Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[417]

It’s funny you mention Arber who is three years older than Slafkovsky, and who also only really developed a little later than most prospects. At Slaf’s age Arber was overlooked by every nhl team.

It’s still early

Not to mention if I had told Habs fans 3 years ago that they'd sign this undrafted free agent camp invite to a 3yr ELC and they'd have him skip the AHL all together to jump straight into the NHL where he would be regularly confronted by fighting experienced NHL enforcers…

They'd have had a conniption.

 

[nhlfan9191]

1. Those D+1 and D+2 season can be done in both the NHL and lower league.

The narrative that a player will unlock more upside by dominating lower league is not demonstrable.

The narrative that a player will bust if he plays in the NHL is also not demonstrable.

There is plenty of evidence of players who have been rushed according to this board standard, who reached their ceiling. Just like there is a plenty of evidence of players stagnating in lower league.

Its a debate that is pretty much equivalent to how his tape job may influence his game. Slafkovsky will develop into the player he was meant to be.

2. Voila. So lets wait for the fact before doing revisionist history like we are not handling him correctly and are ruining him.

3. Blind faith is unhealthy. Just like the constant blind hate that is omnipresent here.

To me, its benefit of the doubt.

Does anyone ever actually say the bolded? The only time I ever see that brought up is when people are trying to defend managements decision to keep Slaf in the NHL. Sending Slafkovsky down has nothing to do with him dominating another league. It’s much more complex then that.

 

[Jaynki]

Does anyone ever actually say the bolded? The only time I ever see that brought up is when people are trying to defend managements decision to keep Slaf in the NHL. Sending Slafkovsky down has nothing to do with him dominating another league. It’s much more complex then that.

Yes

 

[Jaynki]

Not to mention if I had told Habs fans 3 years ago that they'd sign this undrafted free agent camp invite to a 3yr ELC and they'd have him skip the AHL all together to jump straight into the NHL where he would be regularly confronted by fighting experienced NHL enforcers…

They'd have had a conniption.

The poor fella probably would risk having a life threatening injury!

 

[George Lebay]

Just came here to make sure the thread was among the top five. Everything seems fine.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Yes

Going off what we’ve seen in the NHL, he would not dominate the AHL. And even if he did start skating around players like he’s playing on easy difficulty, he could always be brought back up. It happens all the time. It’s a simple transaction which tells us Marty St. Louis and HuGo are following their own script. We’ve been burned to many times over the years by bone headed management for me to fully trust them. A rookie coach and GM with no track record don’t exactly in-still a lot of confidence.

 

[DAChampion]

You didn't address the thread or question.

This isn't about Petersson vs Slafkovsky necessarily or what age both of them started.

Would love to reas your and others thoughts on this.

I can't read the thread, I only see the opening post for some reason. Sorry.

 

[cave troll]

Do you think this remains true regardless of whether or not he stayed an extra year?

Or do you really think, like the author of that tweet, that he became what he is because he played, *checks notes*, an extra 57 SHL games?

What if say he had gotten injured the first game of that additional year and missed the whole season as a result?

Do you think his story would be different?

What about all the HUNDREDS of European prospects drafted EVERY YEAR, who have the exact same path, but they never make it to the NHL?




Can you find me this quote? Cause I don't recall this…also calling a player whose player whose playing in Liiga at 18 “a player of no consequence”, is nasty, nasty work!


That still doesn't provide the evidence in question.

You're reaching a conclusion absent of evidence.

Which is fine, you're assuming…but that doesn't make it undisputable.

How would you call a player who was 188th in the league in PPG?
A player of consequence? A top player?
Petterson at 18 was Top 5 player in 2nd league and at 19 was the best player in SHL and one of best in Europe. That's a player of consequence.
Also, Nucks 5th OA played D+1 in SHL, just like our 5th OA plays D+1 in Switzerland. What's the problem with that?
You think Petterson would have been better if he was thrown into AHL instead of SHL and Euro CHL, or if he was put into Nucks roster straight from Swedish 2nd league?

But we are comapring two players with a huge diffrence in hockey skill. Petterson, the moment he joned NHL was around point per game player and now is on a path of a caeerer 100+ pts player.

 

[Jaynki]

Going off what we’ve seen in the NHL, he would not dominate the AHL. And even if he did start skating around players like he’s playing on easy difficulty, he could always be brought back up. It happens all the time. It’s a simple transaction which tells us Marty St. Louis and HuGo are following their own script. We’ve been burned to many times over the years by bone headed management for me to fully trust them. A rookie coach and GM with no track record don’t exactly in-still a lot of confidence.

Marty St. Louis is the unicorn in the hockey world. Kent Hughes was one of the most influential agent in the hockey world. As an agent, he was an expert in player development. MSL had 100 AHL games before becoming a SC winner and HOFer.

I would say they have quite the experience and knowledge on the subject although indeed, no track record in their current spot.

They have nothing to do with the former administration and how things have been done in the past. I would rather give them the benefit of the doubt rather than go against them with what the data we have so far.

The way you frame the AHL-NHL debate in your argument imply that its only performance based.

I firmly believe that they are indeed following their script and that a lot of emphasis is put into Slafkovsky learning the good reflexes and profesionalising his game to be an effective player, and like MSL stated, by playing this way, the points will become a secondary effect.

Cooley, despite the PP pass he is getting, also has to go through that process and when we call-up Roy, he will also have to go through that process.

The NHL speed, pace, forecheck, toughness cannot be replicated. Where one see struggle, loss of confidence, another one sees learning, invaluable experience, path to become a great player

 

[417]

Does anyone ever actually say the bolded? The only time I ever see that brought up is when people are trying to defend managements decision to keep Slaf in the NHL. Sending Slafkovsky down has nothing to do with him dominating another league. It’s much more complex then that.

Yes, all the time lol

 

[Deebs]

Did they send him down yet?

 

[nhlfan9191]

Marty St. Louis is the unicorn in the hockey world. Kent Hughes was one of the most influential agent in the hockey world. As an agent, he was an expert in player development. MSL had 100 AHL games before becoming a SC winner and HOFer.

I would say they have quite the experience and knowledge on the subject although indeed, no track record in their current spot.

They have nothing to do with the former administration and how things have been done in the past. I would rather give them the benefit of the doubt rather than go against them with what the data we have so far.

What Marty did as a player is irrelevant. How many legends have we seen look stupid in managerial positions? It’s not a great look when a coach whose background is coaching peewee starts trying to reinvent the wheel on player development at the NHL level. But I’m curious, what is it about St. Louis that makes him the unicorn you talk about? And find it interesting calling Kent Hughes an agent that was an expert in player development. Kent’s job was to get players paid. How does that play into player development?

 

[Egresch]

The 2022 Draft was uniquely bad, wasn't it? That's what some of the commentators say. If you want to defer to historical trends but also ignore Slafkovsky's inauspicious point production trends that tells me you're not interested in avoiding narrative building.

2022 draft was uniquely bad because these kids missed full year of development due to Covid, so you cannot really compare them to anything from history. Yet, this should be another reason to not rush Slaf to NHL.
When comparing him to Pettersson, you can also compare him to other Swedish Canuck. Daniel Sedin, who had even better draft year than Pettersson, stayed in Sweden for his D+1 for proper development, yet it took him up to D+5 to really start producing in NHL.

 

[417]

How would you call a player who was 188th in the league in PPG?
A player of consequence? A top player?

An 18 year old player, whose a regular player in a European league known for it's defense and reluctance to play young players.

It's called context.

Petterson at 18 was Top 5 player in 2nd league and at 19 was the best player in SHL and one of best in Europe. That's a player of consequence.
Also, Nucks 5th OA played D+1 in SHL, just like our 5th OA plays D+1 in Switzerland. What's the problem with that?
You think Petterson would have been better if he was thrown into AHL instead of SHL and Euro CHL, or if he was put into Nucks roster straight from Swedish 2nd league?

I think Elias Petterson is insanely talented and that's why he is who he is today.

Not because he happened to play 57 SHL games D+1 where he was excellent.

But we are comapring two players with a huge diffrence in hockey skill. Petterson, the moment he joned NHL was around point per game player and now is on a path of a caeerer 100+ pts player.

I never compared both players, you did.

 

[Jaynki]

What Marty did as a player is irrelevant. How many legends have we seen look stupid in managerial positions? It’s not a great look when a coach whose background is coaching peewee starts trying to reinvent the wheel on player development at the NHL level. But I’m curious, what is it about St. Louis that makes him the unicorn you talk about? And find it interesting calling Kent Hughes an agent that was an expert in player development. Kent’s job was to get players paid. How does that play into player development?

Martin St. Louis has the most unique career path there is. He is one of the most intelligent player in the game who showed resilience like no one else. Undersized in the era of goon, undrafted AHL 4th liner to the best player in the league with Crosby in his prime.

I guess you are right, like Slafkovsky going to the AHL, Martin St. Louis probably would have had benefitted a lot from coaching the Shawinigan Cataractes for a year or two. Like his only background is coaching pee wee. Such strong argument to fit the narratives.

Hughes job as an agent is not just about contract negotiations. Its about scouting young talent and then building relationship with them. Surrounding and developping them so they can reach their maximum. They counsel a lot. Its not just about contract negotiations. He also represented, mega star, 2nd RDer that started at 18(Bergeron), player who became career, AHLer, etc.

 

[lillypad33]

What Marty did as a player is irrelevant. How many legends have we seen look stupid in managerial positions? It’s not a great look when a coach whose background is coaching peewee starts trying to reinvent the wheel on player development at the NHL level. But I’m curious, what is it about St. Louis that makes him the unicorn you talk about? And find it interesting calling Kent Hughes an agent that was an expert in player development. Kent’s job was to get players paid. How does that play into player development?

Why do you say he's reinventing the wheel?

 

[Deebs]

Martin St. Louis has the most unique career path there is. He is one of the most intelligent player in the game who showed resilience like no one else. Undersized in the era of goon, undrafted AHL 4th liner to the best player in the league with Crosby in his prime.

I guess you are right, like Slafkovsky going to the AHL, Martin St. Louis probably would have had benefitted a lot from coaching the Shawinigan Cataractes for a year or two.

Hughes job as an agent is not just about contract negotiations. Its about scouting young talent and then building relationship with them. Surrounding and developping them so they can reach their maximum. They counsel a lot. Its not just about contract negotiations. He also represented, mega star, 2nd RDer that started at 18(Bergeron), player who became career, AHLer, etc.

So how long have you been employed by the team? lol j/k

 

[nhlfan9191]

Martin St. Louis has the most unique career path there is. He is one of the most intelligent player in the game who showed resilience like no one else. Undersized in the era of goon, undrafted AHL 4th liner to the best player in the league with Crosby in his prime.

I guess you are right, like Slafkovsky going to the AHL, Martin St. Louis probably would have had benefitted a lot from coaching the Shawinigan Cataractes for a year or two. Like his only background is coaching pee wee. Such strong argument to fit the narratives.

Hughes job as an agent is not just about contract negotiations. Its about scouting young talent and then building relationship with them. Surrounding and developping them so they can reach their maximum. They counsel a lot. Its not just about contract negotiations. He also represented, mega star, 2nd RDer that started at 18(Bergeron), player who became career, AHLer, etc.

Marty was a great story when he played. I just fail to see the relevance when we link it to coaching. Especially when you start anointing him a unicorn. Gretzky was the greatest player of all time and it took him just a few years to find out he was a terrible coach. And St. Louis definitely would’ve benefitted from coaching all over the place. The job requires a lot of experience. There’s a reason that NHL GM’s recycle the same coaches. It’s easier to hire someone who already has that experience then build someone new up.

As for Hughes, he was an agent. Your comment comes across a sales pitch. I like Hughes and I think we’ve already seen some of the benefits of having a former agent as a GM. But we really don’t know how good he is at this point. We haven’t seen enough.

Why do you say he's reinventing the wheel?

Prospects like Slafkovsky typically aren’t in the NHL with the intent to babysit them. I’m trying to think of a past example where a player was this raw that spent no time in a development league and none come to my head. People like to bring up Thornton and guys like that, but they were a lot further along then Slafkovsky is now.

 

[Jamaican Patty]

Did they send him down yet?

Yes they did.

 

[417]

Going off what we’ve seen in the NHL, he would not dominate the AHL. And even if he did start skating around players like he’s playing on easy difficulty, he could always be brought back up. It happens all the time. It’s a simple transaction which tells us Marty St. Louis and HuGo are following their own script. We’ve been burned to many times over the years by bone headed management for me to fully trust them. A rookie coach and GM with no track record don’t exactly in-still a lot of confidence.

Whose script should they follow? Lol

It's THEIR team, not ours lol. As in they are running and coaching the Montreal Canadiens.

They should always make decisions based on their script.

 

[Whitesnake]

Show evidence that he would have busted if he had a 57 sheltered NHL games instead of 57 SHL games in his D+1 instead.

Show evidence that it didn't help. Show evidence that when MaxPac himself said that he wanted to have a stint in the AHL to get his game going didn't help him. How is half of a year in a pro hockey environment do not help.....but now some people think that because Mesar has the stats he has in JUNIORS after 8 games he's suddenly back?

 

[NORiculous]

So how long have you been employed by the team? lol j/k

Sometimes I wonder about some posters who just push the team narrative all the time.

 

[417]

Prospects like Slafkovsky typically aren’t in the NHL with the intent to babysit them. I’m trying to think of a past example where a player was this raw that spent no time in a development league and none come to my head. People like to bring up Thornton and guys like that, but they were a lot further along then Slafkovsky is now.

They're doing the same with Arber Xhekaj and people seem fine with it.

But he's not a 1OA pick and as long as he continues to be physical and punches people in the face, the chicken little effect we’re seeing with Slafkovsky doesn't manifest itself.

You could argue they did the same with Guhle who barely played any hockey over 2.5 years because of COVID and injuries and they thrust him into a big role right off the bat with no time in “a developmental league”.

 

[cave troll]

Its ridiculous to poo on Petterson SHL stint.

I can't believe people are shilling for THIS organisation, of all organisations in the world this is really the one you're gonna trust when it comes to player development.

Asking for proof that Peterssons D+1 helped him........I can't believe it.

People are pooing on Petterson D+1 in SHL while we have our 5th OA playing D+1 in a weaker league than SHL.
Petterson was the best scorer and player in SHL, won the championship and ended 2nd in Champion's league, while our 5th OA dwells in a bottom feeder team in NLA fightng not to be relegated.
We can all guess why our 5th OA probably won't have the similar impact in NHL like Petterson had?

 

[nhlfan9191]

They're doing the same with Arber Xhekaj and people seem fine with it.

But he's not a 1OA pick and as long as he continues to be physical and punches people in the face, the chicken little effect we’re seeing with Slafkovsky doesn't manifest itself.

You could argue they did the same with Guhle who barely played any hockey over 2.5 years because of COVID and injuries and they thrust him into a big role right off the bat with no time in “a developmental league”.

You keep bringing up players as comparables that make zero sense. Arber and Guhle were not playing in the NHL as teenagers and they were NHL ready when they did make the team. How do those players have any relevance to a player whose spending his D-1 and D-2 seasons in the NHL when he’s clearly not ready and struggling.