John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
- Nov 29, 2018
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I've been alluding to this for a while. And I think it's already a buyers market. What helps create this is that there's finally some turnover with GMs.
Value of: Josh Manson to the Leafs at the deadline
- Thread starter LEAFANFORLIFE23
- Start date
I've been alluding to this for a while. And I think it's already a buyers market. What helps create this is that there's finally some turnover with GMs.
I would do it. It's our biggest need and we absolutely have to give this core the best possible chance to compete for a cup, we can't keep wasting prime Matthews years. I don't think we get past either Florida/Tampa with our current roster, adding Manson would be a massive upgrade to our D pairings.
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Manson
Sandin - Liljegren
Holl 7th D
And we can interchange the bottom pairings. Muzzin/Manson would likely be split up just to have some size and mobility on every pairing. I've wanted Manson for a little while now and him not being in the lineup last night was very noticeable. If that's the cost, I'd pull the trigger on it. People don't like trading 1sts, but we've built this core group now. Help them make a deep run now.
This team has gone the distance in every series except 1, (Washington 2017) in which there were 4 OT games and every game decided by 1 goal. They can absolutely compete, but they need to bolster the lineup like how other contenders do. We only have Matthews/Marner signed for a couple more years, we need to give this group the best possible shot. Caps won the cup the following year, Boston went on to make the finals, Montreal went on to make the finals. It's not like they were losing to complete scrubs. Last year the guy we made a trade for didn't even play, as he got injured.
I don't understand the logic in "let this team show that it has what it takes to go on a run" no real contender just goes on a run without upgrades. Ovechkin and the Caps made improvements every deadline to compete, same with the Pens, Hawks etc. You have to make those kinds of deals when you have a solid core. Also Dubas knows he's on the hot seat, one more first round loss and he is likely gone. I expect him to make multiple impact trades by the deadline.
If Dubas is not making trades to compete for a cup, you might as well just trade Matthews and Marner right now. Literally no point in holding on to them if you're not actively trying to get better and compete. Even if we don't win with this group, I can live with it if we at least try. But not even trying to win would be a shame.
Panic. Panic. Panic. Panic. Panic.
Keep calm and carry on.
The Leafs are competitive. Their defence is fine. There's no need to make a panic-driven move to sell the future for short-term gain and long-term pain.
I surely hope they don't throw away futures on another rental.
Keep calm and carry on.
The Leafs are competitive. Their defence is fine. There's no need to make a panic-driven move to sell the future for short-term gain and long-term pain.
I surely hope they don't throw away futures on another rental.
- Jul 25, 2012
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Just judging last nights game(which Anaheim was awful in)…. Leaf’s still looked soft in front of the net.
I think a lot of the defensive issues are covered by how there offense works tbh…. As a defender on opposing team you can’t be overly aggressive cause if that puck gets on a leafs stick they are flying out of the zone on a potential odd man break. Def gave Anaheim trouble yesterday… and we like our dmen being aggressive… but in a playoff series I imagine there will be a lot more action in front of the net. Manson would def help that part of the leafs defense
thusk
Registered User
On the second goal yeah but the 1st and the third, it was a clear lack of physicality.
1- if rielly just hit steel at the blueline, that goal never happen. Rielly just get beat pretty easyly by steel and brodie rush on the corner= result both of your d are now out of position
Lack of physicality forced brodie to make an other mistake who result in a goal
3- just a d losing his one on one battle and let duck player easyly redirect the puck.
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kevsh
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- Nov 28, 2018
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I can't argue with your overall thinking, esp. considering the window is when you've got Matthews/Marner/Nylander here, but where we differ is my opinion that Dubas should not mortgage more of this team's future "going for it" when this team has not proven they are a contender, and their play this year (inconsistent, blown leads, a very shaky blueline) and considering what the path looks like his year (Florida, TB, Boston, for starters).
Basically, I have seen nothing from this team to suggest they are going to have any more success than the past 5 versions, regardless of who they bring in at this point. So I don't want to see another first and another top prospect (of which the Leafs have about 3) gone and potentially be out of the playoff picture entirely in a few years if any stars go and there's no young talent to replace them.
Of course, I'm not Dubas nor am I a Leafs player and I'm sure they disagree but going all in - if not for one playoff, cumulatively over a few years - is when you believe in the team and you see a path. Otherwise it's desperation to appease the boss and/or the fans. To me, it's the latter.
Resist the temptation on the big names and instead bring a depth, veteran 3rd-pairing level (RD preferred) at modest price. In truth, the Leafs could use at least a couple but at some point you have to give the young guys (namely Sandin and Liljegren) some playoff exposure so they can grow from it.
The quoted line, I dispute that: They have been trying to win it every year - consider players like Freddie, Hyman, JVR as own rentals + the trades.
Pyrophorus
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thusk
Registered User
This season is the best season for buyer until a good time so maybe for the same amount leafs gave to foligno last season, this season you can maybe get 2 player of that level
So this season if a team like anaheim is out of playoff picture at the trade deadline, maybe toronto will be able to get both of manson and rakell at the same price. I think some people here will be surprise how low some good player will be trade
Thing is if this team goes out in round 1 again Dubas is probably getting fired and it would be completely justifiable.
Dubas might go all in, and I'm talking about TRULY all in to save his job.
And let me be clear because I have a feeling you will say "they went all in last year."
No no, I don't mean trading a few picks that's not all in you can't go all in if you don't trade a single prospect and they didn't.
When I say Dubas might go all in to potentially save his job, I mean ALL in.
Nylanderthal
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- Jun 9, 2010
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Unavailable for a rental. I'd consider moving one of them in a package for an upgrade on the back end that fits the timeline of the team and has term.
This is super rich, talk about pot calling the kettle...
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Nylanderthal
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- Jun 9, 2010
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Holl + SDA/Kral/Rubins (basically the Ducks choice of Leaf Prospects excluding Robertson/Knies/Niemela/Amirov) + 2nd. for Manson at 50%.
Holl can fill a hole next year on the blue line, and being out of the fishbowl that is toronto where every mistake a defender makes gets exposed and criticized he can restore some value and be off-loaded again next deadline if Anaheim wants to go that route. Again I think with the amount of quality players along with the lack of available firsts with many teams already having traded or conditionally traded off their picks I can't see Manson fetching a 1st. I feel that way about Chiarot as well, but I don't think that a top 5-8 org. prospect plus a top 60 pick is a bad Holl for an expiring bottom 4 D.
Holl can fill a hole next year on the blue line, and being out of the fishbowl that is toronto where every mistake a defender makes gets exposed and criticized he can restore some value and be off-loaded again next deadline if Anaheim wants to go that route. Again I think with the amount of quality players along with the lack of available firsts with many teams already having traded or conditionally traded off their picks I can't see Manson fetching a 1st. I feel that way about Chiarot as well, but I don't think that a top 5-8 org. prospect plus a top 60 pick is a bad Holl for an expiring bottom 4 D.
thusk
Registered User
Leafs need to raise his dman size and strenght, add manson and withraw holl don't raise size or strenght.
I really like liljegren potentiel but now, hes not whats leaf need. Last game we saw sandin and holl playing together full time and they looking really great, far better than sandin with liljegren.
First round pick (2023) / Matthew Knies / Nick Ritchie for cap reasons
- Jul 25, 2012
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WTFMAN99
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- Jun 17, 2009
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WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Took a heavy hit from Tkachuk, no call but seemed borderline at best. Put him into the boards at an awkward angle and Manson seemed to hurt his wrist in self preservation.
I haven't seen any word on his condition yet this AM, but the injury occured late 1st period, he hit the dressing room right away and did not return.
AddyTheWrath
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dracom
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- Jul 25, 2012
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Prob not super far off tbh
Manson at 50% >1st
Ritchie at 1.3 for 2 years = what.... maybe a 4th maybe 3rd for us to take
Use left over value of manson being > than late 1st + the contract and id value it in the 2nd rounder range.
Knies fits the value tbh, maybe a small add from anaheim
If you think you're getting a 1st + Knies, you're going to be disgusted with the return. I'll bookmark this for the trade thread though.
Wouldn't do Knies straight up for Manson. You can make the argument that Manson's market is a 1st, but even that's stretching it and Knies is not some B prospect throw in.
Ritchie is also not costing a 3rd to dump. Matt Martin @2.5m with more term was traded by the Leafs for positive value, despite worse production. Ritchie's 1 year after this is pennies for a cap floor team.
