Value of: John Gibson to the Leafs

[Hockey 4 Life]

I think a deal including sandin or liljegren over robertson could make sense for leafs too because like i said earlier, i dont know how leafs can play with 3 or 4 offensive minded dman in the same line up can be a good idea

Liljegren will be our best two way D by the start of the 24/25 season. We can't make a mistake like this again. Sandin has all the tools to be a 2 or 3 defenseman and if he can improve his top speed he could be a number 1. I see sandin in the Theodore mold of d and Liljegren as a future Devon toews. I'd trade Nylander before moving either D.

 

[thusk]

Liljegren will be our best two way D by the start of the 24/25 season. We can't make a mistake like this again. Sandin has all the tools to be a 2 or 3 defenseman and if he can improve his top speed he could be a number 1. I see sandin in the Theodore mold of d and Liljegren as a future Devon toews. I'd trade Nylander before moving either D.

Its best case scenario but exemple liljegren can become a kind of kulikov and never deliver expectation we waiting for.

Like best case for a robertson is he become as good as his brother.

But whatever if liljegren become a toews and sandin a topb2 3 dman, im still think toronto eill be better with gibson tha anyone of liljegren/sandin at the end.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Its best case scenario but exemple liljegren can become a kind of kulikov and never deliver expectation we waiting for.

Like best case for a robertson is he become as good as his brother.

But whatever if liljegren become a toews and sandin a topb2 3 dman, im still think toronto eill be better with gibson tha anyone of liljegren/sandin at the end.

I agree Gibson is probably our best option and we will have to give up a proper package that reflects that. We also have to be careful with our future on the blue line. All of sandin, Liljegren and Niemela have very good defensive games and physically Sandin and Liljegren will become more imposing. I'll have to wait until Niemela plays in the NHL before I can comment one way or the other.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

1st + Robertson + Mrazek just makes too much sense if we can trade Muzzin to someone for like a 3rd.

Giordano practically covers Muzzin, Sandin finally needs a full-time role. 5M cap space freed up can be used towards a good goalie.

Muzzin for a third? Lmfao. Muzzin is still a legit top four d man. I'm all for letting him heal over the summer and seeing where he is at. He's not 47 ffs. The price we paid for him was fair and I'm not ditching him for a third because he wobbled a bit. Like wow.

on to Gibson , I would do a first this year as the base and add a lower level prospect. I might do Robertson and another pick if we absolutely had to or if some retention is there. I think it's fair considering the risk involved. Robertson is going to be an player and where we are picking the ducks should be able to get another nhl player. I think the risks for both side are fair.

 

[AuraSphere]

Muzzin for a third? Lmfao. Muzzin is still a legit top four d man. I'm all for letting him heal over the summer and seeing where he is at. He's not 47 ffs. The price we paid for him was fair and I'm not ditching him for a third because he wobbled a bit. Like wow.

on to Gibson , I would do a first this year as the base and add a lower level prospect. I might do Robertson and another pick if we absolutely had to or if some retention is there. I think it's fair considering the risk involved. Robertson is going to be an player and where we are picking the ducks should be able to get another nhl player. I think the risks for both side are fair.

I couldn't care less what YOU would do. You're a bias leaf fan that values Muzzin more than others. He's being paid 5.6M for the next 2 years. No one is saying he's not a serviceable top 4 dman. But he's quite injury prone and comes with a high cap hit - and I don't see any contender willing to take that on. No rebuilding team will want to give away picks either.

It really comes down to us keeping him if we think he's worth his 5.6M or shipping him off for less. Given we need Sandin in and could use that extra 5M cap someplace else - it just makes sense whether YOU think so or not

 

[Zur En Arrh]

I couldn't care less what YOU would do. You're a bias leaf fan that values Muzzin more than others. He's being paid 5.6M for the next 2 years. No one is saying he's not a serviceable top 4 dman. But he's quite injury prone and comes with a high cap hit - and I don't see any contender willing to take that on. No rebuilding team will want to give away picks either.

It really comes down to us keeping him if we think he's worth his 5.6M or shipping him off for less. Given we need Sandin in and could use that extra 5M cap someplace else - it just makes sense whether YOU think so or not

and no one cares what YOU would do, lmfao @ You Muzzin stays. Maybe you can go? That works!! That works really well! Ignored!!

 

[thusk]

I agree Gibson is probably our best option and we will have to give up a proper package that reflects that. We also have to be careful with our future on the blue line. All of sandin, Liljegren and Niemela have very good defensive games and physically Sandin and Liljegren will become more imposing. I'll have to wait until Niemela plays in the NHL before I can comment one way or the other.

I dont talk about trading every one young d, if anaheim want a young dman for gibson... just lets go

What i see from liljegren/sandin level right now its a 5th/6th dman... and there's a chance than what we seeing right now of those player will be what we will see in 5 years. A mistake a lot of people doing is taking as granted than a young player will become better with time. Sometime its the case, sometime hes already reaching his maximal potential.

For me between sandin/liljegren and niemela, the young with highest potential of becoming a excellent 2 way dman is Niemela.

 

[AuraSphere]

and no one cares what YOU would do, lmfao @You. Muzzin stays. Maybe you can go? That works!! That works really well!

How cringe are you - it's my opinion, go flame someone else. No one in the league will value Muzzin as highly as you

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I dont talk about trading every one young d, if anaheim want a young dman for gibson... just lets go

What i see from liljegren/sandin level right now its a 5th/6th dman... and there's a chance than what we seeing right now of those player will be what we will see in 5 years. A mistake a lot of people doing is taking as granted than a young player will become better with time. Sometime its the case, sometime hes already reaching his maximal potential.

For me between sandin/liljegren and niemela, the young with highest potential of becoming a excellent 2 way dman is Niemela.

You could absolutely be right but I disagree. We have stud forwards but only Reilly as a high end d. We need to keep sandin, Liljegren, and Niemela. I think a deal like
2022 1st
Robertson
Villeneuve
Mrazek
Is more then a fair offer from the leafs and if the ducks want kerfoot added as well so be it. If not we move him to another team for a few 3rds.

 

[thusk]

You could absolutely be right but I disagree. We have stud forwards but only Reilly as a high end d. We need to keep sandin, Liljegren, and Niemela. I think a deal like
2022 1st
Robertson
Villeneuve
Mrazek
Is more then a fair offer from the leafs and if the ducks want kerfoot added as well so be it. If not we move him to another team for a few 3rds.

I think it will be hard for sandin in Toronto with rielly in front to get succes for the only reason than sandin need to play on rielly role to have an high succes. He need to start most of his shift in offensive zone, play alot on pp to use him at his best exactly like rielly and together it will be a disaster.

And outside of big 4 offensivly, they dont have a lot of scoring abilities... so i think for whats leafs need, leafs should keep robertson ovet sandin... not because hes more talented but because it whats leafs gonna need...

 

[Gliff]

You could absolutely be right but I disagree. We have stud forwards but only Reilly as a high end d. We need to keep sandin, Liljegren, and Niemela. I think a deal like
2022 1st
Robertson
Villeneuve
Mrazek
Is more then a fair offer from the leafs and if the ducks want kerfoot added as well so be it. If not we move him to another team for a few 3rds.

How do you think this is fair?
Please break it down for me.

Gibon for Robertson + Villeneuve?
1st to take Mrazek?

The Ducks get bent hard.

 

[tomd]

I dont talk about trading every one young d, if anaheim want a young dman for gibson... just lets go

What i see from liljegren/sandin level right now its a 5th/6th dman... and there's a chance than what we seeing right now of those player will be what we will see in 5 years. A mistake a lot of people doing is taking as granted than a young player will become better with time. Sometime its the case, sometime hes already reaching his maximal potential.

For me between sandin/liljegren and niemela, the young with highest potential of becoming a excellent 2 way dman is Niemela.

As a Ducks follower I suspect that none of the Toronto D prospects you mentioned would be very highly regarded by Verbeek. It's not that they aren't going to be good one day but rather that they are all on the small side and the Ducks already have and undersized future core of Drysdale and Zellweger. I would think the focus is on the 22 and/or 23 1sts along with Knies and Robertson. Not all of them obviously but some combination. I also believe the Ducks are in a position to help out Toronto's cap situation by taking on all of Mrazek, Kerfoot, and Holl. Obviously the more they take on the higher the price goes.

Just my $0.02.

 

[BlueBaron]

Sandin/liljegren could be better target too. I really love those kids but in long term, it will be pretty hard to keep sandin, liljegren and morgan rielly on the same line up... their game are too similar. You can add niemela too... soon or late one of sandin or liljegren will need to leave toronto... Maybe its time to do it right now to get a huge missing piece.



ok yes muzzin doesnt make any sense for ducks. Like i said before in this message, liljegren and sandin are better target defensive side.

Funny you say that. My hope is they turn into versions of Gio and Brodie.

 

[Eggtimer]

No one wants Kerfoot and Robertson is not as valuable as leaf fans think.
The amount of offers these two are in is insane.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

As a Ducks follower I suspect that none of the Toronto D prospects you mentioned you be very highly regarded by Verbeek. It's not that they aren't going to be good one day but rather that they are all on the small side and the Ducks already have and undersized future core of Drysdale and Zellweger. I would think the focus is on the 22 and/or 23 1sts along with Knies and Robertson. Not all of them obviously but some combination. I also believe the Ducks are in a position to help out Toronto's cap situation by taking on all of Mrazek, Kerfoot, and Holl. Obviously the more they take on the higher the price goes.

Just my $0.02.

Many Toronto fans feel like taking those players on would be to offset the major risk that is known as John Gibson. It's quite comical, because they want him, yet they go on to talk about how bad he is and how much of a risk he is.

(This part below is not directed at you, but to all of the Leafs fans who think the Ducks should account for the risk that Toronto would be taking on by gracefully relieving the Ducks of their starting netminder)

The part that's failed to be recognized by those select Toronto fans is that as of this point in time, there hasn't been a trade demand and the Ducks haven't declared that they need to dump him. Recognizing those two points, it shouldn't matter one bit to the Ducks, how much of a risk it is for an acquiring team. That's not the Ducks' problem. They can just as easily keep their starting goalie who will still be able to be a part of their team once the rebuild is complete. Why would the Ducks provide any type of compensation/sacrifice assets for a player they don't need to trade away? It's perplexing how that's just being ignored. "Give us your sh*tty player that could be a tremendous anchor for us (because in actuality we really think he's a good goalie and will be great on our team), and we'll give you a package that reflects his downfalls."

 

[nergish]

I don't know that Gibson is the answer to the all of the Leafs' problems, but they should probably do it. Just bite bullet and pay the price.

Failing to get past the first-round isn't just embarrassing, it's wasting prime Auston Matthews.

Gibson is likely still a top 10-15 goalie in this league, that would absolutely help. Definitely due for a change of scenery. But he's the kind of player that has an even higher ceiling imo, and I could see him looking pretty dominant in the crease for Toronto if everything goes right.

 

[AcerComputer]

What is ANA adding for someone to take that contract for what is now a 904% goalie. Gotta start with a 1st I imagine, and then take back some salary in Mrazek.

 

[AcerComputer]

I don't know that Gibson is the answer to the all of the Leafs' problems, but they should probably do it. Just bite bullet and pay the price.

Failing to get past the first-round isn't just embarrassing, it's wasting prime Auston Matthews.

Gibson is likely still a top 10 goalie in this league, that would absolutely help. Definitely due for a change of scenery. But he's the kind of player that has an even higher ceiling imo, and I could see him looking pretty dominant in the crease for Toronto if everything goes right.

No one has any cap space, who is doing ANA a favour to take on that contract? lol. Leafs issues this year and last were not goaltending. The last two years, Cambell has been a far better goalie, and if we re-sign him it will be less than Gibson onerous cap hit remaining of $6.4M x 5 years.

 

[thusk]

No one has any cap space, who is doing ANA a favour to take on that contract? lol. Leafs issues this year and last were not goaltending. It's a Fwd imbalance. Once Matthews gets shutdown we're relying on the other lines to pickup the slack, because we are missing several goals from Matthews, which would have been the difference in the series. Even on the PP, it was too predictable. Better off with Nylander and Marner as shooters, and hide Matthews on the 2 PP unit and leave Marner on for the full 2 min.

Game # 6 montreal when the game was on the line during OT... Price wqs amaizing and Campbell beat by a shot unscreen from blueline...

Game #7 wgere 1st goal was very important, awful goal allowed against gallagher

Game #6 against tampa
Campbell had a chance to close it, he didnt.

Ot vasilevskiy was amaizing and campbell didnt control a long shot a gave a juicy rebound to point

Game #7 can control his rebound and start with an other weak goal. Leafs came back, campbell pretty slow yonfollow paul and get caught late and gave the lead back right after leafs came back and needed their goalie.

When toronto needed his goalie to be at his best, he failed every time so yes its a concern

 

[seanlinden]

Is there any precedent for a team taking back salary for that duration? I don't see it happening here.

I think it's a good fit for both teams and find it a fun exersize to try to make it work, but I think the path to getting there involves removing Mrazek -- they only need an extra $2M after that. They'll find someone who wants to play backup for cheap.

In other words, I think the bigger issue is that TOR doesn't have a whole lot to give up in a trade.

Leafs did it with Kessel... that deal did yield Kasperi Kapanen (highly regarded young prospect) and a 1st round pick (with the Leafs giving up some lesser assets as well in the deal.

Personally, I don't think the "challenge" with Gibson is whether he makes $6.4m or $5.0m. At the end of the day, that's #1 goalie money... and you can only have one #1 goalie -- it's not like a skater where you can turn a star on one team into depth on another.

The challenge is -- he's locked into being paid #1 goalie money for the next 5 years, but the last 3 has been very, very mediocre.

I think there's a bunch of teams (not good ones) that would happily take him on for the next 5 years at his full hit, simply to stabilize their goaltending with behind a likely young core, which gives him a really stable "floor" of positive value. However, given how mediocre he's been for the last few years, I'm not so sure there's a contending /good team that views him as the best way to spend $5-6m with term.

Look at the Freddy Andersen deal... and that was Carolina giving up nothing for him. Bad teams obviously wouldn't have access to a goalie contract like that, but at the same time, bad teams also generally do not want to give up a haul of futures.

 

[Gliff]

What is ANA adding for someone to take that contract for what is now a 904% goalie. Gotta start with a 1st I imagine, and then take back some salary in Mrazek.

I guess the Ducks are stuck with Gibson then. Sounds good.

 

[ITM]

but it's not just about game 7.

Jack couldn't give them 2 consecutive good games

he was garbage in game 2 and 4 and OK at best in game 6he was good in game 7 but hge lost.

Now it is true that Vasi also never had 2 good games in a row but it's different for Vasi because he has back to back cups, he has a Vezina he could retire now and be a lock for the hall of fame.

Vasi is a closer

Jack isn't when he had a chance to closein game 6 he let in 4 on 34 shots.

Vasi gets it done when he has to

Jack doesn't

Generalizations and misrepresentations.

The third goal to tie for Tampa was that much talked about 5 on 3. We don't know what Tampa would have done had the 5 on 3 not been called. We do know Tampa couldn't score after it.

Jack Campbell has never been the problem the Leafs failed to push to the second round as the Leafs playoffs goalie.

 

[AcerComputer]

I guess the Ducks are stuck with Gibson then. Sounds good.

Maybe FLA would be interested in a for Trade for Gibson with Bobrovksy going back the other way.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

With Gibson stats being so bad there's absolutely no reason a playoff team should pay what is expected for a number one goalie with mediocre back up numbers. Ducks fans seem to love him so keep him and everyone is happy.

 

[AcerComputer]

Leafs did it with Kessel... that deal did yield Kasperi Kapanen (highly regarded young prospect) and a 1st round pick (with the Leafs giving up some lesser assets as well in the deal.

Personally, I don't think the "challenge" with Gibson is whether he makes $6.4m or $5.0m. At the end of the day, that's #1 goalie money... and you can only have one #1 goalie -- it's not like a skater where you can turn a star on one team into depth on another.

The challenge is -- he's locked into being paid #1 goalie money for the next 5 years, but the last 3 has been very, very mediocre.

I think there's a bunch of teams (not good ones) that would happily take him on for the next 5 years at his full hit, simply to stabilize their goaltending with behind a likely young core, which gives him a really stable "floor" of positive value. However, given how mediocre he's been for the last few years, I'm not so sure there's a contending /good team that views him as the best way to spend $5-6m with term.

Look at the Freddy Andersen deal... and that was Carolina giving up nothing for him. Bad teams obviously wouldn't have access to a goalie contract like that, but at the same time, bad teams also generally do not want to give up a haul of futures.

And Gibson wouldn't have let in any softies I am sure. He would have gone from a 904% regular season goalie to finding his game in the playoffs I am sure. If we can't sign Kuemper or Cambell for free, I honestly rather use that cap space on a forward, and start Kallgren.