Prospect Info: Joshua Roy Part 2

[Habs Halifax]

It’s not rushing if he’s ready. Guhle, Xhekaj weren’t rushed. He’s 20 not 18. He has the junior pedigree, the talent and the physicality to skip the A. If he was from the O and not the Q and 1st round pick instead of 5th, with his junior production, camp and Team Canada performance (2nd best player after Bedard for me), he wouldn’t have set foot in the A.

Roy will get some NHL games no doubt. Is he ready for a full time role? Maybe but will it be a top 6 role in the NHL? Maybe not.

Patch quote: If I can't make the NHL in the top 6, I want to play AHL. I would like Roy to follow the same path. Top 6 in the AHL or top 6 in the NHL.

I was thinking re-evaluate after 40 games. But if continues
this level of play regardless of point totals, and shows he is
working at good pro habits, then maybe 20 or 25 is enough.
I think it is too early to see if this continues. And I think Houle
is good with players that are almost NHL ready, turning them
into good pros. Roy is just out of CHL, I imagine he could
benefit from some of that

Yeah, I think Roy should be allowed to rack up production in the AHL in a top line role and PP time. If we promote him to the NHL but he plays bottom 6 with limited PP, I don't think this is good for him.

 

[Mrb1p]

Theres no patience at all from you guys .

Give him time, hes not dominating out there, let him size up and let him become even better.

 

[JT3]

He may very well be ready now but I think a good 20-25 games in Laval won't hurt him.

I agree, at least till Christmas. See where the big club is at, see where Roy is at, evaluate from there. I'm sure he wouldn't look out of place on the big club right now but leading the charge in Laval for the season would be good for him.

One thing I noticed through these first few games is that his skating looks pretty significantly improved from where it was in the past, to the point where I think it really is no longer much of a concern. There was one specific play that stuck out to me on Saturday afternoon where two Abbotsford d-men were chasing the puck back to their zone on a typical puck retrieval, not thinking there would be much/any pressure. Except Roy was rocketing down the ice and nearly beat them to the puck. His speed impressed me on that specific play.

 

[danisonfire]

Theres no patience at all from you guys .

Give him time, hes not dominating out there, let him size up and let him become even better.

Just call him up for injuries and then send him back down to learn. If you speak to him beforehand he wont be bothered by getting sent back down. That way he gets a few games in the NHL to see what is coming in the future while still getting heavy AHL usage to develop.

 

[Mrb1p]

Just call him up for injuries and then send him back down to learn. If you speak to him beforehand he wont be bothered by getting sent back down. That way he gets a few games in the NHL to see what is coming in the future while still getting heavy AHL usage to develop.

Dachs season is likely finished, hes gonna stay there a while.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Just call him up for injuries and then send him back down to learn. If you speak to him beforehand he wont be bothered by getting sent back down. That way he gets a few games in the NHL to see what is coming in the future while still getting heavy AHL usage to develop.

I hope Roy plays less than 25 NHL games and is eligible for rookie of the year next season. This to me is not holding him back. It's allowing him to adjust to the pro game

Top line in the AHL or top 6 in the NHL. Calling him up to play bottom 6 in the NHL for 10+ games would be dumb.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree, at least till Christmas. See where the big club is at, see where Roy is at, evaluate from there. I'm sure he wouldn't look out of place on the big club right now but leading the charge in Laval for the season would be good for him.

One thing I noticed through these first few games is that his skating looks pretty significantly improved from where it was in the past, to the point where I think it really is no longer much of a concern. There was one specific play that stuck out to me on Saturday afternoon where two Abbotsford d-men were chasing the puck back to their zone on a typical puck retrieval, not thinking there would be much/any pressure. Except Roy was rocketing down the ice and nearly beat them to the puck. His speed impressed me on that specific play.

I prefer him to be under 10 NHL games so his ELC doesn't kick in. If he plays more than 10 NHL games, hopefully it's under 25 so he is still a rookie next season. If he plays more than 25, lets hope it's less than 40 games so his RFA year doesn't kick in.

This is not about holding him back. It's about usage and I don't think he is ready for a top 6 role in the NHL. That's the important part IMO.

 

[dinodebino]

Having MT as a coach was a far bigger problem than "rushing" young players.

Was listening to him this weekend on TVASpanre. Man, he just doesn’t get what the Habs are doing.

He was the worst hire by Bergevin.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Having MT as a coach was a far bigger problem than "rushing" young players.

Julien helped screw up both Galchenyuk and KK.

Therrien had Gachenyuk as his 1C by the time he got fired. As we are now realizing, taking until age 22 to really mature as a ppg player is not unusual.

But then we got ChuRien, the only coach worse than Té Rien.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I prefer him to be under 10 NHL games so his ELC doesn't kick in.

This isn't a thing. Roy is 20 as of September 15th and his contract cannot slide even if he plays the whole year in Laval.

If he plays more than 10 NHL games, hopefully it's under 25 so he is still a rookie next season.

Who gives a phuque?

If he plays more than 25, lets hope it's less than 40 games so his RFA year doesn't kick in.

Correct. Because of Roy's birthday being after June 30th, UFA status could be at almost 28, seven years AFTER this year. but only if this year does not count as an accrued season.

This is not about holding him back. It's about usage and I don't think he is ready for a top 6 role in the NHL. That's the important part IMO.

A third line role with a decent center is still a worthwhile role, however. But it can wait until after the 43 game mark.

 

[Kennerback]

Was listening to him this weekend on TVASpanre. Man, he just doesn’t get what the Habs are doing.

He was the worst hire by Bergevin.

Bergevin had a good run until he hired Michel Therrien. It was downhill from there.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I personally think Roy is ready, and he will continue to be offensively productive, especially if he's on the PP.

I believe in Roy's ability to be a top 6F in the NHL but I prefer him to take the path Patch took. It's too premature to say he is ready for a top 6F role in the NHL and to be on our PP that lacks puck possession players.

RHP and Ylonen should be given a chance to play top 6 for the Habs and on our PP. Roy's time will come

This isn't a thing. Roy is 20 and his contract cannot slide even if he plays the whole year in Laval.

Who gives a phuque?

Correct. Because of Roy's birthday being after June 30th, UFA status could be at almost 28, seven years AFTER this year. but only if this year does not count as an accrued season.

A third line role with a decent center is still a worthwhile role, however. But it can wait until after the 43 game mark.

Sure, I forgot the age 20 factor in terms of his contract starting. It doesn't change my stance in the end.

I expect him to play more than 10 NHL games so the contract starting point doesn't really matter to me. The under 25 games (Rookie) or under 40 NHL games (RFA season) are bigger benchmarks

 

[Essenege]

Roy will get some NHL games no doubt. Is he ready for a full time role? Maybe but will it be a top 6 role in the NHL? Maybe not.

Patch quote: If I can't make the NHL in the top 6, I want to play AHL. I would like Roy to follow the same path. Top 6 in the AHL or top 6 in the NHL.



Yeah, I think Roy should be allowed to rack up production in the AHL in a top line role and PP time. If we promote him to the NHL but he plays bottom 6 with limited PP, I don't think this is good for him.

With the current state of our team (Dach out, Gally/Pearson 4th liners) he should be on the 3rd line with PP time which would be a perfect spot for him! I agree we should not bring him up to play 8 mins but 13-15 with some PP time, practicing with NHL players…I think overall it’s better for him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

With the current state of our team (Dach out, Gally/Pearson 4th liners) he should be on the 3rd line with PP time which would be a perfect spot for him! I agree we should not bring him up to play 8 mins but 13-15 with some PP time, practicing with NHL players…I think overall it’s better for him.

I prefer him to get a few games in but in the back half of the season. 10-20 games ish. For now, let him dominate the AHL playing 18-20 min's and he gains more and more confidence. It's too early to promote him and a proper evaluation with prospects goes much deeper than just points.

I rather him start his first RFA year at age 21 next season. 10-20 games also keeps him eligible for rookie of the year next season. He's going to play NHL this year and I trust Gorton/Hughes/MSL will mange him similarly to what I have been saying. It's the safe logical management IMO.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

I hope Roy plays less than 25 NHL games and is eligible for rookie of the year next season. This to me is not holding him back. It's allowing him to adjust to the pro game

Top line in the AHL or top 6 in the NHL. Calling him up to play bottom 6 in the NHL for 10+ games would be dumb.

I would scalp up Davidson as fourth center and leave Roy where he is. RHP will fill that top 6 role. He has game

 

[LaP]

I would scalp up Davidson as fourth center and leave Roy where he is. RHP will fill that top 6 role. He has game

It all depends on how well he is doing. I still think and i will always think that the whole "got to keep the kids in the AHL for 7 years" mentality is ridiculous. We lost good players in the past without getting anything in return like Conroy or Bauchemin because of that mentality. Now i know i'm exaggerating with the 7 years but it really is a case by case basis.

If after 40 games Roy has 60 points and his dominating the league and it's too easy for him there really is no reason to keep him there for a full year. Bruins called up Pasternak after 25 games when they saw he was too strong for the AHL. Now obviously it's too soon to tell calling him up now after only two games would make no sense.

 

[Mudz]

Roy is dominating in the AHL but it's in part because Armia is there. Talent needs talent. Outside of Armia, there's no other NHL level of skill to play with him.

The big question for me is who's the next callup. If it's in a bottom 6 role I'm guessing it's Armia but if it's in the top6, I hope they would call Roy.

 

[Miller Time]

Roy is dominating in the AHL but it's in part because Armia is there. Talent needs talent. Outside of Armia, there's no other NHL level of skill to play with him.

The big question for me is who's the next callup. If it's in a bottom 6 role I'm guessing it's Armia but if it's in the top6, I hope they would call Roy.

I kinda hope they let Roy cook in Laval for a bit... Even if we lose another top 6/9 fwd, I'd like to see Ylonen get time there and Armia called up to play 3-4th line role.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Give Roy 20-30 ahl games before thinking of calling him up unless there's a bunch more injuries

 

[Habaddict]

Roy is dominating in the AHL but it's in part because Armia is there. Talent needs talent. Outside of Armia, there's no other NHL level of skill to play with him.

The big question for me is who's the next callup. If it's in a bottom 6 role I'm guessing it's Armia but if it's in the top6, I hope they would call Roy.

With Heinemann injured, Roy is the only top 6 option.

Lots of "apples and oranges" in this thread. People using
various criteria, and reasoning. So here is a new twist. The later
in the season, the more likely Laval is in a play-off race. If you
then give Roy 10 - 24 NHL games. and send him back for the
Play-off run. I'm pretty sure he'd be in for that. This depends
on their ability to get in without him for a stretch.

 

[MadMslm]

Roy is dominating in the AHL but it's in part because Armia is there. Talent needs talent. Outside of Armia, there's no other NHL level of skill to play with him.

The big question for me is who's the next callup. If it's in a bottom 6 role I'm guessing it's Armia but if it's in the top6, I hope they would call Roy.

Not that he hasn’t had a great start, but it’s only been two games.

Dominating might be a big word.

Leave him there the whole season, there’s no harm in it and see if he can dominate over it.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Not that he hasn’t had a great start, but it’s only been two games.

Dominating might be a big word.

Leave him there the whole season, there’s no harm in it and see if he can dominate over it.

Agreed that the use of the word "dominating" feels both hyperbolic and premature which doesn't take away from the fact that he has been very good through 2 games.

I would however counter the assertion that he should be kept in the AHL all season even if he continues to impress. I think this approach is equally as invalid as keeping a prospect in the NHL who clearly needs to be sent to the AHL. Prospects should always play at the level that challenges them the most but are able to learn and improve at that level. Roy may very well show in relatively short order that he is ready to go to the next level. There will come a point if he continues to progress that playing at a level where he can exploit opportunities that are not commonly available at the next level will become detrimental to the expediting of his development process from minor pro hockey to the NHL.

Ultimately it won't harm his game to stay in the AHL all season but it will slow the ascension to him becoming the final product that he will inevitably become. Perhaps that doesn't matter a whole lot considering that we are not remotely a relevant franchise at the moment in terms of being a championship contender but I strongly believe in running an organization as a meritocracy. Players should be rewarded for sustained demonstrations of progress and should be slotted into the organizational role/position that their contributions and competencies merit whenever circumstances allow for such a move to occur.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Sure, I forgot the age 20 factor in terms of his contract starting. It doesn't change my stance in the end.

I expect him to play more than 10 NHL games so the contract starting point doesn't really matter to me. The under 25 games (Rookie) or under 40 NHL games (RFA season) are bigger benchmarks

The 40 game benchmark only matters with players who turned 20 after June 30th such as Roy and Pacioretty. Otherwise they reach UFA status after 7 years regardless if they played in the AHL or NHL. The number of accrued seasons does not matter.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Agreed that the use of the word "dominating" feels both hyperbolic and premature which doesn't take away from the fact that he has been very good through 2 games.

I would however counter the assertion that he should be kept in the AHL all season even if he continues to impress. I think this approach is equally as invalid as keeping a prospect in the NHL who clearly needs to be sent to the AHL. Prospects should always play at the level that challenges them the most but are able to learn and improve at that level. Roy may very well show in relatively short order that he is ready to go to the next level. There will come a point if he continues to progress that playing at a level where he can exploit opportunities that are not commonly available at the next level will become detrimental to the expediting of his development process from minor pro hockey to the NHL.

Ultimately it won't harm his game to stay in the AHL all season but it will slow the ascension to him becoming the final product that he will inevitably become. Perhaps that doesn't matter a whole lot considering that we are not remotely a relevant franchise at the moment in terms of being a championship contender but I strongly believe in running an organization as a meritocracy. Players should be rewarded for sustained demonstrations of progress and should be slotted into the organizational role/position that their contributions and competencies merit whenever circumstances allow for such a move to occur.

All good and from a contract point of view, there is no harm in bringing him up to play maximum 39 games.

I prefer him to get a few games in but in the back half of the season. 10-20 games ish. For now, let him dominate the AHL playing 18-20 min's and he gains more and more confidence. It's too early to promote him and a proper evaluation with prospects goes much deeper than just points.

I rather him start his first RFA year at age 21 next season. 10-20 games also keeps him eligible for rookie of the year next season. He's going to play NHL this year and I trust Gorton/Hughes/MSL will mange him similarly to what I have been saying. It's the safe logical management IMO.

Rookie status should have nothing to do with what level Roy plays at. Maybe if he is at 24 games with a couple to go and the season competitively over AND HE DOES NOT MIND SITTING WHEN HE MERITS PLAYING.

 

[Tyson]

I agree, at least till Christmas. See where the big club is at, see where Roy is at, evaluate from there. I'm sure he wouldn't look out of place on the big club right now but leading the charge in Laval for the season would be good for him.

One thing I noticed through these first few games is that his skating looks pretty significantly improved from where it was in the past, to the point where I think it really is no longer much of a concern. There was one specific play that stuck out to me on Saturday afternoon where two Abbotsford d-men were chasing the puck back to their zone on a typical puck retrieval, not thinking there would be much/any pressure. Except Roy was rocketing down the ice and nearly beat them to the puck. His speed impressed me on that specific play.

He and Mailloux are the reasons I am watching tonight.