July 1st recap: Now and the Future

[Jersey Girl]

It's not surprising to me that they decided to keep someone like Klein or Girardi, as opposed to trading them and resigning Stralman, which I think becomes more obvious when you take a look at the makeup of the farm and proximity of players to making an impact (hopefully).

When Sather signed/traded for Girardi and Klein, he most likely thought Stralman would be a relatively easy signing at a relatively cap-friendly hit.

Then Stralman went out and had a great two months, and was one of the reasons we made the finals (good for us) - while at the same time sending his value skyrocketing just as he was about to become a UFA (bad for us).

 

[Off Sides]

Nature of a salary capped sport. There are very few teams that are experiencing little turnover this season.

I'll accept this point, as long as we also accept that every other team plays under the same rules.

Lundqvist is the highest cap hit goalie by 1.5M, and Nash has the 9th highest cap hit amount forwards at 7.8M

So partly the nature of the salary cap and partly how the Rangers decided to structure their cap.

 

[Cake or Death]

I think we are perfectly fine. I'll just copy what I wrote in the Dan Boyle thread, as it speaks my mind perfectly on the state of the team:

I'm good with this signing, oddly in part because of the recent draft. I know some have said 'we downgraded from Stralman' or 'same old Rangers grabbing old timers,' but I don't think that's our M.O. any more. You look at us draft goalies and see Clark saying, "They are 4-5-6 years away from being at the NHL level and that fits in pretty good for us."

This isn't the old Slats show. The team has gotten deep into the playoffs with decent consistency and now seems more managed by committee. Gorton yesterday, for instance, was asked about the potential loss of UFA players: "A lot of these guys we brought in. We have a good scouting staff that have found players and if holes are created because guys leave for more money or more term somewhere else, we have a lot of confidence in the room that we will be able to find those players again."

And when asked about Dan Boyle: "In any player that you sign you are looking at different factors: age, price and what they can do for you. We went through all of that. He turned down significantly more money and another year from other places and I don't think a lot of people around the league are worried about where he is as a player. We are not concerned, we think he can do it for us. He's a dimension we haven't had and a player like that who wants to come here is important too."

There's a bigger picture in play these days and a collective set of minds at work. Fact is, we've been to the Conference Final twice in the last three years and once to the Final. I don't think that's happenstance and I think the mgmt team is focused on trying to keep it rolling, while focused on the future, as well. Considering they are managing to succeed, even through roster turnover, maybe we should have a little faith.

 

[nyr2k2]

If we can make another move to help offset the loss of Richards' production, I'll feel very good about where we stand.

Losing Stralman is unfortunate, but on the flip side is the one place we have real organizational depth. Boyle is a good player, but we can replace what he brings. Pouliot is not a huge loss either. Dan Boyle helps with the PP and is fine on the third pair. Glass sucks, but whatever.

I think we're marginally worse than we were before, though that could change quickly if guys like Fast, Miller, Kristo, etc., and one of the defensemen prove they're ready to make an impact.

I feel good. I know we all like to be Chicken Little on our board, but the sky isn't falling. I feel good. ☺

 

[RangerBoy]

Biggest development of the day and everyone missed it. Jeff Gorton was on the Rangers conference call. Not Slats. AV spoke to the media. Gorton gave management's view on the day and what else is left on the agenda.

 

[RangerBoy]

Pouliot had the best season of his career. He cashed in on it. Mason Raymond couldn't find a contract last summer. Pouliot took a pay cut. Both of them got paid. The Rangers need to find the next Pouliot or Raymond. They found Stralman sitting at home after Jersey didn't sign when he attended their camp. Less than 3 years later, Stralman got 5 years and $22.5 million. $2 million signing bonus. There are players out there.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Biggest development of the day and everyone missed it. Jeff Gorton was on the Rangers conference call. Not Slats. AV spoke to the media. Gorton gave management's view on the day and what else is left on the agenda.

So Sather is front and center at Stanley Cup finals press conferences, but on a day when we lose more than we gain, Sather leaves Gorton to give management's view of the day. Thanks, boss.

 

[True Blue]

But you can argue that Sather felt that Boyle does more for the team at 4.5 than Stralman does.

Oh, I agree with that. I think that Boyle will make a difference, but on the PP. How much remains to be seen. To me, his days as anything but a 3rd pair defenseman are done. Whereas Stralman got exactly what I thought he would. Market level price for a 2nd pair defenseman. Which is what he was.

I think that a strength of the team (defense) took a hit. As did the chemistry of the team.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Hey, Boyle is another guy who 'wanted to come to New York to play for the Rangers'. That's always a good sign!

 

[Cake or Death]

Biggest development of the day and everyone missed it. Jeff Gorton was on the Rangers conference call. Not Slats. AV spoke to the media. Gorton gave management's view on the day and what else is left on the agenda.

Can't say I missed it, since I think I quoted a bit of the conference call ... two posts above yours

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

...as of right now...


Last season:
Kreider - Stepan - Nash

This season
Kreider - Stepan - Nash

Result: Same

Last Season:
Hagelin - Richards - MSL

Next Season:
Hagelin - Miller - MSL

Result:
Worse. Richards scored what, almost 50 points? I'd be shocked if Miller does the same.

Last Season:
Pouliot - Brassard - MZA

This Season:
Fasth - Brassard - MZA

Result:
Worse. That line thrived on chemistry, the likelyhood of Fasth coming in and having the same kinda chemistry is next to zero. Fasth is also a much smaller player that doesnt control the puck nearly as well as Pouliot did. Pouliot was an awesome forechecker for us (when he wasnt taking offensive zone penalties).


Last Season:
Boyle - Moore - Dorsett/Carcillo
This Season:
Bourque - Moore - Glass

Result: Significantly worse. I like the idea of Bourque on the 4th line, but he's a HUGE downgrade from an elite 4th liner in Boyle. Glass VS Dorsett is at BEST a push, and is more likely a net negative. this is a very mediocre 4th line.

Defense:


Last Season:
McDonagh - Girardi

This Season:
McDonagh - Girardi

Result:
Same



Last Season:
Staal - Stralman

This Season:
Staal - Boyle

Result:
Hard to say, I'll call it a push to be fair to both sides. Really tough to say though.



Last Season:
Moore - Klein

This Season:
Moore - Klein

Result:
Same


So our D should be roughly the same, our Goaltending is exactly the same, and our forwards are, as of now, unquestionably worse.

So yeah, we are definitely worse off (as of this very minute) versus last year.

is anyone surprised? Stupid salary cap.

Great breakdown.

I think as far as defense goes, they are gaining offense with Boyle, but losing defense, speed and puck possession. On paper it might be even or look better (depends on PP effectiveness of Boyle) but In the end I think losing Stralman and replacing him with Boyle is going to expose that side tremendously. I'd almost feel more comfortable moving Klein up with Staal if it wasnt for Moore being paired with Boyle which is a nightmare waiting to happen.

I think many Rangers fans are going to find out very quickly how much of a mistake it was letting Stralman go.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Hey, Boyle is another guy who 'wanted to come to New York to play for the Rangers'. That's always a good sign!

He took less to come. A little different from the guys who come for the most and talk about "playing in the Garden for an Original Six team."

 

[Trainmman]

Let's look who we lost and gained. I took a step back to let everything digest:

Anton Stralman: He got paid for a great playoffs. I wouldn't give him 5 years. End of story. Solid defender, but Tampa is going to expect him to be on a Hedman level.

Brian Boyle: Wanted a bigger role.. fine he is not a third line player. Good penalty killer. He produced third line numbers in 2010-2011. Fine, go to Tampa. He's a great 4th line player. 2 million / 3 years.. fine go goodbye.

Benoit Pouliot: This was one of the WORST signings of the day, maybe top 3 (Worse than Niskanen, not as bad as Orpik). Pouliot is a flaky player, we wanted him out of town after 20 games, and yeah he had a great playoffs. 4 million a year for a third line player?? Go to Canada and enjoy the cold winters.

Brad Richards: Good he went to Chicago. I liked Brad, but he's not a 6.6 million player. The Rangers have to replace him at center. Stay tuned.

For the additions.

Dan Boyle: Compared to the other signings, this is okay. It's adding offense but taking a hit on defense. Is he on the decline? Yes. But I think some of this is overblown coming from a very loaded Western conference. He played in a division with ANA, LA, and Arizona in their division alone. I'm okay with this signing. Besides McD, who can score on the blueline? Who can QB a powerplay? He will get plenty of insulation from Staal. I'm good with this signing as long as he can get 35-40 points. Maybe with AV he gets to 45-50..

Tanner Glass: I look at this and I shake my head. Thank god it's a 4th line player.. but don't you want a more complete 4th liner like a Ryan Carter? However, Dorsett was overpaid. The 3 years confuses me and he's about half a million overpaid. We got a third round pick back for Dorsett. So while it's a lateral move.. more depth I guess in the minors??

Dominic Moore: Feel good story. Perfect contract. Was worried someone would give him a Boyle like contract.

Guys, the offseason is not decided on July 1st. Let's put it this way, does it suck to lose the players we did? Yes. HOWEVER, are you paying the players those prices? I'll give you Stralman and maybe Boyle, but Pouliot? No way on him.

 

[Cake or Death]

Hey, Boyle is another guy who 'wanted to come to New York to play for the Rangers'. That's always a good sign!

When a guy leaves 3.5 mil on the table to play here instead, it certainly is. One thing I like about Boyle is that he wants to win and hates losing. I always loved playing alongside guys who hate losing and have a bad taste in their mouth when they don't win. They infect the locker room the right way.

 

[Trainmman]

Wrong thread. Deleted.

 

[RangerBoy]

So Sather is front and center at Stanley Cup finals press conferences, but on a day when we lose more than we gain, Sather leaves Gorton to give management's view of the day. Thanks, boss.

The only winners on July 1 are the players.

 

[Ian]

Biggest development of the day and everyone missed it. Jeff Gorton was on the Rangers conference call. Not Slats. AV spoke to the media. Gorton gave management's view on the day and what else is left on the agenda.

AV even remarked in his conference call that Gorton was the one that signed Mueller.

Since Gorton spoke not long after, might have just been because they were in the same room, but shows where he sits in the hierarchy of things.

 

[bernmeister]

Not sure if this thread or the one about the FAs, but wanna give it a day and seek what everyone comes up with----

Ryan Johansen from CBJ, about $$.

We would need $$ to sign, also, no Kreider, McD or Hank as a given.

What I see is something like:
1. Nash + NYR 2016 1st to Detroit
for
Thomas Jurco, Dylan Larkin + Wings 2015 1st

2. Girardi for Kadri, more or less straight up
3. Staal for ROR, more or less straight up

4 Stepan, ROR + Kadri (possible +s also)
for
RyJo and a high pick --- or maybe we get Anisimov back?


If we assume super speed line for now: Kreider - Miller - MSL
that leaves Brass - RyJo - Zuc
with Sweet Swede line Hags - Lindberg - Fast
and check of Yogan - D.Moore -Glass
[Yogan's last year entry deal, need to know if he's keeper or move for value]

McD Boyle
Moore Klein
Allen McIlrath - also have to see what he's got, regardless

something like that.
Or is Stepan, ROR + Kadri (possible +s also)
for
RyJo and a high pick --- or maybe we get Anisimov back?

simply not a good enough offer?

 

[Pizza]

Here is my take on this:

The gloom and doom is over the top as usual.

Boyler, Poo and Strals were as inevitable as Richie.

These guys get an opportunity to get paid and or change their roles and they jump on it. Can't blame them at all. Plus in Tampa you get to keep more of your money. I'm not sure how much of that applies to Stralman, but whatever.

Boyle disappoints me some. You had your discussion with AV. You know your not on the same page. Contracts up. Time to move on. Your leaving. That's it. Zip your lip dude. The Rangers gave you the chance you likely would have gotten no where else. I appreciate all you gave, but keep it classy and shut your mouth. You could tell from Sather's post draft comments that he was pissed at Boyle for being an ingrate.

The Rangers are trying to incorporate more of a blend of size, speed, skill and depth into their lineup in a hard cap world. That's what beat them in the final. So change is inevitable. They need as much cash on hand as possible in order to secure Kreider, Brass & MZA for as long as possible.

Does anyone here want us to move forward w/o these three? I'd give up all of the folks who left including Cally to keep Kreider, Brass and Zuke. They've all proved they can play and play in the clutch.

They need to give some of their older/better prospects a chance. That means Miller, Fast, Lindberg, maybe even Skeij, Duke and some others get a chance. That's a pretty good short list of prospects right there by the way. And I like what they picked up in the draft this year as well. Can't wait to follow Halverson and Iverson.

It is what it is....but it's far from the horror that some are making it out to be.

 

[GAGLine]

So our D should be roughly the same, our Goaltending is exactly the same, and our forwards are, as of now, unquestionably worse.

So yeah, we are definitely worse off (as of this very minute) versus last year.

is anyone surprised? Stupid salary cap.

One thing that you aren't considering is improvement or regression from last year's performance. Will Kreider play more than 66 games and get more than 37 points? Will McD improve upon his 43 points from last year? Will Stepan improve on his 57 points with a full training camp? Will Nash return to form and score 30+ goals?

Then again, maybe all of these players will regress. Maybe Kreider has a sophomore slump. Maybe the PP doesn't click and McD doesn't score as much. Maybe Stepan doesn't click with his wingers and Nash continues to struggle.

On paper we're worse, but I think we can expect improvements from some of our returning players.

 

[LGRDunDunDunDunDa]

I think(and Hope) most of these will be true...

One thing that you aren't considering is improvement or regression from last year's performance. Will Kreider play more than 66 games and get more than 37 points? Will McD improve upon his 43 points from last year? Will Stepan improve on his 57 points with a full training camp? Will Nash return to form and score 30+ goals?

 

[Inferno]

One thing that you aren't considering is improvement or regression from last year's performance. Will Kreider play more than 66 games and get more than 37 points? Will McD improve upon his 43 points from last year? Will Stepan improve on his 57 points with a full training camp? Will Nash return to form and score 30+ goals?

Then again, maybe all of these players will regress. Maybe Kreider has a sophomore slump. Maybe the PP doesn't click and McD doesn't score as much. Maybe Stepan doesn't click with his wingers and Nash continues to struggle.

On paper we're worse, but I think we can expect improvements from some of our returning players.

yep, its absolutely possible. we also had Cally for the bulk of last season, will a full season of MSL playing at typical MSL levels offset all of those issues combined? id say yes.

I think the point here is really "on paper". nobody knows how this team will perform. We also have to acknowledge that our conference is sigificantly weaker than the other, that means making the playoffs is much easier, as is making the finals.

Rangers are a playoff team. as long as they can avoid the wild card, they'll be primed for another run at making the SCF.

I really want them to sign 1 more potential impact forward. Let the kids duke it out for the 2 remaining spots. I dont like the idea of having 3 spots for kids in our lineup..just way too many things can go wrong there, and you have zero depth left to bring up in case of injuries.

like i said, go sign a buy low guy like Ribiero or Booth or Mueller. Bring em in, let em play, see how it goes.


in a perfect world youd have the Sharks trade us Thornton for next to nothing and eat part of his salary. That aint happening, but one could hope

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Tough to say how the team looks "on paper," especially considering its not done being constructed yet.

That said, some of those dark ages teams looked OK on paper and wound up sucking. Its why they play the games.

I will say this - outside of maybe Miller, Im not convinced theres one kid that can effectively lock down a roster spot. Theres still wholes in the bottom 6 and more NHL warm bodies will be needed (literally anyone would've been better than Tanner Glass)

 

[Inferno]

Tough to say how the team looks "on paper," especially considering its not done being constructed yet.

That said, some of those dark ages teams looked OK on paper and wound up sucking. Its why they play the games.

I will say this - outside of maybe Miller, Im not convinced theres one kid that can effectively lock down a roster spot. Theres still wholes in the bottom 6 and more NHL warm bodies will be needed (literally anyone would've been better than Tanner Glass)

yeah, right now its all arm-chair gm'ing. but thats all we can do right now.

i agree, i dont like how many spots for kids we have without any clear cut "hes ready" type prospects knocking at the door. Miller is the only guy i say who's 100% ready for a spot. Fasth is close.

after that, youd probably have to say Bourque. Hed be a strong 4th liner...but hes small, fragile, and is just begging for a season ending injury 5 games into the season.

 

[RangerBlues]

This just puts a period on this last run.
Loosing Boyle is horrific. Even if it meant giving him a longer term he should have never been allowed to go.
Poo hit lotto. Great for him. Edmonton does not have D or goaltending to cover up his mistakes. Good luck with that.
AS deserved to get that contract. We have D depth thats younger and cheaper.
This team needs a center. Two would be better.