Value of: John Gibson to the Leafs

[Hockey 4 Life]

With wich you having the best chance to win the cup

With a 1 pts/ game winger or elite goalie...oups tampa already respond to it when they won with vasilevskiy without stamkos.

The most important player in a hockey team is the goalie, thats why tampa a so hard to beat in playoff. Get a guy able to make you win 1-0 or 2-1 in a match #7 having much more value than a winger. How many goalie battle leafs need to loose again on every key game to understand how important is a good goalie in your tean

Gibson at his best isn't better then vas, and Tampa is deep everywhere. Trading Nylander for Gibson makes Toronto a 1 line team. Your obsessed with Gibson and are willing to gut our team to get him.

Don't think thats the ask. Seems like the ask is pretty much 1st + Robertson + Mrazek



They quite easily can if they trade Muzzin. Problems will arise once Matthews contract is up though. So we can easily afford 2 years of Gibson, but the latter 3 gets difficult

From 1 or 2 ducks fans and thats more then a reasonable ask but for the rest they want much more then that package.

 

[seanlinden]

And Gibson wouldn't have let in any softies I am sure. He would have gone from a 904% regular season goalie to finding his game in the playoffs I am sure. If we can't sign Kuemper or Cambell for free, I honestly rather use that cap space on a forward, and start Kallgren.

I don't pretend to watch all of Gibson's games, but the reality is when you're a .904 goalie, there's likely a bunch of softies in there.

Gibson has been a career .912 goalie in the playoffs, but all of his playoff numbers have occurred in years when he was a .920+ goalie in the regular season.

We talk about a 28 goalie not about a 35

How many do you think goalie like saros, shesterkins or sorokin will win next contract? Probably over 8M

Andersen choosing carolina and im pretty sure he refuse more money somewhere else

6.4M is a really good price for an elite goalie

With respect to the bolded, you're correct. But John Gibson is not an elite goalie, or at the very least, has not been anywhere near one over the last 3 years.

I'm not saying that Gibson at $6.4m is negative value or anything like that, I just think that a good team, who needs a goalie is going to have to take a fairly big leap of faith in him needing a change of scenery to believe that he's their guy in net, and worth committing #1 money to.

There's lots of bad teams who will happily acquire him to stabilize the goaltending position, get some upside, but bad teams are generally not going to give up big hauls of futures.

 

[thusk]

Gibson at his best isn't better then vas, and Tampa is deep everywhere. Trading Nylander for Gibson makes Toronto a 1 line team. Your obsessed with Gibson and are willing to gut our team to get him.


From 1 or 2 ducks fans and thats more then a reasonable ask but for the rest they want much more then that package.

Im not telling hes better but he can battle hard against...

Unstead of paying a foward 7M and a goalie 4M , why not paying a goalie 6.4M and a foward 4.6M

 

[thusk]

I don't pretend to watch all of Gibson's games, but the reality is when you're a .904 goalie, there's likely a bunch of softies in there.

Gibson has been a career .912 goalie in the playoffs, but all of his playoff numbers have occurred in years when he was a .920+ goalie in the regular season.



With respect to the bolded, you're correct. But John Gibson is not an elite goalie, or at the very least, has not been anywhere near one over the last 3 years.

I'm not saying that Gibson at $6.4m is negative value or anything like that, I just think that a good team, who needs a goalie is going to have to take a fairly big leap of faith in him needing a change of scenery to believe that he's their guy in net, and worth committing #1 money to.

There's lots of bad teams who will happily acquire him to stabilize the goaltending position, get some upside, but bad teams are generally not going to give up big hauls of futures.

When manson and lindholm still in the line up this season, gibson was at 0.922%. He drop at 0.904% when he lost 2 of 3 only d able to defend on his team

Thats the d line up to end this season

Vaakanainen-drysdale
Mahura-shattenkirk
Benoit-Sustr

Its an ahl D

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

What is ANA adding for someone to take that contract for what is now a 904% goalie. Gotta start with a 1st I imagine, and then take back some salary in Mrazek.

Heh leaf fans everybody

Gibson at his best isn't better then vas, and Tampa is deep everywhere. Trading Nylander for Gibson makes Toronto a 1 line team. Your obsessed with Gibson and are willing to gut our team to get him.


From 1 or 2 ducks fans and thats more then a reasonable ask but for the rest they want much more then that package.

I mean obviously people will want more…. But at the end of the day I think Gibson wants out…. And I think verbeek prob wants a shot at a high pick in 23

Getting a good prospect + 1st is fine, maybe be small adds in that but some duck fans are unrealistic…. There may be small pieces in that proposal I just don’t care to argue about small pieces, I’m more concerned with big pieces.

Gibson has a Ntc, and his stats havnt been amazing…. Unfortunately that is going to hurt his value…. Some duck fans can’t deal with that because we watch him nightly and realize he is our best player…. And losing him for a lot less than you hope for is tough

 

[thusk]

Heh leaf fans everybody


I mean obviously people will want more…. But at the end of the day I think Gibson wants out…. And I think verbeek prob wants a shot at a high pick in 23

Getting a good prospect + 1st is fine, maybe be small adds in that but some duck fans are unrealistic…. There may be small pieces in that proposal I just don’t care to argue about small pieces, I’m more concerned with big pieces.

Gibson has a Ntc, and his stats havnt been amazing…. Unfortunately that is going to hurt his value…. Some duck fans can’t deal with that because we watch him nightly and realize he is our best player…. And losing him for a lot less than you hope for is tough

Youre right a 1st and good prospect as basis, its right

Adding a guy mrazek for cap reason becoming really minor in that kind of trade.

 

[lwvs84]

I don't pretend to watch all of Gibson's games, but the reality is when you're a .904 goalie, there's likely a bunch of softies in there.

Every goalie lets in some, but Gibson doesn't give up as many as you'd think with that save percentage. A lot of them are when the Ducks are getting blown out. Shattenkirk (a good offensive #6 D) is the #1 RHD on the team, #2 is a 19 year old or Sustr (was Manson, but he only played about half the season, less the year before). The big problem is the Ducks really only had 1 D on the ice that could play defense at a time and only 2 good defensive forwards in the top 9. You have no idea how many goals against were because a d-man or C just left his assignment alone in front of the net.

Eakins also isn't a great NHL coach, career winning % of 42% is partially because of lack of talent on the teams, partially because he's better suited for the AHL. Another Ducks poster pointed it out, look at Gibson's stats under Eakins and and anyone/everyone else.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Hypothetically... If they end up doing Nylander for Gibson, I feel like a deal with LA involving T.Moore and Arvidsson for Kerfoot (+ unknown futures) would make sense.

Arvidsson, Moore, and Gibson make 12.525 combined
Nylander and Kerfoot make 10.462 combined + Buying out Mrazek saves Toronto 2.767
10.462 + 2.767 = 13.299

Nylander becomes Arvidsson
Kerfoot becomes T.Moore
Mrazek becomes Gibson
and the Leafs save about $0.700 on cap space

Now IDK what LA would want on top of Kerfoot, so it may not be feasible.. but I'm saying they look to be compatible trade partners on paper at least. It would be a way for the Leafs to counter the glaring hole Nylander leaves on the roster if they trade him for a goalie.

 

[seanlinden]

When manson and lindholm still in the line up this season, gibson was at 0.922%. He drop at 0.904% when he lost 2 of 3 only d able to defend on his team

Thats the d line up to end this season

Vaakanainen-drysdale
Mahura-shattenkirk
Benoit-Sustr

Its an ahl D

If this year was an anomaly at .904, you might have a point...

But Gibson's numbers have been pretty crappy for 3 years now.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Hypothetically... If they end up doing Nylander for Gibson, I feel like a deal with LA involving T.Moore and Arvidsson for Kerfoot (+ unknown futures) would make sense.

Arvidsson, Moore, and Gibson make 12.525 combined
Nylander and Kerfoot make 10.462 combined + Buying out Mrazek saves Toronto 2.767
10.462 + 2.767 = 13.299

Nylander becomes Arvidsson
Kerfoot becomes T.Moore
Mrazek becomes Gibson
and the Leafs save about $0.700 on cap space

Now IDK what LA would want on top of Kerfoot, so it may not be feasible.. but I'm saying they look to be compatible trade partners on paper at least. It would be a way for the Leafs to counter the glaring hole Nylander leaves on the roster if they trade him for a goalie.

Why would kings do that out of curiosity…. They made it as far as Toronto this post season

 

[thusk]

If this year was an anomaly at .904, you might have a point...

But Gibson's numbers have been pretty crappy for 3 years now.

I think people didnt realise than outside of fowler, lindholm and Manson, anaheim was pretty weak in D + you adding Manson and lindholm missed a lot of game last 3 season.

Manson played
2019-2020 : played 50
2020-2021 23

Lindholm
2019- 2020 56
2020-2021 18

Thats clearly didnt help a goalie

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Hypothetically... If they end up doing Nylander for Gibson, I feel like a deal with LA involving T.Moore and Arvidsson for Kerfoot (+ unknown futures) would make sense.

Arvidsson, Moore, and Gibson make 12.525 combined
Nylander and Kerfoot make 10.462 combined + Buying out Mrazek saves Toronto 2.767
10.462 + 2.767 = 13.299

Nylander becomes Arvidsson
Kerfoot becomes T.Moore
Mrazek becomes Gibson
and the Leafs save about $0.700 on cap space

Now IDK what LA would want on top of Kerfoot, so it may not be feasible.. but I'm saying they look to be compatible trade partners on paper at least. It would be a way for the Leafs to counter the glaring hole Nylander leaves on the roster if they trade him for a goalie.

Nylander won't be traded for Gibson, I'd rather trade Nylander to LA for Vilardi+Grans package.

 

[BlueBaron]

Nylander is a good player, you just don’t know which version you get from game to game. Do you get the good player or the one that doesn’t seem interested in competing each game.

That wasn't true this year.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Hypothetically... If they end up doing Nylander for Gibson, I feel like a deal with LA involving T.Moore and Arvidsson for Kerfoot (+ unknown futures) would make sense.

Arvidsson, Moore, and Gibson make 12.525 combined
Nylander and Kerfoot make 10.462 combined + Buying out Mrazek saves Toronto 2.767
10.462 + 2.767 = 13.299

Nylander becomes Arvidsson
Kerfoot becomes T.Moore
Mrazek becomes Gibson
and the Leafs save about $0.700 on cap space

Now IDK what LA would want on top of Kerfoot, so it may not be feasible.. but I'm saying they look to be compatible trade partners on paper at least. It would be a way for the Leafs to counter the glaring hole Nylander leaves on the roster if they trade him for a goalie.

Any GM that trades Nylander for Gibson straight up should be fired. Ask yourself this, Would you trade Kevin Fiala straight up for Gibson? Same player different name.

 

[tomd]

Any GM that trades Nylander for Gibson straight up should be fired. Ask yourself this, Would you trade Kevin Fiala straight up for Gibson? Same player different name.

A rebuilding team like Anaheim has no need for a player who will be a UFA in 2 years.

 

[Fainting Couch]

You would like Gibson to play at least 55 of the 89 games the Leafs will play next season.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

A rebuilding team like Anaheim has no need for a player who will be a UFA in 2 years.

Still doesn't change the fact that trading Nylander for Gibson is an absurd overpay.

 

[thusk]

Still doesn't change the fact that trading Nylander for Gibson is an absurd overpay.

No its not an overpay... i take gibson before nylander anytime to win a cup and its not even close

But its not what duck want

 

[lwvs84]

If this year was an anomaly at .904, you might have a point...

But Gibson's numbers have been pretty crappy for 3 years now.

Gibson has been disinterested the last few years, but Lindholm has only played 135 games and Manson played 118 out of 209 games those 3 seasons (65% and 56%). Fowler (the only other top 4 D on the roster) played in about 90% of games so Ducks usually had at least 1 top 4 in almost every game. But with Lindholm and Manson missing 35% and 44% of games (plus probably playing hurt/getting back in shape for several of the games they did play in) the Ducks usually had bottom pair guys playing on the top pair.

Add in the Ducks had 0 star forwards. Even the ones that are poor defensively control the puck and can keep pressure on the opposite end. Ducks are constantly in their own zone until the other team gets an open shot in close.

It's a gamble, but less than what the stats show. When the team is competent, Gibson is good (beginning of the season), but it's been lacking talent and defensive structure for 3 years now. He's just not a peak Price or Hasek that's going to single handedly take his team to the playoffs. If you look at the talent on the ice, the Ducks should have been picking much higher this draft.

 

[AcerComputer]

Heh leaf fans everybody


I mean obviously people will want more…. But at the end of the day I think Gibson wants out…. And I think verbeek prob wants a shot at a high pick in 23

Getting a good prospect + 1st is fine, maybe be small adds in that but some duck fans are unrealistic…. There may be small pieces in that proposal I just don’t care to argue about small pieces, I’m more concerned with big pieces.

Gibson has a Ntc, and his stats havnt been amazing…. Unfortunately that is going to hurt his value…. Some duck fans can’t deal with that because we watch him nightly and realize he is our best player…. And losing him for a lot less than you hope for is tough

I think you are in for a big shock. That contract is onerous, and one of the worst in the NHL. No on is giving you a prospect + 1st + something else, yet alone not even taking a bad contract back. Laughable. I think teams would have about as much interest in Gibson as they would Grubauer.

You would like Gibson to play at least 55 of the 89 games the Leafs will play next season.

At least you can bank on the Leafs going 7 games with or without Gibson.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

If the numbers (cap wise) works to bring Campbell back and add Holtby. If I'm Toronto, I'm going this way.

Cap is not an issue. The Leafs have 6 million to spend on a goalie before trading anyone. The Leafs have 8,695,146.5 before the 1 million in Cap increase next year.

They spend 3,695,146.5 on Engvall, Liljigren, and Sandin.

6 million on a goalie Campbell at 4 and Holtby at 2.

Then they have 3 forward positions to fill. Depending who is traded/bought out the amount of money left is 2.8 million up to 8.3 million to fill 2 forth line spots and one 3rd line spot.

Don't think thats the ask. Seems like the ask is pretty much 1st + Robertson + Mrazek



They quite easily can if they trade Muzzin. Problems will arise once Matthews contract is up though. So we can easily afford 2 years of Gibson, but the latter 3 gets difficult

Don't need to trade Muzzin to fit Gibson. Brodie,Muzzin, and Nylander all come due the same year as Matthews so there is money for Matthews.

 

[KevinRedkey]

I think you are in for a big shock. That contract is onerous, and one of the worst in the NHL. No on is giving you a prospect + 1st + something else, yet alone not even taking a bad contract back. Laughable. I think teams would have about as much interest in Gibson as they would Grubauer.


At least you can bank on the Leafs going 7 games with or without Gibson.

You think Gibson has one of the worst contracts in the NHL, and he holds no more value than Grubauer? or did I miss something here..?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No its not an overpay... i take gibson before nylander anytime to win a cup and its not even close

But its not what duck want

Yes it is an overpay when was the las time you saw a goalie return an 80 point forward? it doesn't happen

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I think you are in for a big shock. That contract is onerous, and one of the worst in the NHL. No on is giving you a prospect + 1st + something else, yet alone not even taking a bad contract back. Laughable. I think teams would have about as much interest in Gibson as they would Grubauer.


At least you can bank on the Leafs going 7 games with or without Gibson.

Tell me more

 

[thusk]

Yes it is an overpay when was the las time you saw a goalie return an 80 point forward? it doesn't happen

Luongo...

When the last time you saw an elite goalie with term get traded