Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[morhilane]

Prospects like Slafkovsky typically aren’t in the NHL with the intent to babysit them. I’m trying to think of a past example where a player was this raw that spent no time in a development league and none come to my head. People like to bring up Thornton and guys like that, but they were a lot further along then Slafkovsky is now.

Thornton was babysit in the NHL on the 4th line with 8 min avg TOI in his first season of 55 games. Slaf haven't played his 55th game yet (that's tonight fyi) and had an avg TOI of 12 minutes in his first 39 games, it's up to 14:46 minutes this season so far playing on the top 6.

Even KK was more babysat over his 3 seasons here than Slafkovsky has been.

 

[cave troll]

You keep bringing up players as comparables that make zero sense. Arber and Guhle were not playing in the NHL as teenagers and they were NHL ready when they did make the team. How do those players have any relevance to a player whose spending his D-1 and D-2 seasons in the NHL when he’s clearly not ready and struggling.

It's nice when people compare the 1OA with and undrafted player.
It just shows you how they look at 1OA.

 

[417]

You keep bringing up players as comparables that make zero sense.

They make sense you've just decided to make it an exclusive club based purely on age and not hockey experience in general.

Arber and Guhle were not playing in the NHL as teenagers and they were NHL ready when they did make the team. How do those players have any relevance to a player whose spending his D-1 and D-2 seasons in the NHL when he’s clearly not ready and struggling.

Slafkovsky his draft year split time between the U20 SM Liiga/SM Liiga/Slovakian National Team both Men’s and Juniors/Olympics

Xhekaj went from UNDRAFTED CHL player, to regular NHL Dman over 12 months. From the time he signed his ELC with the Habs in October 2021, to when he made his debut with the Habs in 2022..

He played a TOTAL of 51 OHL games.

Kaiden Guhle was drafted in 2020 and between then and when he made his debut as a regular 20+ min Dman in the NHL, in 2022..

He played a TOTAL of 44 WHL regular season games + 19 playoff games + 7 WJC games.

What are we doing here lol? That's the difference between them and Slafkovsky? Not even a full season worth of CHL hockey?

Come on man lol

Is the argument here that if Slafkovsky played 50 games in Eerie last year, he would be leading the Habs in points right now???

Really?

 

[Whitesnake]

They're doing the same with Arber Xhekaj and people seem fine with it.

But he's not a 1OA pick and as long as he continues to be physical and punches people in the face, the chicken little effect we’re seeing with Slafkovsky doesn't manifest itself.

You could argue they did the same with Guhle who barely played any hockey over 2.5 years because of COVID and injuries and they thrust him into a big role right off the bat with no time in “a developmental league”.

Xhekaj isn't suppose to be a top 2 d-man that will be a crucial part of saving that franchise. Xhekaj is physically mature. Not often on the wrong end of hits. Nobody expected Xhekaj. Him being a serviceable No 6 that could punch people in the face is EXACTLY what we expect from him and what he is pencilled to do. And if he does more, it's gravy.

Remove the 1OA effect. Have Slaf picked No10. First....do you still think he's in the NHL? You say people have a different analysis on Slaf simply because he was picked No1. I say that this management has a different analysis on Slaf because he was picked No1.

Geez, Reinbacher is in Europe right now. Why? Why couldn't he held his own in the NHL? You say that your stance has nothing to do with trusting the management. Of course it is. Strangely enough you are in agreement with what they do in that regard. Most of your points aren't about what you think on the subject. When you do, even you said that you wouldn't have been against Slaf in the AHL. In the end, it's all about trusting the process. Well I'd say people who still employs the scouting crew that Bergevin had, and decided to go with a Bobrov-Lapointe tandem deserved to be analysed and not blindly trusted.

 

[417]

It's nice when people compare the 1OA with and undrafted player.
It just shows you how they look at 1OA.

You really struggle with the concept of comparisons eh?

I was comparing how they have similar approaches to development. How they are both raw in their own right but the team is bringing them along slowly.

I was not comparing them to each other as players smdh.

But I suspect you know that, but it's funnier to get jokes off.

I get it lol

 

[Jaynki]

Marty was a great story when he played. I just fail to see the relevance when we link it to coaching. Especially when you start anointing him a unicorn. Gretzky was the greatest player of all time and it took him just a few years to find out he was a terrible coach. And St. Louis definitely would’ve benefitted from coaching all over the place. The job requires a lot of experience. There’s a reason that NHL GM’s recycle the same coaches. It’s easier to hire someone who already has that experience then build someone new up.

As for Hughes, he was an agent. Your comment comes across a sales pitch. I like Hughes and I think we’ve already seen some of the benefits of having a former agent as a GM. But we really don’t know how good he is at this point. We haven’t seen enough.


Prospects like Slafkovsky typically aren’t in the NHL with the intent to babysit them. I’m trying to think of a past example where a player was this raw that spent no time in a development league and none come to my head. People like to bring up Thornton and guys like that, but they were a lot further along then Slafkovsky is now.

I agree with your points that we still have to see what they can do in the NHL. Their experience as player and agent is not a guarantee of success in their current role. Encouraging if anything.

But from the pure coaching point of view, in my opinion, MSL has all the experience required. Its also much more about influence and leadership and clearly MSL score very high there.

 

[417]

Xhekaj isn't suppose to be a top 2 d-man that will be a crucial part of saving that franchise. Xhekaj is physically mature. Not often on the wrong end of hits. Nobody expected Xhekaj. Him being a serviceable No 6 that could punch people in the face is EXACTLY what we expect from him and what he is pencilled to do. And if he does more, it's gravy.

That's unfortunate, he can be so much more than a face puncher.

But I guess we’ll never know since according to how you all view development, he's doomed to be a face puncher for the rest of his career.

He never went to Laval to QB a PP, he never played on the PP in the OHL…how could be possibly do that in the NHL, oh….wait…

Remove the 1OA effect. Have Slaf picked No10. First....do you still think he's in the NHL? You say people have a different analysis on Slaf simply because he was picked No1. I say that this management has a different analysis on Slaf because he was picked No1.

I wish people could remove the 1OA effect…I know I have.

I guess that's why I'm not as troubled by the lack of production.

What about you?

Geez, Reinbacher is in Europe right now. Why? Why couldn't he held his own in the NHL? You say that your stance has nothing to do with trusting the management. Of course it is. Strangely enough you are in agreement with what they do in that regard. Most of your points aren't about what you think on the subject. When you do, even you said that you wouldn't have been against Slaf in the AHL.

If there was room on the NHL roster for Reinbacher, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have made it at 18.

But with Savard/Barron/Harris/Lindstrom/Mailloux…better for him to be in Europe.

Don't be surprised if he's on the team next year and we can all start doing what we do best and worry about how it will ruin him.

And no, my trust is irrelevant lol I'm just a fan what I think should never influence what management and coaches do lol

I don't feel that entitled man lol

In the end, it's all about trusting the process. Well I'd say people who still employs the scouting crew that Bergevin had, and decided to go with a Bobrov-Lapointe tandem deserved to be analysed and not blindly trusted.

See above…they don't need to worry about my trust.

They just need to stick to the conviction of their plan. THEY need to trust THEIR process. That's why THEY were hired, to execute THEIR plan lol.

If it backfires, they will be judged and held accountable, accordingly by their employers.

I or you, don't have that much influence even if you've convinced yourself that you do.

 

[cave troll]

You really struggle with the concept of comparisons eh?

I was comparing how they have similar approaches to development. How they are both raw in their own right but the team is bringing them along slowly.

I was not comparing them to each other as players smdh.

But I suspect you know that, but it's funnier to get jokes off.

I get it lol

With the difference that Xhekaj at 21 was still playing in junior hockey.

 

[Jaynki]

Show evidence that it didn't help. Show evidence that when MaxPac himself said that he wanted to have a stint in the AHL to get his game going didn't help him. How is half of a year in a pro hockey environment do not help.....but now some people think that because Mesar has the stats he has in JUNIORS after 8 games he's suddenly back?

I could not care less about how good a player in junior is in his D+2. The real test will be next year for him. If he don't make the team out of camp, he will have to perform like Roy to stay relevant. The clock is ticking fast for him.

As for the rest, there is no way to prove how the NHL have ruined a talent or how the NCAA/AHL have benefitted another.

Plenty of example prove and contradict each point.

To me, there is upside in both scenario. Ultimately, i believe the player will become who he is. It would be very nice if we had this influence over someone career.

Like, hey this guy was meant to be a bust but we developed him so well or the opposite like this guy was a stellar talent and we ruined him. That makes no sense to me.

I do believe in development and optimisation, but not to the extent we make it to be here.

 

[417]

With the difference that Xhekaj at 21 was still playing in junior hockey.

EXACTLY!

 

[River Meadow]

EXACTLY!

Which is probably where Slafkovsky should be...

Juniors and/or AHL and/or anywhere but the NHL.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Which is probably where Slafkovsky should be...

Juniors and/or AHL and/or anywhere but the NHL.

Slaf belongs in the NHL. It is obvious to the eye, even if his production lags. Sending him to a weak league will just delay his adjustment to the best league in the world. He is creating plays, more than several forwards. Let him be. In another year, he may be a critical part of a playoff run.

 

[River Meadow]

Slaf belongs in the NHL. It is obvious to the eye, even if his production lags. Sending him to a weak league will just delay his adjustment to the best league in the world. He is creating plays, more than several forwards. Let him be. In another year, he may be a critical part of a playoff run.

Sir,

Very respectfully,

Have you had your eyes checked recently?

 

[Whitesnake]

That's unfortunate, he can be so much more than a face puncher.

But I guess we’ll never know since according to how you all view development, he's doomed to be a face puncher for the rest of his career.

He never went to Laval to QB a PP, he never played on the PP in the OHL…how could be possibly do that in the NHL, oh….wait…



I wish people could remove the 1OA effect…I know I have.

I guess that's why I'm not as troubled by the lack of production.

What about you?

If there was room on the NHL roster for Reinbacher, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have made it at 18.

But with Savard/Barron/Harris/Lindstrom/Mailloux…better for him to be in Europe.

Don't be surprised if he's on the team next year and we can all start doing what we do best and worry about how it will ruin him.

And no, my trust is irrelevant lol I'm just a fan what I think should never influence what management and coaches do lol

I don't feel that entitled man lol

See above…they don't need to worry about my trust.

They just need to stick to the conviction of their plan.

If it backfires, they will be judged and held accountable, accordingly by their employers.

I or you, don't have that much influence even if you've convinced yourself that you do.

I guess he could be more than a face puncher. It's probably why he insists to be called the Sheriff....I guess it has to do with how many goals he'll scored....I'm pretty sure I did say that everything else than a bottom 2 d-man and a face puncher was the expectations and everything else was gravy...and gravy does happen sometimes. Do you think I'd be mad if somehow he becomes more than that? What I expect from Arber? It,s be a physical presence. Great defensively. And yep, maybe some Pp time because he has that strength of his to find the shooting lanes. If he does all that...do you not think though that it wouldn't be gravy based on the fact that he never was drafted. And never had any offensive role since the beginning of his career? Do you think it's the norm or the exception?

What about me as far as Lack of production? Do you actually read my posts? Do you want me to go back at finding posts responding to YOU about how his lack of production is not what strikes me the most about him? Having said that....this is who he is suppose to become. A point producer. Point producing needs confidence. See Caufield with Ducharme. My humble self think that a trip to the AHL could get that going. Sue me. But I see that you didn't respond to my post...if he's not No1....does the team have him in the NHL? When you say you wish people would do that...do you think of the team too?

As far as the whole gaslight point about me, you having influence over the team's decisions...I have no idea where you are going with this. This is a hockey forum. We discuss things. Where, when, and how have I expressed that because I say things on a hockeky forum that nobody reads that I'm expecting Martin St-Louis to change his lineup or that Bobrov starts drafting by BPA. Where? Have you once saw my post addressed to any of those guys? lol

Marc Bergevin stuck to his plan. Holland in Edmonton sticks to this plan. So many people sticks to their plan. As is sticking to a plan is always a winning strategy. Strangely, we often bash coaches for not adjusting to game strategies....I'd say that within an organization when your plan isn't going accordlingly, maybe they could start adjusting as well.

Yep, my plan isn't their plan. My plan would be to tank even more. To take even more time with prospects. To pick up the beset players regarding the positions. And to adress needs through trades after. Clearly, that's not what they are doing. But yeah, as a fan of the team, I still hope their plan works.

I still wonder why we cannot disagree with it just because THE PLAN is theirs. If so, close the forum.

 

[417]

Which is probably where Slafkovsky should be...

Juniors and/or AHL and/or anywhere but the NHL.

But he ain't...time to accept it

 

[BaseballCoach]

I guess he could be more than a face puncher. It's probably why he insists to be called the Sheriff....I guess it has to do with how many goals he'll scored....I'm pretty sure I did say that everything else than a bottom 2 d-man and a face puncher was the expectations and everything else was gravy...and gravy does happen sometimes. Do you think I'd be mad if somehow he becomes more than that? What I expect from Arber? It,s be a physical presence. Great defensively. And yep, maybe some Pp time because he has that strength of his to find the shooting lanes. If he does all that...do you not think though that it wouldn't be gravy based on the fact that he never was drafted. And never had any offensive role since the beginning of his career? Do you think it's the norm or the exception?

Xhekaj had an offensive role his last year in Junior.

0.67 ppg in the RS.

0.90 ppg in the playoffs.

 

[nhlfan9191]

They make sense you've just decided to make it an exclusive club based purely on age and not hockey experience in general.

Slafkovsky his draft year split time between the U20 SM Liiga/SM Liiga/Slovakian National Team both Men’s and Juniors/Olympics

Xhekaj went from UNDRAFTED CHL player, to regular NHL Dman over 12 months. From the time he signed his ELC with the Habs in October 2021, to when he made his debut with the Habs in 2022..

He played a TOTAL of 51 OHL games.

Kaiden Guhle was drafted in 2020 and between then and when he made his debut as a regular 20+ min Dman in the NHL, in 2022..

He played a TOTAL of 44 WHL regular season games + 19 playoff games + 7 WJC games.

What are we doing here lol? That's the difference between them and Slafkovsky? Not even a full season worth of CHL hockey?

Come on man lol

Is the argument here that if Slafkovsky played 50 games in Eerie last year, he would be leading the Habs in points right now???

Really?

You’re comparing teenagers who didn’t play in the NHL to one that did. I don’t know any other way too explain it to you. And yes, I do think playing on a team that made it to a Memorial Cup and also playing in the World Juniors as valuable experiences for kids. The Arber comparison is just bizarre. He was an undrafted kid who made the team because he can hit and fight. There isn’t a huge ceiling on him so I don’t know why you’re comparing him to a skilled forward who went top of his draft and does have a ceiling he’s yet to hit.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I actually don't think that Elias' D+1 would have been a big difference maker. It obviously didn't hurt him, but in his D year he had an NHLe of about 28 (Bedard had 33 and Carlsson had 23 for comparison) which is as clear a marker as any that the guy is about NHL ready. His D+1 year confirmed that when he put up an NHLe of about 50. I think we can say that a player with such a high rating (practically impossible when Bedard is achieving just over half of that) was NHL ready to begin with.

The most generous NHLe estimate I could come up with for Slaf (taking into account his tournaments) was about 15 or 16 (much less without his tournaments). Forwards with this equivalence are much less likely to be NHL ready. Some are (like Tkachuk), some aren't (like KK). That's why I wanted Slaf to prove it in another league first.

YMMV.

 

[Colezuki]

Sir,

Very respectfully,

Have you had your eyes checked recently?

I saw him against vancouver,

He looked like he belonged but was fatigued

 

[Whitesnake]

I could not care less about how good a player in junior is in his D+2. The real test will be next year for him. If he don't make the team out of camp, he will have to perform like Roy to stay relevant. The clock is ticking fast for him.

As for the rest, there is no way to prove how the NHL have ruined a talent or how the NCAA/AHL have benefitted another.

Plenty of example prove and contradict each point.

To me, there is upside in both scenario. Ultimately, i believe the player will become who he is. It would be very nice if we had this influence over someone career.

Like, hey this guy was meant to be a bust but we developed him so well or the opposite like this guy was a stellar talent and we ruined him. That makes no sense to me.

I do believe in development and optimisation, but not to the extent we make it to be here.

I also believe that a great player is a great player nonetheless. For sure, when a guy has in him to be talented and a real hockey player, sure, no matter the league he plays in....chances are he will be there. Yet....that's me talking. While scouts, pro scouts, are always telling us that the draft is a crapshoot...and that the rest goes to development.

Personnally, with all that happened with our top end players, I would have chose the road of being careful. I will acknowledge that the only top end players that make it at 18 are mostly exceptionnals. I would have acknowledge that Slaf had so many things to learn that he should have done it at a lower level. Just to be as sure as possible.

The point made lately that taking your time is no guarantee is moot. It's not about that. That's the reality. If everybody would make it because they play in the AHL we would need 3 leagues....Of course they won't all make it. But it's not because they can't develop. It's because they are just not good enough.

A 1st overall is suppose to be good enough. And the only thing between him and a succesful career is development. They think he'll develop better in the NHL. I hope he does.

Sir,

Very respectfully,

Have you had your eyes checked recently?

Last game was his best game. Now....is it a sign of better things to come and finally evolving into who we all hope he will? Or a fluke? We will see. But last game was fun to see. Now he needs to add confidence, and still obviously has some timing to work on big time.

 

[Whitesnake]

Xhekaj had an offensive role his last year in Junior.

0.67 ppg in the RS.

0.90 ppg in the playoffs.

The worst of fillers in the NHL have offensive roles in juniors as 20 year olds.

 

[Jaynki]

I also believe that a great player is a great player nonetheless. For sure, when a guy has in him to be talented and a real hockey player, sure, no matter the league he plays in....chances are he will be there. Yet....that's me talking. While scouts, pro scouts, are always telling us that the draft is a crapshoot...and that the rest goes to development.

Personnally, with all that happened with our top end players, I would have chose the road of being careful. I will acknowledge that the only top end players that make it at 18 are mostly exceptionnals. I would have acknowledge that Slaf had so many things to learn that he should have done it at a lower level. Just to be as sure as possible.

The point made lately that taking your time is no guarantee is moot. It's not about that. That's the reality. If everybody would make it because they play in the AHL we would need 3 leagues....Of course they won't all make it. But it's not because they can't develop. It's because they are just not good enough.

A 1st overall is suppose to be good enough. And the only thing between him and a succesful career is development. They think he'll develop better in the NHL. I hope he does.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

If Slafkovsky is in the NHL because management felt pressure, they all need to be looking for a new job.

I would hope and guess that’s not the reason.

No i don't think they did it for fan pressure this time since everybody knew he was a project coming in, he probably does things consistently in practice that MSL thinks he can really work with which gives me a bit of hope

 

[Whitesnake]

True though that I know from now on I will stop advocating for him to go down. I mean...the kid was struggling big time and they never flinched....with the last game he had...there's just no chances he'll ever be demoted. And he won't be next year too then or else you have another potential JK scenario on the horizon.

I said my point. I'm done.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The worst of fillers in the NHL have offensive roles in juniors as 20 year olds.

I agree with you, in almost every case. I was responding to someone who wrote that Arber never had an offensive role in his entire career (literally).