Player Discussion Jonas Brodin

[forthewild]

I think you need to take a look around the league at some other team's defense situation if you think Brodin is "useless".

Sarcasm dude, I love Brodin and think his contribution goes beyond stats.


In an ideal world we would run with


Super and Spurgeon

Scannella and Brodin

Duma with Leipold who he seemed to work with last year

 

[nickschultzfan]

The Wild will be a first round exit if Dumba is getting 20+ minutes a night. And Suter will be back to playing 30+ minutes a night.

 

[this providence]

Dumba's fault in all the 3 goals. Hard to play D with that kind of partner.

A lot of fault in Brodin's play in those 3 goals allowed to be found as well.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

A lot of fault in Brodin's play in those 3 goals allowed to be found as well.

 

[Wild11MN]

Just from watching a replay of the goals..

First one was Dumba's fault. Poor play all around.
Second was a little of both, but I'd say more Brodin who got owned on a nice play by Schenn.
Neither were really to blame on the third. Looked like Granlund should have stuck with the guy on the wing. Dumba had just stepped on the ice and came into the play late. I don't know how you can blame him there.

So I don't know where people come up with "They were all Dumba's fault" or "they were all Brodin's fault". Seems like people see what they want sometimes.

 

[this providence]

It's not at hard to go back and watch highlights. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

1st goal - Any defenseman will tell you that's his puck/man when it was originally flipped into the zone. Especially when you see your partner fumble the exchange. He's got the angle and the speed coming from the weak side to better control the player in the corner. Think Suter plays it that passively? Of course not. Hell, watch it back and you can see it going through Brodin's mind and he decides to back off. That's fine. Happens. After Dumba lost his man, Brodin has a choice to make, play the carrier or play the pass. Passive play leads to neither and it's in the back of the net.

2nd goal - Bad gap due to the Flyers' speed pressing the middle. Decides to aggressively play the exterior man, who beats him with a move and a pass to the center driving man that Dumba couldn't handle. He's in an odd man rush, playing a puck carrier that aggressively leads to high percentage plays against.

3rd goal - Terrible gap control. A lot of that had to do with Granlund not exactly know what the hell was going on. Playing directly behind your partner (Granlund in this case) is never a recipe for success. Simple communication directs Granlund on who to take. Clearly both were in no man land. He's again beat by his man who moves the puck into a scoring area and it ends up in the back of the net after a Flyer beats Dumba and Vanek to the puck.


Clearly the blame shouldn't all be Brodin. But to say his decision making and his effectiveness didn't lead to all three goals would be just ignoring what actually happened.

Look, he's a nice player who's had some good moments in a Wild sweater. But he's nowhere near where he needs to be at this point.

 

[forthewild]

It's not at hard to go back and watch highlights. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

1st goal - Any defenseman will tell you that's his puck/man when it was originally flipped into the zone. Especially when you see your partner fumble the exchange. He's got the angle and the speed coming from the weak side to better control the player in the corner. Think Suter plays it that passively? Of course not. Hell, watch it back and you can see it going through Brodin's mind and he decides to back off. That's fine. Happens. After Dumba lost his man, Brodin has a choice to make, play the carrier or play the pass. Passive play leads to neither and it's in the back of the net.

2nd goal - Bad gap due to the Flyers' speed pressing the middle. Decides to aggressively play the exterior man, who beats him with a move and a pass to the center driving man that Dumba couldn't handle. He's in an odd man rush, playing a puck carrier that aggressively leads to high percentage plays against.

3rd goal - Terrible gap control. A lot of that had to do with Granlund not exactly know what the hell was going on. Playing directly behind your partner (Granlund in this case) is never a recipe for success. Simple communication directs Granlund on who to take. Clearly both were in no man land. He's again beat by his man who moves the puck into a scoring area and it ends up in the back of the net after a Flyer beats Dumba and Vanek to the puck.


Clearly the blame shouldn't all be Brodin. But to say his decision making and his effectiveness didn't lead to all three goals would be just ignoring what actually happened.

Look, he's a nice player who's had some good moments in a Wild sweater. But he's nowhere near where he needs to be at this point.

Another way to look at this is, Dumba's mistakes lead to Brodin having to make these decisions, its seems the general agreement is that Dumba fumbled the palys and bears the brunt of blame.

Curious you don't seem to have a keen eye when Spurgeon makes a dumb mistake and gets used for a goal tho.

 

[this providence]

Another way to look at this is, Dumba's mistakes lead to Brodin having to make these decisions, its seems the general agreement is that Dumba fumbled the palys and bears the brunt of blame.

Curious you don't seem to have a keen eye when Spurgeon makes a dumb mistake and gets used for a goal tho.

Dumba wasn't involved in two of the three goals before a Brodin mistake.

And the other was initially a poor read from Brodin (my experience from playing of course) that put Dumba into a bad spot to get beat; and then Brodin beat again...

I can sit and break down Spurgeon mistakes if we want to go down that route. But when your whole game is based around what you do in your half of the red line and are just generally playing poorly within that role, it deserves to be pointed out.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Dumba wasn't involved in two of the three goals before a Brodin mistake.

And the other was initially a poor read from Brodin (my experience from playing of course) that put Dumba into a bad spot to get beat; and then Brodin beat again...

I can sit and break down Spurgeon mistakes if we want to go down that route. But when your whole game is based around what you do in your half of the red line and are just generally playing poorly within that role, it deserves to be pointed out.

1st goal.

First mistake- Dumba LEAVING his feet on the lob pass. If you have experience playing, you should know this should never happen. Ever.

Second Mistake- Raffl makes one move to his left then back right and Dumba gets caught out of position and lets Raffli have the wall.

Third Mistake- Brodin makes the correct decision, but fails to deflect the pass through.
Fourth Mistake- After getting caught out of position, Dumba is late recovering to the middle.

2nd goal

Off the 3-2 initial pass, Brodin is in perfect position. Dumba stops his feet and DEL ZOTTO gets the angle to the cage.

Brodin should have done better here on Schenn to disrupt. Dumba then does not tie up the goal scorer and it's an easy deflection in for him. Nice play by Philly but Dumba can't be beat to the cage

*The 3rd goal is a result of Scandella injury.

 

[this providence]

Not interested in busting out measuring tape of experience around this game but Dumba isn't at fault in the neutral zone. His exchange is rough but it is what it is at that point. Again, the correct read on that flip into the zone is Brodin coming from the weak side to angle off that man. Especially when it's basically a 1-2. Dumba is in the trailing position essentially and there's really only one way he can direct his guy if he gets there, which is towards the net. Whereas Brodin has the angle to cut that man off and route his man back up the ice into help. Never mind flat beat his guy to the puck.

Dumba is subsequently beat down low, ditto Brodin. In real time, Dumba has no shot at picking up that trailer who scores the goal. That's on the forward but that's a lot to expect when you have two defenders getting that roundly beaten.

The second goal is just as much Brodin as Dumba. Again, in real time, Dumba is already beat before he exchanges due to the speed in which they entered the zone. Brodin was never in the correct position as he and his partner gave up too much gap and the Flyers exploited it. Can't pressure a carrier like that and he was subsequently beat. Again.


Again, going through these goals and actually watching them I have no idea how anyone wants to give Brodin a pass. And that's ignoring the rest of his game last night which was generally poor throughout.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Again, going through these goals and actually watching them I have no idea how anyone wants to give Brodin a pass. And that's ignoring the rest of his game last night which was generally poor throughout.

We can agree to disagree on the goals themselves, especially the first. If Dumba doesn't leave his feet, there is a chance he wins the race to the puck. Then again, I was a tender and everytime a defensemen of mine left his feet, I lost my mind. You're giving up so many strides by doing that.

But I digress, I am by no means giving Brodin a pass on either goal. I pointed out mistakes from both players. I agree, Brodin had a very poor game, one of his worst for sure. It felt like you were taking this one game and using it to say he's been consistently bad, which I don't think many will agree.

 

[gwh]

Thanks Jesus Brodin for nice screen caps.

What has been consistently bad is attempt to pair Dumba with Brodin. They seem like they have problems working together or something.

3 goals on 1 D-pair in a game. Can't happen in this league.

Overall i think Brodin has been great with Scandy and abysmal with Dumba. Last night looked like the 1st game of the season, where most of this board wanted to send Dumba to Iowa.

 

[BigT2002]

Put Scandella with Dumba and Brodin with Reilly then.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Thanks Jesus Brodin for nice screen caps.

What has been consistently bad is attempt to pair Dumba with Brodin. They seem like they have problems working together or something.

3 goals on 1 D-pair in a game. Can't happen in this league.

Overall i think Brodin has been great with Scandy and abysmal with Dumba. Last night looked like the 1st game of the season, where most of this board wanted to send Dumba to Iowa.

You're welcome.

As for the bolded, what makes it worse is Dumba was -3 in 4:41 of TOI.... He picked up a + later on but Brodin had played well over double that at this point of the game and had been fine with all other pairings.

We'll chalk it up to a poor game on both Brodin and Dumba.

I like:

Suter-Spurgeon
Brodin-Scandella
10-12 TOI- Dumba

The "6th" defensemen needs to be a veteran that can plug up 10 minutes of TOI and be a classic defensive defensemen. Who that is? Dunno. But this isn't working as is.

 

[57special]

On the first goal goal Carter actually was guilty of watching the puck rather than covering out in front. What is he trying to cover there, the boards?

Dumba got beat to the outside, but made the guy go around the net. No biggie. Brodin went to meet him at the other side. No biggie. Dumba didn't have time to scoot over and cover the far side of the net.

Carter is the one at fault. Brodin would have rightly felt that he was closest to the puck carrier so that was his man, expecting Carter take the area in front to of the net. Instead, Carter tried a to jump a possible cycling attempt, which is only fine if Dumba was out front.

Dumba is a fast skater, but not a good skater,especially side to side and transitioning while skating backwards. He has never shown a sound defensive game, but it is thought that it will get better with time. His value is on the offensive end.

On the second goal Dumba didn't cover his man going to the net. Easy to say, but hard to do without interfering.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Not Brodin's fault Dumba got shook in the corner and Carter went for a skate.

2nd goal is a harmless backhand if Dumba doesn't get beat to the net.

3rd goal Vanek's controller breaks.

That said, I agree with TP about his lack of assertiveness.

 

[Minnesota]

Put Scandella with Dumba and Brodin with Reilly then.

Don't think Reilly's NHL ready this season. Maybe next...

If anyone thinks Brodin is struggling to cover for Dumba's defensive shortcomings, pairing him with Reilly isn't going to be pretty. Just saying, Dumba was a +2 in Iowa; Reilly is -26.

 

[gwh]

Suter - Spurgeon
Scandella - Brodin
Suter - Dumba
Prosser 8min - Spurgeon

Let's see about DumBro next season. Also, no dreams of trading Scandella unless you guys want Dumba in the 1st pair with Suter.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I'd like to see this come playoffs:

Suter-Spurgeon
Scandella-Dumba
Olofsson-Brodin

That 3rd pair would be a darn good shutdown pair.

 

[gwh]

I'd like to see this come playoffs:

I d like to see Olof up in the NHL for few more games. He was really not that bad and these mid season snoozers should be great for training depth D.

 

[gwh]

TOI in last game:

Suter: 32min
Spurgeon: 29min
Brodin: 23min
Scandella: 21min
Dumba 10min
Strachan: 6min

Yeo though Brodin sucks enough to play him more than Scandy.

Brodin was playing 2min30sec shift before the 1st goal, with minimal rest. After the 1st goal he was on the bench for 5minutes.

Also Dumba sat almost 22min with minimal (90 seconds) shift time after the first goal. Then gets scored on twice in quick succession right after they put him in.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/shiftcharts?id=2015020603

Very funny shifts for the D. Some mistakes maybe, or Suter was having some problems in the start of the game?

 

[57special]

Olofsson is the guy I want to see. I'm hoping he can be a decent defensive Dman in the NHL, which is all we really need. I am going to have to trust the Wild management to bring him up when he is ready. We've got lots of offense coming from the back end. I haven't given up on Folin, either. If nothing else, I think he can be better than Prosser.

Reilly does have a bad +/-, but I don't get too concerned about that. He is second over all in Iowa in points... He seems to be another Dumba.

We are pretty stacked with Dmen, though we do need at least one to graduate up to the big league in order for me to feel good about out overall D. I'm all for Dumba being a third pairing guy 5v5, then using him on the PP.

 

[Fremitus Borealis]

Olofsson is the guy I want to see. I'm hoping he can be a decent defensive Dman in the NHL, which is all we really need. I am going to have to trust the Wild management to bring him up when he is ready. We've got lots of offense coming from the back end. I haven't given up on Folin, either. If nothing else, I think he can be better than Prosser.

Reilly does have a bad +/-, but I don't get too concerned about that. He is second over all in Iowa in points... He seems to be another Dumba.

We are pretty stacked with Dmen, though we do need at least one to graduate up to the big league in order for me to feel good about out overall D. I'm all for Dumba being a third pairing guy 5v5, then using him on the PP.

Hell, I'd argue he's pretty much there now. IIRC, the main reason he was sent down was just to give him more ice time before he'd played enough NHL games to require waivers to move up or down.

But I agree about Olofsson. He looked pretty decent in his minimal time up here last time, and it would be cool to see him build off that. Next time we play another Eastern team would be a great opportunity to give him some ice time up here.

 

[gwh]

Can we get an update on Brodin's sucking after he plays against Sequin/Sharp for most shifts last night?

Looked real tragic, right?

 

[57special]

I made a point to ignore the puck and watch Brodin as much as possible last night. He looked great. He jumped into the rush a couple of times and looked pretty threatening, just the play didn't work out for whatever reason. Was reminded again on those plays what a good skater he is.
He is definitely playing bigger this year.

Reilly also has a nice pair of wheels. If he ever gets into the lineup in place of Prosser we are going to have one hell of a great skating team.

Dumba can skate, but he really needs to do some on basic defensive skating technique. His backwards crossovers and transitions are mediocre, and he also puck watches like crazy, like most offensive Dmen. On the Coyle/ Benn hit Benn made a move to the inside then walked around him when Dumba bit hard on the move. It happens, and Benn is a great player, but you could see Dumba being mesmerized by the puck rather than just staying in front of him.