Player Discussion JT Miller Thread

[CanucksSayEh]

Millers body of work here is definitely comparable to the Sedins best 5 years. He's right behind them amongst his peers, would be even closer if not for Crosby missing so many games. Currently 3rd league wide on the #1 scoring team, but was also #9 on a bottom 10 one, without a teammate in sight.

All with a rotation of Boeser, PDG, Garland, Hogs etc.

 

[mossey3535]

Slowing down a bit lately but I guess when you carry the team so long your back starts to hurt.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I remember a few weeks ago, there was a guy on the main board (think he was actually a Canucks fan) that claimed JTM is not "elite" because he wasn't "consistent" enough.

I am not sure at this point what else he has to do to be considered an "elite" player. People still use his production in NY and Tampa as support that he's not an elite player, despite that it's no longer relevant..

He is an elite player.

What I have trouble with is people insist he is an elite 5on5 player.

 

[arttk]

I remember a few weeks ago, there was a guy on the main board (think he was actually a Canucks fan) that claimed JTM is not "elite" because he wasn't "consistent" enough.

I am not sure at this point what else he has to do to be considered an "elite" player. People still use his production in NY and Tampa as support that he's not an elite player, despite that it's no longer relevant..

45 pts in 33 games so far. A “more consistent” Miller would be like outscoring Kucherov which is crazy unrealistic.
Yeah I think some fans have too high expectation for Miller.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

45 pts in 33 games so far. A “more consistent” Miller would be like outscoring Kucherov which is crazy unrealistic.
Yeah I think some fans have too high expectation for Miller.

A more consistent Miller at this moment in time is as dominant as McDavid. They were doing MVP tallies, and honestly I think he's been the best forward on the team the season. And I don't think it's really as close as it could be.

 

[F A N]

I remember a few weeks ago, there was a guy on the main board (think he was actually a Canucks fan) that claimed JTM is not "elite" because he wasn't "consistent" enough.

I am not sure at this point what else he has to do to be considered an "elite" player. People still use his production in NY and Tampa as support that he's not an elite player, despite that it's no longer relevant..

Just like there are still some posters here who still think the Miller trade was a bad trade because timing!

Miller has his faults but has there ever been a Canuck who has produced offensively the way he has as a Canuck and for as long as he has as a Canuck who is less loved by the Canucks fan base?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Just like there are still some posters here who still think the Miller trade was a bad trade because timing!

Are there a lot of people that disagree?

Miller has his faults but has there ever been a Canuck who has produced offensively the way he has as a Canuck and for as long as he has as a Canuck who is less loved by the Canucks fan base?

 

[F A N]

Are there a lot of people that disagree?

I think there is still a lot of people who can’t give up the argument.

 

[ziploc]

Just like there are still some posters here who still think the Miller trade was a bad trade because timing!

Miller has his faults but has there ever been a Canuck who has produced offensively the way he has as a Canuck and for as long as he has as a Canuck who is less loved by the Canucks fan base?

Mogilny is the only one who comes readily to mind (Messier excluded, because he should be excluded from everything). And I don't think Mogilny was unloved so much as seen as something of a disappointment lined up with Bure.

Kesler at the beginning of his Canucks' tenure, and at the end of it, was also not well-liked.

But your point is sound.

 

[F A N]

Mogilny is the only one who comes readily to mind (Messier excluded, because he should be excluded from everything). And I don't think Mogilny was unloved so much as seen as something of a disappointment lined up with Bure.

Kesler at the beginning of his Canucks' tenure, and at the end of it, was also not well-liked.

But your point is sound.

Mogilny would be a good comparable if he scored 40+ goals in his time here. If he managed to stay healthy and we had a competent C for him I think Mogilny would have done really well here.

Kesler never produced like Miller but how he left left a sour taste. If he didn't go to Anaheim I would say Kesler got/would have gotten more love than Miller has thus far.

Like even if we are talking about an offensive production per dollar context, Miller has outperformed his AAV (or at least provided reasonable value) every single year he has been here.

 

[Raistlin]

Just like there are still some posters here who still think the Miller trade was a bad trade because timing!

Miller has his faults but has there ever been a Canuck who has produced offensively the way he has as a Canuck and for as long as he has as a Canuck who is less loved by the Canucks fan base?

his commitment on both sides of the puck this year and as the lynchpin on the matchup line has changed my mind on him, if not for all the engines firing, he should garner some Hart votes.

 

[604]

Mogilny would be a good comparable if he scored 40+ goals in his time here. If he managed to stay healthy and we had a competent C for him I think Mogilny would have done really well here.

Mogilny scored 55 goals and 100+ points in his first year in Vancouver.

Unfortunately, he didn’t play well with Burke and the team went from Cup finalists to Messier (shit).

As a result, there wasn’t a lot of love for Mogilny.

 

[sting101]

Miller is quite easily a top30 forward in the NHL and Pettersson is also in that class and even higher when he's engaged as his talent is almost as good as anybody he just doesn't have the body to dominate physically like a MacKinnon or McDavid.

The decisions to trade for and re sign Miller is very much an integral part of this team being in the position it is currently. The 5v5 argument for me is a red herring designed to take away from the fact that his ES, PP play and even shootouts are elite and detract from his importance in deciding games positively.

While Horvat if they signed instead would have provided a good 1-2 with EP40 it would have been a substantial drop off given the playmaking that helps others like Boeser Kuzmenko Pettersson and even Quinn Hughes do their thing. Would be tough to imagine Horvat or another taking his role in the umbrella or PKing shootouts and 3v3 and having nearly as much success and effectiveness.

It's hard to believe given some of his past transgressions but this season to date producing the way he is and closing out games with the primary task against other teams top lines starting primarily in his own zone 5v5 he's having a MVP type season.

Fully expect some regression as the season wears on but JT Miller has been outstanding. What a player

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I think there is still a lot of people who can’t give up the argument.

No what I mean was that are there still a lot of people who dont think it was done at the wrong time?

 

[F A N]

No what I mean was that are there still a lot of people who dont think it was done at the wrong time?

Yes. I think so. Nothing has changed?

 

[Numba9]

No what I mean was that are there still a lot of people who dont think it was done at the wrong time?

I think what FAN is getting at is that there are people that still think the trade is bad. I'm sure there are alot of people that think the trade is good but it was too risky at the time.

 

[God]

The trade was bad because Benning left the team wide open to losing a potential lottery pick for a team that had picked in the top 10 in 6 of the last 7 years. Thankfully, they went on a heater to start the season and lucked out with the COVID playoff format. But just because the likely scenario didn't happen doesn't absolve the Miller trade of being bad... we just got lucky.

 

[Numba9]

The trade was bad because Benning left the team wide open to losing a potential lottery pick for a team that had picked in the top 10 in 6 of the last 7 years. Thankfully, they went on a heater to start the season and lucked out with the COVID playoff format. But just because the likely scenario didn't happen doesn't absolve the Miller trade of being bad... we just got lucky.

So what do you think of the Cam Neely trade? Bad/Good/OK for the Canucks? At the time Barry Pederson was only 25 and had two 100 point seasons under his belt.

 

[sting101]

The trade was bad because Benning left the team wide open to losing a potential lottery pick for a team that had picked in the top 10 in 6 of the last 7 years. Thankfully, they went on a heater to start the season and lucked out with the COVID playoff format. But just because the likely scenario didn't happen doesn't absolve the Miller trade of being bad... we just got lucky.

The plan worked out.

There is always risk you just didn't like the gamble.

It was a great trade

No what I mean was that are there still a lot of people who dont think it was done at the wrong time?

you dont think 112 pts and +32 with the team 2nd OA being the top scorer matching up against top lines is worthy of putting him in MVP conversation?

 

[God]

So what do you think of the Cam Neely trade? Bad/Good/OK for the Canucks? At the time Barry Pederson was only 25 and had two 100 point seasons under his belt.

The plan worked out.

There is always risk you just didn't like the gamble.

It was a great trade

you dont think 112 pts and +32 with the team 2nd OA being the top scorer matching up against top lines is worthy of putting him in MVP conversation?

I have zero issue with targeting Miller and have been a defender of his for some time.

Benning was dealing with a cap-strapped Tampa team and lost the negotiation process yet again. He picked outside of the top 10 once prior to making that trade and decided to not have lottery protections on the pick. If things go poorly we look about as bad as San Jose did in that same draft by losing the Tim Stuzle pick.

For what it's worth, this is completely different from the "sometimes trades don't work out". That's an inherent risk in any trade involving a player because it's dependent on their performance. Putting a lottery protection on a pick is within the team's control; player performance less so.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I have zero issue with targeting Miller and have been a defender of his for some time.

Benning was dealing with a cap-strapped Tampa team and lost the negotiation process yet again. He picked outside of the top 10 once prior to making that trade and decided to not have lottery protections on the pick. If things go poorly we look about as bad as San Jose did in that same draft by losing the Tim Stuzle pick.

For what it's worth, this is completely different from the "sometimes trades don't work out". That's an inherent risk in any trade involving a player because it's dependent on their performance. Putting a lottery protection on a pick is within the team's control; player performance less so.

Was a pretty weak draft that year..Plus you got Miller for 4 years on that fab contract.
Great trade.

 

[F A N]

The trade was bad because Benning left the team wide open to losing a potential lottery pick for a team that had picked in the top 10 in 6 of the last 7 years. Thankfully, they went on a heater to start the season and lucked out with the COVID playoff format. But just because the likely scenario didn't happen doesn't absolve the Miller trade of being bad... we just got lucky.

Most fans here expected the Canucks to make the playoffs by 2020-2021 before the trade. They had Petey, Horvat, Demko/Markstrom, Boeser, and Hughes in place and just drafted Podkolzin. There was an opportunity to add a cost-controlled player like Miller and the Canucks decided to make a push.

Prior to the trade the Canucks had picked 5th, 7th, and 10th. It's not a bad bet that the Canucks would continue to improve with Petey coming off his Calder win and with the addition of Hughes who looked good in his 5 games. Markstrom also looked like a top 10 goalie to finish the season.

A "lottery pick" could mean the 15th overal pick which is where we drafted Lekkerimaki. Even if the Canucks had the 9th overall pick in 2020 the pick could have been Rossi or Perfetti? I mean I liked Perfetti at that spot and he would be a very nice player to have right now but getting Miller in return would be more than a fair trade.

 

[God]

Was a pretty weak draft that year..Plus you got Miller for 4 years on that fab contract.
Great trade.

Most fans here expected the Canucks to make the playoffs by 2020-2021 before the trade. They had Petey, Horvat, Demko/Markstrom, Boeser, and Hughes in place and just drafted Podkolzin. There was an opportunity to add a cost-controlled player like Miller and the Canucks decided to make a push.

Prior to the trade the Canucks had picked 5th, 7th, and 10th. It's not a bad bet that the Canucks would continue to improve with Petey coming off his Calder win and with the addition of Hughes who looked good in his 5 games. Markstrom also looked like a top 10 goalie to finish the season.

A "lottery pick" could mean the 15th overal pick which is where we drafted Lekkerimaki. Even if the Canucks had the 9th overall pick in 2020 the pick could have been Rossi or Perfetti? I mean I liked Perfetti at that spot and he would be a very nice player to have right now but getting Miller in return would be more than a fair trade.

The issue is not protecting the 2021 pick - we had protection on the 2020 pick. And hilariously, that would've meant we could've avoided the whole OEL trade outright.

But he didn't put the lottery protection on both picks, and he was dealing with a cap-strapped team that had to move Miller. It was an unnecessarily risky trade for a player they rightly targeted.

 

[F A N]

The issue is not protecting the 2021 pick - we had protection on the 2020 pick.

This keeps being brought up but you can't protect a pick forever, not when the expectation is that the pick will be a mid-1st round pick. If the pick was valued as a late 1st round pick you could potentially put in a condition whereby more 2nd round picks are given up and bring finality to the trade.

It's simply not customary to make a trade where the team gets the next non-lottery pick. Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs since the 2010-2011 season and they will likely miss the playoffs again.

 

[HairyKneel]

He is an elite player.

What I have trouble with is people insist he is an elite 5on5 player.

Keep us posted. Your battting average is pretty poor. You seem to do nothing but whine. But it is adorable.