John Tortorella Named (Part Time) Head Coach Discussion

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Douche vs turd sandwich. Both suck and even if they have different makes and methods, if they still suck, they still suck.

2nd to last in GF per game.
5th worst PP in the NHL.
6th worst PK in the NHL.
4th fewest shots per game in the NHL.
8th most shots allowed in the NHL.
3rd worst face off percentage.
5th fewest goals scored at 5v5.
3rd to last in takeaways.
10th least in Expected Goals For.
3rd most in expected goals against.
Allowed the 3rd most high danger chances.
Allowed the 5th most medium danger chances.
6th most allowed low danger chances.

As with everything, while there are glaring issues at the forefront, if there are a ton of little things that are bad, whatever good may be happening for the team will surely snatched away when the actual results come home to roost. This team is terrible.

By the way, love Hart and I know he's played out of his mind, but there's gonna be a point where that will come down and the team will pay for it. If anything, it's already starting.

Adding a bit more, the Phantoms somehow have a winning record (barely), and have a bit better goals per game and a bit better goals against per game than the Flyers.
What's your point?

They're bad, and they have been crushed by injuries. What do you expect?

Are you arguing they should be better and the coaching is holding them back? I don't get it.
 
I don't think the Flyers have looked horrible. I've actually enjoyed watching them despite their being an injury-destroyed, low-talent team.

Yes, they make turnovers and mistakes that drive me (and surely the coaching staff) crazy.

But they did that last season while looking disjointed and uninterested. This season at least I see a "team." They are trying. They are moving in the right direction. I can feel it.

Their best players are playing better than they have in two years. They've got young players like Tippett looking like legit 20+ goal scorers. They are playing hard instead of going through the motions. They're in basically every game. I've got no problem watching this.
They are in every game because of Carter Hart.... now they are losing games he was winning because his save percentage slipped. You have been warned this was coming but keep beating the drum.
 
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They are in every game because of Carter Hart.... now they are losing games he was winning because his save percentage slipped. You have been warned this was coming but keep beating the drum.
Exactly who claimed they were going to keep up their early season pace?
 
What's your point?

They're bad, and they have been crushed by injuries. What do you expect?

Are you arguing they should be better and the coaching is holding them back? I don't get it.

Even with injuries, the numbers are still pretty terrible. There are other teams out there with key players on long injuries that are doing well, and being able to help make up the gap and keep the system tight and working is up to a good coach, and also a GM to supply that coach with players that should be at the NHL level. Avs are without Nuke, Landy, Helms (still a good PKer) and Bowers for a while, and they are still winning. Then you even have teams who truly have so many nothing players like the Yotes and they technically have a slightly higher goals per game than the Flyers. Habs were dead last last year and they are so far look like they are actually improving and have a slight lead on the Flyers in the standings. Flyers could easily be down to 24th place in the NHL by Wednesday.
 
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Even with injuries, the numbers are still pretty terrible. There are other teams out there with key players on long injuries that are doing well, and being able to help make up the gap and keep the system tight and working is up to a good coach, and also a GM to supply that coach with players that should be at the NHL level. Avs are without Nuke, Landy, Helms (still a good PKer) and Bowers for a while, and they are still winning. Then you even have teams who truly have so many nothing players like the Yotes and they technically have a slightly higher goals per game than the Flyers. Habs were dead last last year and they are so far look like they are actually improving and have a slight lead on the Flyers in the standings. Flyers could easily be down to 24th place in the NHL by Wednesday.
So you are comparing the Flyers to the f'ing Avalanche? Come on, dude. Last I looked they have MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Makar all healthy.

All I read this summer was how bad the Flyers were going to be. That was before they got crushed with injuries. So I don't understand the complaining that they should be doing better. 7 wins in 18 games is not a disappointment for this group.
 
So you are comparing the Flyers to the f'ing Avalanche? Come on, dude. Last I looked they have MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Makar all healthy.

All I read this summer was how bad the Flyers were going to be. That was before they got crushed with injuries. So I don't understand the complaining that they should be doing better. 7 wins in 18 games is not a disappointment for this group.

Who is complaining that they should be better or is disappointed with the outcomes? I think everyone critical just knew they were going to suck and often reiterates the obvious reasons why they suck. I think they're overperforming, honestly.
 
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Who is complaining that they should be better or is disappointed with the outcomes? I think everyone critical just knew they were going to suck and often reiterates the obvious reasons why they suck. I think they're overperforming, honestly.

That's kind of what I mean. Hart is carrying this team on his back like mad this year and as of lately, his godly game is slipping a bit and because of this slip, it's been way more noticeable how not good the Flyers are.
 
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Remember when they were winning and the staff fanatics were swearing that the team looked better than last year? That the effort was better, the compete was better, the defense was better?

All as an way effort to praise Torts and Fletcher? Even claiming that Deslauriers and MacEwen fighting was making a difference?

That’s what people said was imaginary. And we were right, as usual. The team is clearly worse than last year.
 
Who is complaining that they should be better or is disappointed with the outcomes? I think everyone critical just knew they were going to suck and often reiterates the obvious reasons why they suck. I think they're overperforming, honestly.
Just look at the post I was replying to.

Someone who used the Colorado Avalanche as a point of comparison.

Or read the GDTs. It's endless complaining as if they should be better. They're missing about 4 RWs and you've got people complaining that MacEwen, with 7 points in 16 games, is bumped up in the lineup.

You'd think it would be, "Yeah, well, what do you expect?" But that's sure not the tone of most posts. The implication is that they should be better.
 
Just look at the post I was replying to.

Someone who used the Colorado Avalanche as a point of comparison.

Or read the GDTs. It's endless complaining as if they should be better. They're missing about 4 RWs and you've got people complaining that MacEwen, with 7 points in 16 games, is bumped up in the lineup.

You'd think it would be, "Yeah, well, what do you expect?" But that's sure not the tone of most posts. The implication is that they should be better.

I don't get that sense at all that that's the implication. I mean, people think the team should be better because it should have better players on the team. And we complain about these shitty f***ing players because we want to watch players who aren't them.

His comparison to the Avalanche was like, "look, here's a team that isn't 100% comprised of braindead dipshits and AHL fodder, they're missing some of the best players in the world and they're still a viable team, so injuries are a lame excuse." Almost like he's saying that good hockey teams usually carry more than 4 guys with talent and a hockey IQ above 14.

Also, yes, the team is missing some RWs, but it's a team entirely comprised of RWs, and Zac Mac should still be no higher than the 4th line despite his sick 7 points. I think no one's literally writing "Well, what do you expect?" because it's implicit in every single post already. We don't expect better from the guys in this lineup. We expect to watch actual NHL players someday.

This translates to the coach because people would like to see him use certain players who may have that upside over ones who clearly don't. Since we all don't expect them to win games anyway.
 
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Actually the Avs aren't missing a lot of good players, Helms is a 4C, it's basically Landeskog and Nichushkin, and yes, they're being carried by their goaltenders. .927% Sv % will cover a multitude of sins, especially when you can still dress MacKinnon, Toews, Makar and Rantanen
 
Actually the Avs aren't missing a lot of good players, Helms is a 4C, it's basically Landeskog and Nichushkin, and yes, they're being carried by their goaltenders. .927% Sv % will cover a multitude of sins, especially when you can still dress MacKinnon, Toews, Makar and Rantanen
Yeah, Landeskog, Nichushkin, and Byram aren’t a lot of good players. Not even close.

Come on, man.
 
I forgot that the Devils hired Brunette as assistant coach to help with offense, while the Flyers hired Rocky Thompson.

I have no idea how Florida skipped over him when he did well and then got no head coach role anywhere.

I'll be honest, if the Flyers do get rid of Chuck and co, including Torts, Brunette would 100% be my target. Also, wasn't there something about his contract stating that he can contact outside interviews for HC jobs?
 
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I have no idea how Florida skipped over him when he did well and then got no head coach role anywhere.

I'll be honest, if the Flyers do get rid of Chuck and co, including Torts, Brunette would 100% be my target. Also, wasn't there something about his contract stating that he can contact outside interviews for HC jobs?

He absolutely made missteps in the playoffs as a rookie coach. I partly understand making that tough judgment call for a team in their window of contention (I do think this year will be more preparing for cap space for next). Now, firing him for Paul Maurice isn’t exactly it.

As a younger coach in a pretty forward thinking organization, coaching under Quenneville, with an emphasis on high octane offense and play-driving, I think he was worth a gamble as an assistant to possibly groom. Funny part? He was previously AGM/assistant coach to Fletcher in Minnesota. I believe they did inquire, but he chose the Devils. Interpret as you will.

There’s plenty of fish in the sea. It’s more that the Flyers always manage to choose the gassy dead ones floating on the surface.
 
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I forgot that the Devils hired Brunette as assistant coach to help with offense, while the Flyers hired Rocky Thompson.
What is wrong with Thompson. If it wasn't for his reputation as a fighter, his resume would be exactly what people here want.
CHL, AHL, and NHL coaching experience.

Served as head coach of the Chicago Wolves for three seasons before joining San Jose. In 2019, he took the Wolves to the Calder Cup Final, and overall he had a 113-71-29 record behind the bench. He also coached the Windsor Spitfires for two seasons, winning the Memorial Cup in 2017. He helped the Saint John Seadogs repeat that unique feat as an advisor this year.

Five years ago he supported cutting edge strategy based on analytics, he's anything but a dinosaur


What was in the presentation I asked?

“It was broke up into three parts: Skill, principles and adjustments,” replied Thompson

“With any offense you need skill. If you have low skill or if the individual or the team has no skill it is not that you can’t produced offence, but it is really difficult. Skill is an important factor.

“And then if you do have skill, what are certain areas of the ice that skill players can take advantage of to increase their scoring percentages? I had a whole bunch of analytics done by Steve Valiquette (former NHL goalie), who has his own analytics company, but back then (2015) coaches looking deep into these things wasn’t that common.

“The principles, and I’m sure everyone has watched the Michael Jordan documentary and the triangle offence, well I was calling mine two-on-one support offence. But when you really break it down, you can see the triangle in that same structure. I brought up old clips where you could see this offence existed no matter what era you played in, and it was generated from these principles. The speed and skill has changed in different areas, but the principles have always been there and I was able to show that and outline why they are important offensively.

“Finally, just showing adjustments. When you are doing something offensively, it could work against a certain team or a certain D zone structure, or the way a team plays gaps, but you have to be prepared as a coach to make an adjustment and not just keep hammering a square peg in a round hole.

Jason Strudwick: The game has evolved a lot, and not much of it is about speed. How has your thought process of how hockey should be played evolved from when you played and then started coaching?

Thompson: I like how the rules have changed my idea of the game. Don’t get me wrong, I love physicality and things like that, but I think it (the game) is better now.

In regard to the speed, that’s where I think that the game has really changed recently.
You’ll see its evolving with how the defencemen are being utilized right now. It’s happening in all three zones. With the defencemen activating from their D zone transition up the ice and leading the charge, you’ll see D-men leading rushes, you’ll see defencemen charging the net. It’s happened in the past to some degree, but not as much as you’re seeing it right now.

The transition of the game in the mid zone is something that has really changed. I think Gerard Gallant was a leader in that. You can ask anyone in the NHL and they will say Vegas is the best transition team in the league and they really are. It’s how they transition and how the defencemen get involved, in how they transition through the mid zone. It is fun and it’s something new and not everyone is doing it yet.

And then the activation of the defencemen in the offensive zone. If you watch Colorado, and of course you need players who can do it, but I think that you can do it with anybody personally. If you have smart reads and you’re smart it doesn’t mean that you have to be Cale Makar or Sam Girard or Shea Theodore or Erik Karlsson or Brent Burns. You don’t have to be the Norris Trophy winner to be seeing that offense in the offensive zone and not just from the blue line. Getting involved and activating in D zone coverages creates a ton of confusion coming out of the high ice with your defense activating.

You’ve got to have trust so that your forwards are going to cover you as a defenceman, but at the end of the day, you’ve (D-man) got to be responsible. You named Hedman and Heiskanen — those guys are always doing it — so what you would do in the past is you would stick a defensive defenceman with one of those types of players.

What I’m saying is look at Jamie Oleksiak in the playoffs, he is supposed to be the guy protecting Heskanen. This guy has been up the ice and it’s made a whole difference in his production in the playoffs. And they weren’t playing like this during the year, Dallas wasn’t. Something has changed and it has made their defense on of the most offensively productive in the post season.

Thompson: Well that’s the thing too and you’re right, your defenceman are not used to this stuff so when you implement it early, it’s almost like it’s not sure if they want to do it because it is so much more work than they are used to.

When we were taught as defenceman… you make a good first pass and then it’s over, perfect. You’ve got to work a little to make a little bit of gap in case they turn it over but outside of that, that’s not too difficult. Now, it is pass it and then get up the ice. And if it hasn’t materialised by the tops of the circles or the oppositions top hash mark in front of the net, high to mid slot, well then disengage until it is safe. But we want them involved. So that’s why you’re seeing more and more skating defencemen and you will see more drafted that way, and smaller players who maybe people would have overlooked a little bit. But they are so good with their skating.

So, it’s not that he can defend very good, but it’s a form of defense when he has the puck all of the time and he’s skating it out of his end and getting up the ice. He’s making the other teams defend longer and forcing them to work harder in different areas and then when they get it, they don’t have the energy to take advantage of a three inch stick that the guy is trying to defend with.

see also From gap-toothed goon to buttoned-down bench boss, Rocky Thompson poised to one day be an NHL coach
 

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