July 1st recap: Now and the Future

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

This just puts a period on this last run.
Loosing Boyle is horrific. Even if it meant giving him a longer term he should have never been allowed to go.

Boyle said he wanted/wants a bigger role. He's wasn't/isn't going to get that here.

 

[Fletch]

Tough to say how the team looks "on paper," especially considering its not done being constructed yet.

That said, some of those dark ages teams looked OK on paper and wound up sucking. Its why they play the games.

I will say this - outside of maybe Miller, Im not convinced theres one kid that can effectively lock down a roster spot. Theres still wholes in the bottom 6 and more NHL warm bodies will be needed (literally anyone would've been better than Tanner Glass)

I think the bolded is key. Of course, things could still get worse in our eyes depending on what is done. Change had to happen. We can debate what changes should be made, but you are limited in what can be done and have a lot to cover. Sather did not position the team well going into this offseason, while at the same time finding gems a couple years ago who now priced themselves out of RangerLand. He needs to find those gems again and get it going. And on paper, one may say that the Stepan line will produce the same as last season - what isn't taken into consideration with that statement is, how have other teams improved this offseason, or deteriorated, and how will that affect how the Rangers play? That's the big variable we don't talk about. The Rangers' Stanley Cup team had holes. Yes, they went to the finals, but if you played the playoffs again against the same teams, with the same lineups, you probably don't get the same outcome each time. Even with Stralman and Boyle I would not expect the same outcome (and they still would need to replace Richards' 51 points and still would need to find a Poo replacement).

 

[Cake or Death]

Boyle said he wanted/wants a bigger role. He's wasn't/isn't going to get that here.

Pretty much. I have a strong hunch Boyle will be in a near identical role in TB, since that is really all his skill set warrants. I personally think Dom Moore was the more vital line 4 player to bring back, and Moore is a trooper that will play whatever situation the team needs.

 

[Zamboner]

Loosing Boyle is horrific. Even if it meant giving him a longer term he should have never been allowed to go.

You don't pay $2M for a 4th liner under any circumstances. And bumping him up to the Top 9 means the Top 9 just got significantly weaker. Letting Boyle walk is just smart hockey. With a lot of good PKers on the roster, like Prust before him, where similar things were written about him when he walked, we'll barely miss Brian Boyle.

Zuke/Brassard made Pouliot. I don't see his replacement yet, but I don't think that'll be hard to find.

Losing Stralman will hurt. Klein/Danny Boyle will fill in pretty admirably, though. And if, and this is a big if, Boyle works out on the PP, this might be the right move. I'm doing the wait and see there. Undertaker has to work out now, which a little worrisome for me, as a guy not big on Taker.

 

[Fletch]

Pretty much. I have a strong hunch Boyle will be in a near identical role in TB, since that is really all his skill set warrants. I personally think Dom Moore was the more vital line 4 player to bring back, and Moore is a trooper that will play whatever situation the team needs.

That's tough to say. Sometimes I think that Boyle's big body helped out a lot, especially in the playoffs. I also think Boyle is a bit better offensively, but that didn't show up on the score sheet so often. Maybe I'm thinking Boyle will eventually convert more chances, of which he created quite a few. Moore's speed ability to go all around the ice and keep the puck in the offensive zone w a plus. Perhaps it was the pairing of the two that I liked, and not any one particular player.

 

[Fletch]

You don't pay $2M for a 4th liner under any circumstances. And bumping him up to the Top 9 means the Top 9 just got significantly weaker. Letting Boyle walk is just smart hockey. With a lot of good PKers on the roster, like Prust before him, where similar things were written about him when he walked, we'll barely miss Brian Boyle.

Zuke/Brassard made Pouliot. I don't see his replacement yet, but I don't think that'll be hard to find.

Losing Stralman will hurt. Klein/Danny Boyle will fill in pretty admirably, though. And if, and this is a big if, Boyle works out on the PP, this might be the right move. I'm doing the wait and see there. Undertaker has to work out now, which a little worrisome for me, as a guy not big on Taker.

How much will they even have to spend on this replacement? Finding 15 goals in 13 1/2 minutes of ice time isn't easy. His PP production is likely easier to replace than his ES production.

 

[Zamboner]

How much will they even have to spend on this replacement? Finding 15 goals in 13 1/2 minutes of ice time isn't easy. His PP production is likely easier to replace than his ES production.

I don't know. Pouliot was only a $1.3M reclamation project, though. Not that I'm taking that for granted, like it's so easy to do, but it's not like people were throwing money at Pouliot before he got here. I think that could somewhat be replicated. Maybe 10-12 goals.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

This is not something I expected to be addressed July 1st but I still have no faith in this team against the big dogs of the league who combine skill and physicality - Ducks, Blues, Kings, Stars, Bruins.

I mean good news is only Bruins in the East fit that mold. They can outskate slow physical teams like Toronto and Philly, and have enough North-South to beat other similarly constructed teams like Montreal. But the top 9 is far too "perimeter" for my liking.

 

[Cake or Death]

That's tough to say. Sometimes I think that Boyle's big body helped out a lot, especially in the playoffs. I also think Boyle is a bit better offensively, but that didn't show up on the score sheet so often. Maybe I'm thinking Boyle will eventually convert more chances, of which he created quite a few. Moore's speed ability to go all around the ice and keep the puck in the offensive zone w a plus. Perhaps it was the pairing of the two that I liked, and not any one particular player.

Tough to say on the offense. They had identical goals, assists and points in the regular season and playoffs, but Moore played 20 percent fewer minutes and took 30 percent fewer shots, for whatever that's worth.

 

[Doctyl]

Not sure if this thread or the one about the FAs, but wanna give it a day and seek what everyone comes up with----

Ryan Johansen from CBJ, about $$.

We would need $$ to sign, also, no Kreider, McD or Hank as a given.

What I see is something like:
1. Nash + NYR 2016 1st to Detroit
for
Thomas Jurco, Dylan Larkin + Wings 2015 1st

2. Girardi for Kadri, more or less straight up
3. Staal for ROR, more or less straight up

4 Stepan, ROR + Kadri (possible +s also)
for
RyJo and a high pick --- or maybe we get Anisimov back?


If we assume super speed line for now: Kreider - Miller - MSL
that leaves Brass - RyJo - Zuc
with Sweet Swede line Hags - Lindberg - Fast
and check of Yogan - D.Moore -Glass
[Yogan's last year entry deal, need to know if he's keeper or move for value]

McD Boyle
Moore Klein
Allen McIlrath - also have to see what he's got, regardless

something like that.
Or is Stepan, ROR + Kadri (possible +s also)
for
RyJo and a high pick --- or maybe we get Anisimov back?

simply not a good enough offer?

What the ****?

This is awful

 

[Fletch]

Tough to say on the offense. They had identical goals, assists and points in the regular season and playoffs, but Moore played 20 percent fewer minutes and took 30 percent fewer shots, for whatever that's worth.

it is tough to say. Maybe I'm jaded because he seemed more actively offensively, although not as productive year-in and year-out. Either way, I thought they were close and think I'd lean towards Boyle if salaries were the same. Again, just like the bigger body sometimes. Boyle has been pretty durable with the Rangers. Think Moore has missed time here and there throughout the years.

 

[Alluckks]

Kreider would be able to do exactly what Pouliot did for the Brassard Zucc line but better

What about someone like Cody Hodgson? JT Miller+Klein?

Hagelin Stepan St Louis
Kreider Brassard Zuccarello
Kristo Hodgson Nash
Lindberg Moore Glass
Carcillo

McDonagh Boyle
Staal Girardi
Moore Allen
Hunwick

 

[Fletch]

I don't know. Pouliot was only a $1.3M reclamation project, though. Not that I'm taking that for granted, like it's so easy to do, but it's not like people were throwing money at Pouliot before he got here. I think that could somewhat be replicated. Maybe 10-12 goals.

He was a good find, which is why his pay is going up, so getting someone with his current production, with his minutes, at $1.3MM does seem a bit tough. That's all I'm saying - the "market" is higher. Would hate to lose production anywhere because this team hasn't replaced Richards' production yet, unless Nash plays 82 games and is healthy, MSL is a 30-35 goal scorer (with center TBD), Kreider gets to 25, Stepan gets to 20+, Boyle scores 10-12, etc. Need those Pouliot goals to be replaced.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think the bolded is key. Of course, things could still get worse in our eyes depending on what is done. Change had to happen. We can debate what changes should be made, but you are limited in what can be done and have a lot to cover. Sather did not position the team well going into this offseason, while at the same time finding gems a couple years ago who now priced themselves out of RangerLand. He needs to find those gems again and get it going. And on paper, one may say that the Stepan line will produce the same as last season - what isn't taken into consideration with that statement is, how have other teams improved this offseason, or deteriorated, and how will that affect how the Rangers play? That's the big variable we don't talk about. The Rangers' Stanley Cup team had holes. Yes, they went to the finals, but if you played the playoffs again against the same teams, with the same lineups, you probably don't get the same outcome each time. Even with Stralman and Boyle I would not expect the same outcome (and they still would need to replace Richards' 51 points and still would need to find a Poo replacement).

Agreed.

But I have to admit, a has-been like Dan Boyle and a never was like Tanner Glass don't instill much confidence when it comes to personnel moves going forward (and I actually like the D. Boyle signing).

 

[Idlerlee]

Nash Step MSL
kreider Brass Zucc
Hags Miller - ?
Glass Moore ?

I like the top 6 but our bottom 6 is really bumming me out pre-Sather moves

 

[Cake or Death]

it is tough to say. Maybe I'm jaded because he seemed more actively offensively, although not as productive year-in and year-out. Either way, I thought they were close and think I'd lean towards Boyle if salaries were the same. Again, just like the bigger body sometimes. Boyle has been pretty durable with the Rangers. Think Moore has missed time here and there throughout the years.

I'm almost tempted to say, "it's tough to say" just to keep the trend going. Throwing stats out the window, I would probably agree and lean toward Boyle. Heck, if salaries were equal, and I had to pick one, I'd take Boyle just on his being younger. Unfortunately, they statistically kind of washed out - Boyle with a lot more hits and blocks, Moore with 2/3 less penalty mins and half as many giveaways. Ideally, you want both I reckon. The reality in a cap world, unfortunately, is that it's easier to find cheap bottom 6 guys than to locate reasonably priced top 6 guys who fit your roster well and the extra $500k savings on Moore definitely helps.

 

[Fletch]

Agreed.

But I have to admit, a has-been like Dan Boyle and a never was like Tanner Glass don't instill much confidence when it comes to personnel moves going forward (and I actually like the D. Boyle signing).

I don't totally disagree. Hoping there is some kind of plan in place to have it all make sense. Still have some guys to be signed and there still are holes which we do not exactly know how they'll be filled.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I don't know. Pouliot was only a $1.3M reclamation project, though. Not that I'm taking that for granted, like it's so easy to do, but it's not like people were throwing money at Pouliot before he got here. I think that could somewhat be replicated. Maybe 10-12 goals.

I wouldnt call Pouliot a reclamation project. He was what he always has been in a sense.

The UFA market for forwards was terrible and is a big reason he got paid. Its going to be tough to go bargain bin shopping, and I hate they already gave more to Glass than they did to Pouliot last summer. Absolutely hate it.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Kreider-Stepan-MSL
Hagelin-Miller-Nash
xxx-Brassard-Zuccarello
Glass-Moore-Fast/Lindberg

This is how I see the forward lineup atm. I would like Slats to check in on the Thornton situation, but, realistically, we need another top-9 winger.

 

[Doctyl]

Nash Step MSL
kreider Brass Zucc
Hags Miller - ?
Glass Moore ?

I like the top 6 but our bottom 6 is really bumming me out pre-Sather moves

I don't think we have a ton of cap space to sign Vrbata or someone like that, so the 3rd line RW will probably be Fast and they could resign Carcillo for 4th line or let Lindberg play wing for Moore.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Kreider-Stepan-MSL
Hagelin-Miller-Nash
xxx-Brassard-Zuccarello
Glass-Moore-Fast/Lindberg

This is how I see the forward lineup atm. I would like Slats to check in on the Thornton situation, but, realistically, we need another top-9 winger.

At the moment, sure, but theres no way in the world the team goes into training camp handing both Miller and Lindberg (or Fast, or whoever from the farm) spots.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

At the moment, sure, but theres no way in the world the team goes into training camp handing both Miller and Lindberg (or Fast, or whoever from the farm) spots.

They might have to with teh cap situation. They'll likely just play whoever is the best at camp.

 

[Alluckks]

Adding Cody Hodgson woulda give us 70+ goals from our centers

 

[Doctyl]

Adding Cody Hodgson woulda give us 70+ goals from our centers

Is he available?

 

[Cake or Death]

I wouldnt call Pouliot a reclamation project. He was what he always has been in a sense.

The UFA market for forwards was terrible and is a big reason he got paid. Its going to be tough to go bargain bin shopping, and I hate they already gave more to Glass than they did to Pouliot last summer. Absolutely hate it.

Glass? Yeah, that sinking feeling that we could have upgraded and saved money by signing my dad... and my dad's dead.