Value of: John Gibson to the Leafs

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Luongo...

When the last time you saw an elite goalie with term get traded

Bertuzzi had 71 but fine even still that was 2006 it's 2022, that doesn't happen anymore

Fredrik Andersen was a top 10 goalie in the league when he was traded to Toronto

MAF was traded to Chicago a year after winning the Vezina

Hell Fluery was traded to Vegas a year after winning a cup

an 80 point forward for a goalie, any goalie is an overpayment

 

[thusk]

Bertuzzi had 71 but fine even still that was 2006 it's 2022, that doesn't happen anymore

Fredrik Andersen was a top 10 goalie in the league when he was traded to Toronto

MAF was traded to Chicago a year after winning the Vezina

Hell Fluery was traded to Vegas a year after winning a cup

an 80 point forward for a goalie, any goalie is an overpayment

Andersen was playing 1 season in carreer as starter 1 and 1 as tandem when he was traded... not even close of top 10

Fleury with no term / just for a year or result of expansion draft...

So you choosing stamkos over vasilevskiy to win a cup???

The fact is team with elite g when they have it, they keep it thats why you dont see a lot of good goalie traded... when its happening most of the time, its the #2 when traded... simple as that because goalie is and will always be the most important player in hockey.

 

[AcerComputer]

You think Gibson has one of the worst contracts in the NHL, and he holds no more value than Grubauer? or did I miss something here..?

Grubauer has a lower Caphit and has been the better goalie the last 3 years. Even in a down year, playing on the lowly SK, his numbers aren't much worse than Gibson.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Andersen was playing 1 season in carreer as starter 1 and 1 as tandem when he was traded... not even close of top 10

Fleury with no term / just for a year or result of expansion draft...

Your highlighting the best case scenario with Gibson and blindly ignoring everything that could go wrong. 2022 1st, Robertson, Rubins, and Mrazek is fair. 2 years of Mrazek is low risk for a rebuilding ducks team, 5 years at 6.4 million for Gibson if anything goes wrong closes Torontos window and may even be the catalyst for matthews walking.

 

[AcerComputer]

Nylander is a good player, you just don’t know which version you get from game to game. Do you get the good player or the one that doesn’t seem interested in competing each game.

80 point players don't grow on tree. 900save% goalies do.

 

[thusk]

Your highlighting the best case scenario with Gibson and blindly ignoring everything that could go wrong. 2022 1st, Robertson, Rubins, and Mrazek is fair. 2 years of Mrazek is low risk for a rebuilding ducks team, 5 years at 6.4 million for Gibson if anything goes wrong closes Torontos window and may even be the catalyst for matthews walking.

You consider Gibson like an okay goalie...

i consider gibson as 1 of 5 best g in the world ( like AJNHL) in one of 3-4 worst team in the NHL since 3 season.

If anything go wrong? Its been already 6 years leafs are unable to win a playoff series because their goalie cant make key save at key time, whats can go worse???

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

You consider Gibson like an okay goalie...

i consider gibson as 1 of 5 best g in the world ( like AJNHL) in one of 3-4 worst team in the NHL since 3 season.

If anything go wrong? Its been already 6 years leafs are unable to win a playoff series because their goalie cant make key save at key time, whats can go worse???

What can be worse is trading Nylander for him, having no 2nd line and him not being the goalie we hoped for. Resulting in Matthews deciding the leafs window is closed and he decides to walk. I'm all for giving a good package for him, but that package does not include any of Nylander,Liljegren, Knies going the other way. 2022 1st, 2023 1st top 10 protected, Robertson, Niemela, Hirvonen, Holmberg are all on the table in some combination for Gibson. Thats more then enough.

 

[DavidBL]

What can be worse is trading Nylander for him, having no 2nd line and him not being the goalie we hoped for. Resulting in Matthews deciding the leafs window is closed and he decides to walk. I'm all for giving a good package for him, but that package does not include any of Nylander,Liljegren, Knies going the other way. 2022 1st, 2023 1st top 10 protected, Robertson, Niemela, Hirvonen, Holmberg are all on the table in some combination for Gibson. Thats more then enough.

What prevents Tor from addressing forward needs in FA, Like Perron or Rakell?

 

[thusk]

What can be worse is trading Nylander for him, having no 2nd line and him not being the goalie we hoped for. Resulting in Matthews deciding the leafs window is closed and he decides to walk. I'm all for giving a good package for him, but that package does not include any of Nylander,Liljegren, Knies going the other way. 2022 1st, 2023 1st top 10 protected, Robertson, Niemela, Hirvonen, Holmberg are all on the table in some combination for Gibson. Thats more then enough.

Of unstead of paying 7M nylander and 4-5 M for an other goalie, why not just paying an elite 6.4M and sign a player like perron or hometown giroux or palat or copp or nichushkin or whatever who you want around 4.5-5M. Its a LOT more easier to find a foward who can help you than at elite goaltender. Leafs dont necessairly need a 80 points foward unidimentionnal. A 50-60 player who can bring offensive, intensity and defensive play on playoff can be as good

 

[seanlinden]

Gibson has been disinterested the last few years, but Lindholm has only played 135 games and Manson played 118 out of 209 games those 3 seasons (65% and 56%). Fowler (the only other top 4 D on the roster) played in about 90% of games so Ducks usually had at least 1 top 4 in almost every game. But with Lindholm and Manson missing 35% and 44% of games (plus probably playing hurt/getting back in shape for several of the games they did play in) the Ducks usually had bottom pair guys playing on the top pair.

Add in the Ducks had 0 star forwards. Even the ones that are poor defensively control the puck and can keep pressure on the opposite end. Ducks are constantly in their own zone until the other team gets an open shot in close.

It's a gamble, but less than what the stats show. When the team is competent, Gibson is good (beginning of the season), but it's been lacking talent and defensive structure for 3 years now. He's just not a peak Price or Hasek that's going to single handedly take his team to the playoffs. If you look at the talent on the ice, the Ducks should have been picking much higher this draft.

There are countless examples of good goalies playing well behind bad teams. Gibson hasn't done that.

Like I said, Gibson has value, there's a lot of (not great) teams that would look at him and say "at the very least, he's going to stabilize the position with my young team infront of him". New Jersey, Buffalo, Detroit, Chicago, should all be keenly interested. If Florida can do a Bobrovsky+ for Gibson swap, then I think that makes a ton of sense for them.

However, that doesn't mean it's going to make sense for a Toronto, or Colorado, or even Edmonton, who have precious little cap space, to go out and pay Gibson legit #1 money, plus give up a haul of futures to do it. One of them might do it, but they're going to be taking a fairly substantial leap of faith in doing so.

 

[colchar]

Campbell was not the problem, stop it.

The OP has a serious man crush on Gibson.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

The OP has a serious man crush on Gibson.

Agreed it was matthews nylander Tavares and marner not being big game players

 

[seanlinden]

What can be worse is trading Nylander for him, having no 2nd line and him not being the goalie we hoped for. Resulting in Matthews deciding the leafs window is closed and he decides to walk. I'm all for giving a good package for him, but that package does not include any of Nylander,Liljegren, Knies going the other way. 2022 1st, 2023 1st top 10 protected, Robertson, Niemela, Hirvonen, Holmberg are all on the table in some combination for Gibson. Thats more then enough.

From Toronto's perspective, getting Gibson is not necessarily about what you give up to get him -- it's about what you have to give up to make space for him.

If Anaheim wants to retain $2.4m and take Mrazek back, then absolutely, you probably go and part with Liljegren, 1st rounder, Robertson, etc... but asking a team to retain on a player for 5 years, when they can likely move him elsewhere with no retention, is a fairly monumental task. It's also double what the Leafs retained on Kessel when they moved him.

If you're acquiring Gibson at $6.4m, even if you assume Mrazek going the other way, then practically speaking, Nylander has to go... probably not in the same deal as I don't think Anaheim is in a position to really benefit from Nylander, but he's the cap space required to do it.

edit: that being said... even if Anaheim is cool with the concept of Gibson at say, $4.5m for Mrazek at $3.8m + a haul... I think if you're the Leafs, you've gotta ask yourself. Would you rather have:

Gibson at $4.5m or Campbell at $5m plus the haul of futures you'd have to give up, minus the small asset you might have to attach to Mrazek to dump him.

 

[thusk]

From Toronto's perspective, getting Gibson is not necessarily about what you give up to get him -- it's about what you have to give up to make space for him.

If Anaheim wants to retain $2.4m and take Mrazek back, then absolutely, you probably go and part with Liljegren, 1st rounder, Robertson, etc... but asking a team to retain on a player for 5 years, when they can likely move him elsewhere with no retention, is a fairly monumental task. It's also double what the Leafs retained on Kessel when they moved him.

If you're acquiring Gibson at $6.4m, even if you assume Mrazek going the other way, then practically speaking, Nylander has to go... probably not in the same deal as I don't think Anaheim is in a position to really benefit from Nylander, but he's the cap space required to do it.

Thats it

 

[lwvs84]

There are countless examples of good goalies playing well behind bad teams. Gibson hasn't done that.

Like I said, Gibson has value, there's a lot of (not great) teams that would look at him and say "at the very least, he's going to stabilize the position with my young team infront of him". New Jersey, Buffalo, Detroit, Chicago, should all be keenly interested. If Florida can do a Bobrovsky+ for Gibson swap, then I think that makes a ton of sense for them.

However, that doesn't mean it's going to make sense for a Toronto, or Colorado, or even Edmonton, who have precious little cap space, to go out and pay Gibson legit #1 money, plus give up a haul of futures to do it. One of them might do it, but they're going to be taking a fairly substantial leap of faith in doing so.

There are, but usually bad teams at least play average defense because they don't have the talent to play offense, or at least have 1 or 2 top line/top pair players. Ducks neither had the talent or the coaching. Grub just went from the Avs (around same talent as Leafs) to Kraken (about same level as Ducks) and that killed his stats. Look at starting goalies under Eakins, 5 seasons as an NHL coach and .894, .890, .904, .903, .904. Those goalies the year before/after playing for Eakins: .920/.916, .931 (before trade)/.906, .917/???

Actually, maybe the talent on the team isn't the problem...

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

From Toronto's perspective, getting Gibson is not necessarily about what you give up to get him -- it's about what you have to give up to make space for him.

If Anaheim wants to retain $2.4m and take Mrazek back, then absolutely, you probably go and part with Liljegren, 1st rounder, Robertson, etc... but asking a team to retain on a player for 5 years, when they can likely move him elsewhere with no retention, is a fairly monumental task. It's also double what the Leafs retained on Kessel when they moved him.

If you're acquiring Gibson at $6.4m, even if you assume Mrazek going the other way, then practically speaking, Nylander has to go... probably not in the same deal as I don't think Anaheim is in a position to really benefit from Nylander, but he's the cap space required to do it.

edit: that being said... even if Anaheim is cool with the concept of Gibson at say, $4.5m for Mrazek at $3.8m + a haul... I think if you're the Leafs, you've gotta ask yourself. Would you rather have:

Gibson at $4.5m or Campbell at $5m plus the haul of futures you'd have to give up, minus the small asset you might have to attach to Mrazek to dump him.

This makes a ton of sense, thanks for your perspective.

 

[AuraSphere]

The OP has a serious man crush on Gibson.

I do too - its only people that haven't watched Gibson and just stat watch that are disinterested in this idea given the ".904" save percentage.

Gibson is a top 5 goalie in the league on a good team - book it

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The OP has a serious man crush on Gibson.

I've actually seen him play so I know he's the guy to go get when you live out west you get to watch the western teams

 

[elmaco]

You know so little about hockey I'm hesitant to respond. Nylander is an 80 point winger who is also just as productive in the play offs. You need a nap your drunk.


I'd bring back Campbell and sign holtby as back up.

Nylander cannot outscore a bad goalie, im sorry but you are dumb.

 

[makbeer]

goals 1 and 2 were weak in game 6. I'm not going to talk about the other goals cause you are in love with Campbell and nothing is going to change that. HE SUCKS

first goal of game 7 was weak af too.

 

[makbeer]

From Toronto's perspective, getting Gibson is not necessarily about what you give up to get him -- it's about what you have to give up to make space for him.

If Anaheim wants to retain $2.4m and take Mrazek back, then absolutely, you probably go and part with Liljegren, 1st rounder, Robertson, etc... but asking a team to retain on a player for 5 years, when they can likely move him elsewhere with no retention, is a fairly monumental task. It's also double what the Leafs retained on Kessel when they moved him.

If you're acquiring Gibson at $6.4m, even if you assume Mrazek going the other way, then practically speaking, Nylander has to go... probably not in the same deal as I don't think Anaheim is in a position to really benefit from Nylander, but he's the cap space required to do it.

edit: that being said... even if Anaheim is cool with the concept of Gibson at say, $4.5m for Mrazek at $3.8m + a haul... I think if you're the Leafs, you've gotta ask yourself. Would you rather have:

Gibson at $4.5m or Campbell at $5m plus the haul of futures you'd have to give up, minus the small asset you might have to attach to Mrazek to dump him.

IF you believe Gibson can be top 5 in the NHL in net again, it's absolutely worth it to trade away non-roster assets and have him over Campbell.

If you believe he's going to be a middle of the pack starter it's not.

 

[Big Muddy]

I don't care what anyone (you and myself included) think is the right price for Gibson. That is between Dubas and Verbeek.

This is true. Value discussion are pointless and completely irrelevant if one of the teams involved really isn't interested in the deal.

No GM should care about the Leafs cap situation and that Dubas needs to do whatever to make it work. That's the Leaf's and Dubas problem, and no one else's.

 

[Big Muddy]

You know so little about hockey I'm hesitant to respond. Nylander is an 80 point winger who is also just as productive in the play offs. You need a nap your drunk.


I'd bring back Campbell and sign holtby as back up.

Hes still an 80 point player either way and is near or ppg in the playoffs as well. Those players don't get traded for goalies.

It's irrelevant what the value is. Ducks, or any other team needs to be interested in moving the player. If there's little or no interest, then there's no need to even discuss value.

It's not the other GM's problem what Dubas needs to do make the trade work for the Leafs. That's Dubas problem and no one else.

No GM is obligated to deal with the Leafs.

 

[Big Muddy]

If this year was an anomaly at .904, you might have a point...

But Gibson's numbers have been pretty crappy for 3 years now.

Well, Dubas should find a better goalie then. It's not the Ducks job to solve that problem for the Leafs.

 

[Big Muddy]

Any GM that trades Nylander for Gibson straight up should be fired. Ask yourself this, Would you trade Kevin Fiala straight up for Gibson? Same player different name.

I think you are in for a big shock. That contract is onerous, and one of the worst in the NHL. No on is giving you a prospect + 1st + something else, yet alone not even taking a bad contract back. Laughable. I think teams would have about as much interest in Gibson as they would Grubauer.

Yes it is an overpay when was the las time you saw a goalie return an 80 point forward? it doesn't happen

Ducks don't need to deal with Leafs either to solve Leaf's goaltending issues. That's not their concern. That's Dubas's problem alone to solve.