL first, then AHL and then POOF! you're NHL ready).

Unless I misunderstood, please let me know.

You’ve doubled down so hard on the idea that the NHL is the only option for Slafkovsky that you’ve been disrespecting just about every other league. The CHL is a fantastic development league yet you seem to want to take away all the credit from them for what they do. And the AHL has been used as bridge league to the NHL forever. Yet you don’t want to acknowledge that because MSL and Hughes know best.

Yet I've repeatedly said that I'm not opposed and even a few days ago, was encouraging the idea that he be sent to the AHL to find some confidence? I'd be glad to source those posts for you if you'd like, but i'm sure you saw them.

I also never disrespected any other league...

I said that the AHL is mostly comprised of replacement-level players. That is an indisputable fact, I never denied that it's by nature a developmental league. I mean, I know in their mission statement they're cooking their % of graduates up a bit IMO lol, but i'd be a fool to dispute that their existence is as a feeder league to the NHL.

I also never took credit away from the CHL...you're twisting words I didn't write and I think i'm more than capable of saying what I want to say without your interpretation, thank you though.

That's just as silly as the idea that I think MSL and Hughes knows best...you're just planting strawmen everywhere at this point lol.

I've been on record as questioning MSL usage and deployment of Slafkovsky, i'd be happy to source those posts for you too as well if you need them.

 

[417]

No. He was referring to me. I did say that. True that his last year, he did have offensive numbers. But so is almost every 20 year old that plays in juniors. I don,t think anybody thought Arber would be running a NHL powerplay because of it.

Correct...he certainly didn't.



Yet he scored 2 last year.

So again, you can't tell me that the NHL is not a developmental league. I've got verifiable proof that it is lol

 

[nhlfan9191]

Well isn't that the basis of what we've been debating?

I've been debating that development happens by osmosis no matter the level.

While you've been debating it can only happen sequentially, by level. (i.e. CHL first, then AHL and then POOF! you're NHL ready).

Unless I misunderstood, please let me know.

Yet I've repeatedly said that I'm not opposed and even a few days ago, was encouraging the idea that he be sent to the AHL to find some confidence? I'd be glad to source those posts for you if you'd like, but i'm sure you saw them.

I also never disrespected any other league...

I said that the AHL is mostly comprised of replacement-level players. That is an indisputable fact, I never denied that it's by nature a developmental league. I mean, I know in their mission statement they're cooking their % of graduates up a bit IMO lol, but i'd be a fool to dispute that their existence is as a feeder league to the NHL.

I also never took credit away from the CHL...you're twisting words I didn't write and I think i'm more than capable of saying what I want to say without your interpretation, thank you though.

That's just as silly as the idea that I think MSL and Hughes knows best...you're just planting strawmen everywhere at this point lol.

I've been on record as questioning MSL usage and deployment of Slafkovsky, i'd be happy to source those posts for you too as well if you need them.

I don’t agree that development happens threw osmosis at all and that’s why we’re clashing. And if this management group believed that, Reinbacher wouldn’t be in Europe and players like Mesar would not be in junior. And I’m not putting words in your mouth. You’ve been constantly putting down the value of the CHL when you bring up other players. Guhle is just one example where you just gloss over his time down there and immediately jump to his D-3 and D-4 and start comparing it to Slafkovsky’s D-1 and D-2.

 

[417]

I don’t agree that development happens threw osmosis at all and that’s why we’re clashing.

I'm certainly not clashing, it's called having a discussion or a debate. I clash with people I don't get along with. I've got no such feelings towards you, sir.

And if this management group believed that, Reinbacher wouldn’t be in Europe and players like Mesar would not be in junior.

Reinbacher would be in Montreal if there was a seat for him to sit in, Mesar would be in Laval if there was a seat for him to sit in.

They're both in their respective leagues because it's optimal for them (though i'm not convinced with Mesar, I think it's THAT'S a waste, but that's another debate).

And I’m not putting words in your mouth. You’ve been constantly putting down the value of the CHL when you bring up other players. Guhle is just one example where you just gloss over his time down there and immediately jump to his D-3 and D-4 and start comparing it to Slafkovsky’s D-1 and D-2.

I glossed over his time down there?

I just posted it, exactly as it was/is.

He was drafted in 2020...

He played 44 regular season WHL games + 19 WHL playoff games + 7\ WJCs games for Canada.

Those are facts.

If I was putting down the WHL, I would have said it was a shitty league, I didn't say anything of the sort. Again, i'm capable of writing my own thoughts and standing on them, I don't need you to interpret them in your own words and parrot them as my own.

You clearly missed the point...which was/is that all of these experiences, whether in the CHL, internationally, NCAA, AHL, NHL...they all serve as part of the developmental process and where we disagree is that you think it needs to happen sequentially, where I think I doesn't.

I

 

[BaseballCoach]

So again, you can't tell me that the NHL is not a developmental league. I've got verifiable proof that it is lol

Development certainly takes place, all the time. However the NHL is not a "developmental league" in the sense of prioritizing pedagogy over competition. The AHL limits the number of vets on the daily game sheet, for example.

Midget AAA baseball in Quebec is developmental. They sometimes stop games to show both teams something.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I'm certainly not clashing, it's called having a discussion or a debate. I clash with people I don't get along with. I've got no such feelings towards you, sir.

Reinbacher would be in Montreal if there was a seat for him to sit in, Mesar would be in Laval if there was a seat for him to sit in.

They're both in their respective leagues because it's optimal for them (though i'm not convinced with Mesar, I think it's THAT'S a waste, but that's another debate).

I glossed over his time down there?

I just posted it, exactly as it was/is.

He was drafted in 2020...

He played 44 regular season WHL games + 19 WHL playoff games + 7\ WJCs games for Canada.

Those are facts.

If I was putting down the WHL, I would have said it was a shitty league, I didn't say anything of the sort. Again, i'm capable of writing my own thoughts and standing on them, I don't need you to interpret them in your own words and parrot them as my own.

You clearly missed the point...which was/is that all of these experiences, whether in the CHL, internationally, NCAA, AHL, NHL...they all serve as part of the developmental process and where we disagree is that you think it needs to happen sequentially, where I think I doesn't.

I

Our right side on D last game was Barron, Kovacevic, and Harris. There’s plenty of seats for Reinbacher if they thought he was ready. They did the right thing with him.

As for the junior argument, I’m writing how I’m perceiving your points. The CHL in particular does a lot to prep young players for the NHL. The US development leagues are also excellent. Saying that players will just develop threw osmosis is taking away from what those leagues actually do.

 

[417]

Our right side on D last game was Barron, Kovacevic, and Harris. There’s plenty of seats for Reinbacher if they thought he was ready. They did the right thing with him.

Not really, and I had forgotten about Kovacevic my bad, so add another one...contractual obligations are also a factor here.

There's no room for him to play meaningful minutes in Montreal this season with all of the guys ahead of him in Montreal and in Laval.

Better FOR HIM to continue his development in Kloten.

Next season, if he has the same camp...he's making the team. It won't matter that he's 19 and hasn't played in the NHL before. Or maybe I shouldn't speak in absolutes because like I said earlier, there are contractual obligations to players beyond this season which might delay that process...but he's not far away and he's not going to need a ton of AHL time either.

Slafkovsky doesn't have the same roadblocks in front of him as a winger which makes his integration easier.

As for the junior argument, I’m writing how I’m perceiving your points. The CHL in particular does a lot to prep young players for the NHL. The US development leagues are also excellent. Saying that players will just develop threw osmosis is taking away from what those leagues actually do.

I'm glad you specified that because we all know perception, isn't reality.

And no, I don't agree that that saying that players develop through osmosis is a slight to those leagues, at least, that's not my intent.

As you said, they do a ton of work and they partly exist to have as many players graduate through their league and teams.

I'm not sure where you see the slight, but again, perception isn't necessarily reality. If I wanted to slight them, I would have and there would be no doubt, as I said, i'm capable of expressing what I feel.

 

[Habitant#1]

With Xhekaj, HuGo made it very clear that they did not want 3-4 rookies playing on defence last season. They planned to have 1-2 max and the rest in the AHL, rotation when appropriate. It was injuries that forced them to, yes, rush Xhekaj to the NHL.
Thankfully, he had the physical and emotional maturity at age 20 to be able to handle it. Not every prospect does however.
Rushing a prospect doesn't automatically damage their development, but it does carry that risk.

 

[Jaynki]

You clearly missed the point...which was/is that all of these experiences, whether in the CHL, internationally, NCAA, AHL, NHL...they all serve as part of the developmental process and where we disagree is that you think it needs to happen sequentially, where I think I doesn't.

This. This so much.

Dont know why NHL experience at 18 is seen a similar experience to guantanamo on hfhabs tho.

 

[417]

This. This so much.

Dont know why NHL experience at 18 is seen a similar experience to guantanamo on hfhabs tho.

Like to me...I've already got a lot of concerns with how they've brought Filip Mesar along.

He was drafted playing out of a Men's league in Slovakia
He then came to NA played 1 game in the AHL
Then went to the CHL for 51 games where he was by all amounts just "OK"
Then he started this year in the AHL, played 2 games, sat out a few
Then he was sent to the CHL where he's producing points

That's a lot of volatility...and to me one of the most important factors in development, is stability.

I'm not saying he's going to be ruined but I find it curious everyone seems pleased because he's putting up points but meanwhile, there are a ton of red flags there.

 

[River Meadow]

Like to me...I've already got a lot of concerns with how they've brought Filip Mesar along.

He was drafted playing out of a Men's league in Slovakia
He then came to NA played 1 game in the AHL
Then went to the CHL for 51 games where he was by all amounts just "OK"
Then he started this year in the AHL, played 2 games, sat out a few
Then he was sent to the CHL where he's producing points

That's a lot of volatility...and to me one of the most important factors in development, is stability.

I'm not saying he's going to be ruined but I find it curious everyone seems pleased because he's putting up points but meanwhile, there are a ton of red flags there.

Why?

They saw Mesar needed time in lesser leagues, and placed him there.


With Slafkowsky... not so much.

This. This so much.

Dont know why NHL experience at 18 is seen a similar experience to guantanamo on hfhabs tho.

Because Slaf hasn't done anything anywhere except for tournaments that lasted a few weeks.

 

[Jaynki]

Like to me...I've already got a lot of concerns with how they've brought Filip Mesar along.

He was drafted playing out of a Men's league in Slovakia
He then came to NA played 1 game in the AHL
Then went to the CHL for 51 games where he was by all amounts just "OK"
Then he started this year in the AHL, played 2 games, sat out a few
Then he was sent to the CHL where he's producing points

That's a lot of volatility...and to me one of the most important factors in development, is stability.

I'm not saying he's going to be ruined but I find it curious everyone seems pleased because he's putting up points but meanwhile, there are a ton of red flags there.

He is a B-prospect taking the B-prospects roads.

He might surprise next training camp and make the NHL out of the gate or not.

I don't think his development is flouted. He is where he should be. Dont think it changes much in the grand scheme of things if he played AHL or CHL. I think tho he need offensive minutes and they are not available for him right now in Laval. Better players or older prospect are trying there chance right now.

Mesar is on the clock, he need to sustain the pace and have a strong D+3 like Roy to stay relevant.

He may, or not, make it but i doubt its because we had him in a volatile environment. Its because 80% player picked at his spot fail and he won't be able to be one of the 20% who makes it simply by lack of ultimate talent.

 

[417]

Why?

They saw Mesar needed time in lesser leagues, and placed him there.

I just wrote why...a lot of volatility, playing vs men, back vs juniors, then back to playing men, then back to juniors.

Pro game vs junior game is different. It's just not the same, the habits you develop as a professional player aren't the same as when you're a junior.

Again, i'm not saying he's going to be ruined as a result of it...but i'm curious why there's not more of a concern.

Probably because he's producing points and that's the lowest hanging fruit for performance indicators...but i'll be real curious to see him at camp next season compared to this one to see what growth he had.