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Kings News: Jonathan Bernier to TML for Matt Frattin, Ben Scrivens, & 2nd ('14 or '15) (pst#276)

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Tonellisghost said:
From the Leafs I like the following two players out of their prospect pool who I think they could part with.

Brad Ross (hard hitting LW 6'2" loves to hit pest with good hands and drives the net. Top 6er who is ready or right there) If Ross were the return I would want this years first and possibly a later pick (4th this year 5th next)

Tyler Biggs (6'3" 220 prototypical DL player who hits plays hard and can score. 1st rd pick in 11 taken at 22nd) If Biggs were the return I would want the Leafs 2013 2nd plus their 2014 2nd as well. I love Biggs but that is what I would ask for if the return was Bernier.

That said, in the end I don't believe as of today that the Leafs is where JB will end up.
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Where do you think he ends up
 
Tonellisghost said:
From the Leafs I like the following two players out of their prospect pool who I think they could part with.

Brad Ross (hard hitting LW 6'2" loves to hit pest with good hands and drives the net. Top 6er who is ready or right there) If Ross were the return I would want this years first and possibly a later pick (4th this year 5th next)

Tyler Biggs (6'3" 220 prototypical DL player who hits plays hard and can score. 1st rd pick in 11 taken at 22nd) If Biggs were the return I would want the Leafs 2013 2nd plus their 2014 2nd as well. I love Biggs but that is what I would ask for if the return was Bernier.

That said, in the end I don't believe as of today that the Leafs is where JB will end up.
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I really think that this is the furthest from the truth, if Ross was " Top 6er who is ready or right there" wouldn't you think the Buds would've given him a shot during this season? Truth is he hasn't been able to consistently put it together like he did in the Dub. He's still about 2-3 yrs away IMO. Biggs I don't think Nonis would be so crazy to give up on so easily as PF develop at a slower rate than others.
 
KingKopitar11 said:
Then dont compare Holloway to Frattin. Holloway hasn't played in the NHL but its very premature to say that he's better than Holloway.
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I didn't come up with the comparison.

There's tape on Frattin in the NHL, you can see how he does. He's fast, can hit, can score. Holloway? Big question mark and sounds like he's playing hardball with Dean Lombardi.
 
SmythesMinions said:
I really think that this is the furthest from the truth, if Ross was " Top 6er who is ready or right there" wouldn't you think the Buds would've given him a shot during this season? Truth is he hasn't been able to consistently put it together like he did in the Dub. He's still about 2-3 yrs away IMO. Biggs I don't think Nonis would be so crazy to give up on so easily as PF develop at a slower rate than others.
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Hi, welcome to the Kings boards visitor. Nice way to start things off.

Of course I believe that you are entirely mistaken.

There are mitigating factors involved with how Ross' development has gone and he definitely has turned a corner. If he isn't ready he isn't far from it but again, that is how I see him and I am willing to bet that if we were to get Ross, this years first and a 4rth that we would end up being very happy with the return.

Possibly not this season though I would like to see him in our camp before I would say with 100% certainty. I wouldn't have written what I did without having seen Ross play an awful lot but again in the end its an opinion.
 
SmythesMinions said:
Late last yr in the Calder cup semis against OKC (the final game) Frattin blew his knee and underwent surgery for it. This year even with the lockout Fratts came back but didn't really look comfortable in the beginning, TO sent him down (AHL). A short time later he was examined by the Ortho surgeons and it was discovered that he still had a piece of ligament or something that the surgeons had missed floating within the capsule. An operation was scheduled and it was removed, after which Frattin began to reclaim the game he had before (only not hitting his previous seasons totals because of the layoff and conditioning). King and Fratts are not a good comparison IMHO, if you would like a fair comparison I think Fratts is Dustin Brown Lite.
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With the exception that Dustin Brown nor Dwight King have either had MAJOR knee surgery at this points in their respective careers. Frattins injury history definitely contributes to his lesser value.
 
Tonellisghost said:
Hi, welcome to the Kings boards visitor. Nice way to start things off.

Of course I believe that you are entirely mistaken.

There are mitigating factors involved with how Ross' development has gone and he definitely has turned a corner. If he isn't ready he isn't far from it but again, that is how I see him and I am willing to bet that if we were to get Ross, this years first and a 4rth that we would end up being very happy with the return.

Possibly not this season though I would like to see him in our camp before I would say with 100% certainty. I wouldn't have written what I did without having seen Ross play an awful lot but again in the end its an opinion.
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Sorry to offend you, as this wasn't my intention however with electronic media
it's impossible to "read" people or their ideas. I typed a comment (less offensive) b4 this one and maybe you missed it. I am not "1 of those Leaf fans that go to bed b4 the late game" as I live on the West Coast and for 2 years I watched Ross play live when he was with the 'Hawks in the Dub. The prospect of having a player like him in the pipeline made me ecstatic, that being said I expected more from him than what has been delivered. Now, I'm not saying he's not good or can't put it together but that he's on a slower curve than expected, the start of the season wasn't kind to him but he started to put it together better by the end.
 
Tonellisghost said:
With the exception that Dustin Brown nor Dwight King have either had MAJOR knee surgery at this points in their respective careers. Frattins injury history definitely contributes to his lesser value.
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Brown had a PCL injury against the Sharks, knee surgery and rehab to come. With all due respect.
 
Lots of talk and rumors about Bernier for a top 6 LW, but I think DL wants a top 4 defenseman. If Willie is done and Scuds walks, we are not looking good back there.
 
Fatty said:
Hi there SM, welcome to the board. It was my understanding that he was not going to have surgery per the last announcement.....
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Thanks Fatty, good to be here. My woman's a ortho nurse so when I watch puck I pick her brain too. And thanks to her I've found this site.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00420

I believe he suffered a tear which I think would require a surgical procedure, but feel free to read over the info here.
Once again, I didn't mean to offend anyone on this board. cheers
 
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SmythesMinions said:
Sorry to offend you, as this wasn't my intention however with electronic media
it's impossible to "read" people or their ideas. I typed a comment (less offensive) b4 this one and maybe you missed it. I am not "1 of those Leaf fans that go to bed b4 the late game" as I live on the West Coast and for 2 years I watched Ross play live when he was with the 'Hawks in the Dub. The prospect of having a player like him in the pipeline made me ecstatic, that being said I expected more from him than what has been delivered. Now, I'm not saying he's not good or can't put it together but that he's on a slower curve than expected, the start of the season wasn't kind to him but he started to put it together better by the end.
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I meant my response tongue in cheek. I guess we both missed a little. No offense taken. We just disagree as to Ross' value and place in his development at this point.
 
Within a couple pages of the same thread we've had people complaining about how other people underestimate Bernier AND people calling Frattin Dwight King 2.0. Gotta love HFBoards.
 
SmythesMinions said:
Thanks Fatty, good to be here. My woman's a ortho nurse so when I watch puck I pick her brain too. And thanks to her I've found this site.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00420

I believe he suffered a tear which I think would require a surgical procedure, but feel free to read over the info here.
Once again, I didn't mean to offend anyone on this board. cheers
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I remembered reading that Brown wasn't having surgery either or that surgery wasn't going to be required.

If someone can update this it would be good.

Still, if Ben Bishop, a player that has nowhere near the same amount of experience or NHL success that Bernier does got Cory Conacher, a Calder candidate who finished 3rd in points among rookies and was 1st in plus/minus of the top 3 Calder finalists and a 4rth round pick (which is a high 4rth) then Bernier should be able to return more.


So while I like Frattin and would happy if he were part of a return the fact that he has had his share of injuries has to have some sort of impact on his overall value at least in this deal and why I see a return closer to this years 1st and Biggs or Frattin and a 2nd plus a 4th being more fair.

That said, I don't see the Leafs ending up with Bernier.
 
lumbergh said:
Within a couple pages of the same thread we've had people complaining about how other people underestimate Bernier AND people calling Frattin Dwight King 2.0. Gotta love HFBoards.
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Don't really see your point. I freely admit that Frattin is better than King and would be a great fit for our third line, but that is what he is, a replacement for Dwight King, not Dustin Penner. I remember thinking last season, while King was having a good year, that he looks like a young Frattin. Unfortunately, he never developed a hard hitting aspect to his game, but still is a big two-way, third line, forward that could be good at scoring on a .5 ppg pace. Sounds good to me, but he isn't exactly the center feature of a deal for Bernier. We would be trading Bernier primarily to get a draft pick if we took Frattin+ from the Leafs, not to get Frattin to replace Dwight King.

As for Bernier, just wander over to the trade board. Obviously Kings fans have a glowing depiction of Bernier, but the other side of the coin is bleak. Bernier might as well be the second coming of many failed prospects who turn into career backup goaltenders, barely worth someone like Frattin straight up. I guarantee that Lombardi will get more than that out of him when this is all said and done.
 
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SmythesMinions said:
Thanks Fatty, good to be here. My woman's a ortho nurse so when I watch puck I pick her brain too. And thanks to her I've found this site.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00420

I believe he suffered a tear which I think would require a surgical procedure, but feel free to read over the info here.
Once again, I didn't mean to offend anyone on this board. cheers
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Come back anytime :)
 
Tonellisghost said:
I remembered reading that Brown wasn't having surgery either or that surgery wasn't going to be required.

If someone can update this it would be good.

Still, if Ben Bishop, a player that has nowhere near the same amount of experience or NHL success that Bernier does got Cory Conacher, a Calder candidate who finished 3rd in points among rookies and was 1st in plus/minus of the top 3 Calder finalists and a 4rth round pick (which is a high 4rth) then Bernier should be able to return more.


So while I like Frattin and would happy if he were part of a return the fact that he has had his share of injuries has to have some sort of impact on his overall value at least in this deal and why I see a return closer to this years 1st and Biggs or Frattin and a 2nd plus a 4th being more fair.

That said, I don't see the Leafs ending up with Bernier.
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I don't see it either. I think he's gonna land in Calgary. They have 3 firsts to part with so they would be in a good spot for a trade. I don't like them going to a division rival, but they are a few years away from contending so I think DL does this.
 
Fatty said:
I don't see it either. I think he's gonna land in Calgary. They have 3 firsts to part with so they would be in a good spot for a trade. I don't like them going to a division rival, but they are a few years away from contending so I think DL does this.
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Now Fatty, it was said north o' the 49th that DL was nervous during this process that a team that may acquire JB will turn around and "flip" him to a division rival. So he (DL) may also be leary in giving him to a Division Rival. (i.e Calgary, Edmonton et al) As well, BB for CC deal cannot be compared as TB has/had cap issues, and may not have wanted to pay CC for any contractual accomplishments he may have achieved. TB is also playing with the idea of trading Vinnie + their 1st to have another team buy him out so as TB can resign him for cheaper.
 
The more I look at it, the more I want a deal to go down with the Wild. It will suck to have to play against Bernier, but I think they are the best fit and they have the assets I would desire most in either Coyle or Zucker and maybe a pick. That would really be ideal.
 
Telos said:
The more I look at it, the more I want a deal to go down with the Wild. It will suck to have to play against Bernier, but I think they are the best fit and they have the assets I would desire most in either Coyle or Zucker and maybe a pick. That would really be ideal.
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If we are looking for a roster player, I absolutely agree. Read is nice, but his UFA status and needing a sizable raise scare me off. Frattin and Martin would be nice pieces, but they are third liners on a good team. While I think Coyle is the better player, Zucker is the much better fit. Skilled, 21 years old, left shooting, and a left wing? Yes, please
 
Tonellisghost said:
Hi, welcome to the Kings boards visitor. Nice way to start things off.

Of course I believe that you are entirely mistaken.

There are mitigating factors involved with how Ross' development has gone and he definitely has turned a corner. If he isn't ready he isn't far from it but again, that is how I see him and I am willing to bet that if we were to get Ross, this years first and a 4rth that we would end up being very happy with the return.

Possibly not this season though I would like to see him in our camp before I would say with 100% certainty. I wouldn't have written what I did without having seen Ross play an awful lot but again in the end its an opinion.
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I appreciate your affection for Brad Ross but he's at the very least two years away from even contending for a roster spot.

Ross is learning at the AHL level. He's adjusting to the professional game and won't be ready for a bit.

Very nice prospect to have. Biggest pest in the WHL during his time there. He can also play the game.
 
Telos said:
The more I look at it, the more I want a deal to go down with the Wild. It will suck to have to play against Bernier, but I think they are the best fit and they have the assets I would desire most in either Coyle or Zucker and maybe a pick. That would really be ideal.
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(And their fans don't suck).

Wild, Philly, any other team not in our division, Toronto, KHL, SEL, division rival, SM-Liiga, DEL, AHL, Antarctic beer league, San Jose.

Those are the teams I'd like to trade Bernier to in order from most to least.
 
Not sure if this has been posted, but:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/212573481.html

The Wild traded its 2013 first-round pick to Buffalo in April’s Jason Pominville deal. But the Wild has prospects to trade, with the Kings looking for a left winger. The Kings also would want a backup goalie in return and have asked for Darcy Kuemper, a source confirmed. The Wild traded third-string goalie Matt Hackett to the Sabres in the Pominville deal.
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