Value of: John Gibson to the Leafs

[lwvs84]

One question I have is this... Are the Ducks looking to move Gibson or are they only looking to move him if they get an offer they can't refuse? That part is important. Posters and fans can dump on Gibson's numbers all they want but the Ducks don't have to trade Gibson. It's a market leverage cause so many teams are looking for goalie upgrades.... some fans will completely ignore this

I think Muzzin still has a lot of game left. He has more value than what you will see on HF boards. Are the Ducks interested in taking on Muzzin during their mini rebuild? Not sure. However, Mrazek is a problem with his cap hit and term left. I don't see many teams considering him a solution and most if not all, consider him a problem contract and will require assets put on top of him to take him on.

In any deal the Leafs make, they will be looking to unload salary. That is a big problem cause the team taking them on and giving the better piece will ask for futures on top. Question is how deep can the Leafs go in futures and do they really think Gibson is a solution?

Ducks would be selling high with Gibson now as he is heading into his age 29 season. Leafs just let Anderson walk due to injury issues from age 30-31. Gibson has a lot of mileage as well. If there were better options, the Leafs would say no thanks. But there are not so they are looking

I think it's somewhere in the middle. They aren't trying to actively get rid of him but it's also not going to take a huge overpay (offer they can't refuse) to get him. I think NHL GM's/scouts will actually watch the tape and not just look at stats to determine his value, but will use the lack of stats in negotiations. He won't get the massive haul he would have a few years ago, but he'll get more than what a goalie with his stats the last few years would go for. I mean, how much can you expect when Shattenkirk is your #1 RHD?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think the likeliness of a Gibson trade depends on how badly he wants out. We have Stolarz under contract and he has looked good as a backup, and we have Dostal in AHL who is probably a year away. If Gibson makes it clear he wants to go to a winning team, I think we will oblige this Summer.

You will oblige as long as you get the deal you think it fair. Otherwise, take the best offer now this summer might mean you take less than what you think you get today.

Shopping players does have leverage issues. If you are dead set on unloading him this summer, other GM's will sense it and offer less. Leverage game back and forth

 

[BlueBaron]

Gibson has made it clear that he doesn’t want to be part of a rebuild. Many fans are assuming that means he would like to be traded, although that has not been confirmed.

I understand that Muzzin is a solid player, but what kind of value does he have to a rebuilding team where he will be a UFA by the time they are good again? There’s a reason he’s being talked about to offset salary in a deal like this: because his contract is inconvenient to the Leafs. So why should the Ducks do them a favor? Muzzin just doesn’t do as much for the Ducks as he would for another team.

The Ducks are absolutely willing to take on salary to make a deal work, but they aren’t going to do it unless they get something out of it.


The way you’re talking about him, I don’t understand why you are so willing to get rid of him. I would gladly take the 2nd+3rd instead of Muzzin so you can keep him.

I'm sure our Management is very conflicted about it. I also think we are so pick poor a buyout and 1.4 mil Cap hit is looking like the attractive option. We also may be able to LITR him because he probably earns more than a buyout and league min until his next breakdown. With our money we have options. We could get some injured guys to inflate our cap. It's why I'm leery of these high prices.

 

[All Mighty]

You will oblige as long as you get the deal you think it fair. Otherwise, take the best offer now this summer might mean you take less than what you think you get today.

Shopping players does have leverage issues. If you are dead set on unloading him this summer, other GM's will sense it and offer less. Leverage game back and forth

Ya I guess it will depend on how many teams are in the market for a starter. Off the top of my head I can think of Toronto, Edmonton, Chicago, New Jersey, Washington, and maybe Colorado depending on Kuemper. If they will trade Gibson, it would make sense to do it before free agency when those vacancies are less likely to be filled.

 

[keglu]

How do you want a goalie in this world could look good in that kind of team?

His backup stats look pretty good behind same team.

 

[darkwingduck]

His backup stats look pretty good behind same team.

His backup also played way way easier competition.

 

[keglu]

His backup also played way way easier competition.

So like most backups around the league?
And still they usually dont have better stats.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Its like you playing in a team like

Bunting-kerfoot-Nylander
Mikheyev-Spezza- kase
Robertson-kampf-engval
Seney-steeves-anderson

Muzzin-brodie
Niemela-lyubushkin
Sandin-dalhstrom

And you telling me the goalie didnt make the job.... How do you want a goalie in this world could look good in that kind of team? Its more amaizing than gibson was able to keep a saves % at 0.922% until february

I'm just stating a fact. I believe he would rebound on the leafs so you don't have to convince me, but the package given for Gibson must in some way reflect the risk that his contract poses to the acquiring team if he doesn't. Wether that's cap back in the deal, or a bad contract for a few years. Either way it must be reflected.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Gibsons numbers are not elite the last three years. No one is going to pay the price of an elite goalie for him.

No one is asking for elite price for gibson, read the thread

 

[Jozay]

No one is asking for elite price for gibson, read the thread

Nah

 

[thusk]

I'm just stating a fact. I believe he would rebound on the leafs so you don't have to convince me, but the package given for Gibson must in some way reflect the risk that his contract poses to the acquiring team if he doesn't. Wether that's cap back in the deal, or a bad contract for a few years. Either way it must be reflected.

In every trade with every player you got a risk...

Sure mrazek need to be in this trade because leafs can pay over 10M for 2 goalie and i do t think it will be a big case for anaheim because they eill need goalie and not sure goalie will fight to play in anaheim. For me Gibson can be the missing piece so if i had to pay it a little more, i still do it... foward is fine, their upgrading their d last couple of season and now they need to find the solution in front of the net and i do t think its campbell. Hes fine but hes not the guy who can elevate his game at the right time.

What were his stats if you isolate the second half of the season?

Do Ducks fans realize that starting goaltenders have to play a full season, and THEN the playoffs too?

Ps im not a ducks fan but a leafs fan

He didnt get good stats yep for sure but if you were watching some game of ducks in january, you could know at this time it will happen... not because gibson was not good, he was phenomenal but because ducks was just playing so bad in front. Thats finishing against a series of 4 game against toronto, montreal, ottawa and detroit 3 of 4 worst team in the NHL and was outshoot 157 to 79 , gibson played 3 of those 5 game and allowed only 5 regular game goal + they lost manson with a defensive already pretty thin. A month later lindohlm traded. They had to play with shattenkirk who always suck in entire career like a tyson barrie defensivly and a talented rookie but AHL caliber to max 6th-7th dman in drysdale.

Its like playing with
rielly-brodie
Sandin-niemela
Marincin-Biega

And when lindholn was traded
Rielly-sandin
Marincin-niemela
Dahlstrom- Biega

How much value do you really give about stats played in front of that kind of d?

I'm just stating a fact. I believe he would rebound on the leafs so you don't have to convince me, but the package given for Gibson must in some way reflect the risk that his contract poses to the acquiring team if he doesn't. Wether that's cap back in the deal, or a bad contract for a few years. Either way it must be reflected.

In every trade with every player you got a risk...

Sure mrazek need to be in this trade because leafs can pay over 10M for 2 goalie and i do t think it will be a big case for anaheim because they eill need goalie and not sure goalie will fight to play in anaheim. For me Gibson can be the missing piece so if i had to pay it a little more, i still do it... foward is fine, their upgrading their d last couple of season and now they need to find the solution in front of the net and i do t think its campbell. Campbell is fine but hes not the guy who can elevate his game at the right time, gibson yes.

What were his stats if you isolate the second half of the season?

Do Ducks fans realize that starting goaltenders have to play a full season, and THEN the playoffs too?

Ps im not a ducks fan but a leafs fan

He didnt get good stats yep for sure but if you were watching some game of ducks in january, you could know at this time it will happen... not because gibson was not good, he was phenomenal but because ducks was just playing so bad in front. Thats finishing against a series of 4 game against toronto, montreal, ottawa and detroit 3 of 4 worst team in the NHL and was outshoot 157 to 79 , gibson played 3 of those 5 game and allowed only 5 regular game goal + they lost manson with a defensive already pretty thin. A month later lindohlm traded. They had to play with shattenkirk who always suck in entire career like a tyson barrie defensivly and a talented rookie but AHL caliber to max 6th-7th dman in drysdale.

Its like playing with
rielly-brodie
Sandin-niemela
Marincin-Biega

And when lindholn was traded
Rielly-sandin
Marincin-niemela
Dahlstrom- Biega

How much value do you really give about stats played in front of that kind of d?

 

[mouser]

Well if we take my recent poll as an indicator the average cost predicted was a 2nd+3rd to move Mrazek. So if you assume neutral value on him (which I don't) we are still not at getting any of our 3 shiny toys.

I guess we need to agree on Muzzin's value. Hard to believe a top 4 d with 2 cup rings, a boat load of intangibles and days removed from a strong playoffs has 0 value. Only on HF is that concept possible. The half season would mean more if he didn't bounce back completely.

The fact is our organization loves him so Robertson and a 1rst in 23 seems like the most plausible scenario. I have a strong feeling we keep Jake and flip him to the right to play with Sandin. We do have Kerfoot who is 750k in real cash this year and Holl to play with to but simple is always easier.

I stand at Robertson and a 23 1rst. Probably the best we can do. Even that depends on striking out on Kuemper

Muzzin has value to some teams, and little to no value for other teams. I would put Anaheim in the later category.

 

[BlueBaron]

Muzzin has value to some teams, and little to no value for other teams. I would put Anaheim in the later category.

Maybe so. I'm not stressing it. I think he stays. Gio covers his risk.

 

[deprw]

Muzzin has value to some teams, and little to no value for other teams. I would put Anaheim in the later category.

I think only viable option for Muzzin is LA. He fits in their timeline at the moment nicely and he played in there. Could bring experience to their rebuild. Though it depends if he wants to move at all, if not there isn't options.

Interesting take from this thread is that Gibson who played poorly for three years still has lots of trade value. Mrazek that was injured one year has negative value. I don't see Mrazek's situation as bad as others. Don't need 1st rounder to get rid of him. He has solid stats from before and that three year deal was pretty accurate for him. Can easily bounce back and I think there will be teams that see him as option.

 

[thusk]

I think only viable option for Muzzin is LA. He fits in their timeline at the moment nicely and he played in there. Could bring experience to their rebuild. Though it depends if he wants to move at all, if not there isn't options.

Interesting take from this thread is that Gibson who played poorly for three years still has lots of trade value. Mrazek that was injured one year has negative value. I don't see Mrazek's situation as bad as others. Don't need 1st rounder to get rid of him. He has solid stats from before and that three year deal was pretty accurate for him. Can easily bounce back and I think there will be teams that see him as option.

I dont think people understand how important muzzin is for toronto when healthy.

Last season is a good exemple. Toronto was top 5 defensivly in the NHL at jan 15, campbell % was at 0.932... Muzzin get injured, leafs fall out of top 15 defensivly and campbell % drop at like 0.860 to 0.880%.

I know toronto resign gio but he will be at 39, you cant expect it will be your plan A

 

[81Leafs50]

Campbell was not the problem, stop it.

Campbell vs TBL .853 .688 .914 .886

You are incorrect sir.

Gibson with 6 years remaining on his deal will cost Nylander ++ if they are taking on Mrazek. I for one am ok with that. I love Nylander but goaltending is so very important to winning.

 

[Gliff]

Campbell vs TBL .853 .688 .914 .886

You are incorrect sir.

Gibson with 6 years remaining on his deal will cost Nylander ++ if they are taking on Mrazek. I for one am ok with that. I love Nylander but goaltending is so very important to winning.

I wouldn't say he would cost Nylander. I'm sure the Ducks are okay with futures.

 

[mydnyte]

Campbell vs TBL .853 .688 .914 .886

You are incorrect sir.

Gibson with 6 years remaining on his deal will cost Nylander ++ if they are taking on Mrazek. I for one am ok with that. I love Nylander but goaltending is so very important to winning.

yet he gave up one less goal than Vas did in the series, and they have the same sv% overall ...Leafs still need to learn how to win tough.
TB blocked more shots than they took the last 2 games. (the ref part doesnt matter if the leafs put in a few extra goals)
...most of the good looks got blocked, and then they still gave up too many quality looks (and Holl is bad)

 

[81Leafs50]

yet he gave up one less goal than Vas did in the series, and they have the same sv% overall ...Leafs still need to learn how to win tough.
TB blocked more shots than they took the last 2 games. (the ref part doesnt matter if the leafs put in a few extra goals)
...most of the good looks got blocked, and then they still gave up too many quality looks (and Holl is bad)

if thats how you want to see, thats fine. ANY other goalie with stats like this in the playoffs would be crucified. Freddy had much better stats (like 3 .940 games vs WSH) and he was labeled as a guy who just could not get it done. WELL, Campbell was up 3-1 on MTL and 3-2 on TBL and he could not STEAL a game.

 

[BlueBaron]

if thats how you want to see, thats fine. ANY other goalie with stats like this in the playoffs would be crucified. Freddy had much better stats (like 3 .940 games vs WSH) and he was labeled as a guy who just could not get it done. WELL, Campbell was up 3-1 on MTL and 3-2 on TBL and he could not STEAL a game.

No doubt in my mind Freddy is a better goalie than Campbell.

 

[mydnyte]

if thats how you want to see, thats fine. ANY other goalie with stats like this in the playoffs would be crucified. Freddy had much better stats (like 3 .940 games vs WSH) and he was labeled as a guy who just could not get it done. WELL, Campbell was up 3-1 on MTL and 3-2 on TBL and he could not STEAL a game.

its as simple as this, in games 6 and 7 he didnt let in a 'weak' goal, Tampa just sacrificed more in front of the net, and TB doesnt have a defender as weak as Holl protecting the front of the net (his fault on the OT winner)
...like vs MTL, we just didnt score, and then when we did, it got called back on a BS penalty call. (he did let in one costly stinker to Gallagher vs MTL, but 3 kicks at the can, and cant outscore a team that struggles to score, we deserved the loss)

Kampf beat Vasy twice from distance, and almost had a 3rd, and we can all agree, he's not a typical offensive threat.
we made Vasy look ordinary, he didnt beat us, Tampa's dedication/body sacrifice in front of him did.

 

[quackquackquack]

Haven't checked in on Gibson to the Leafs in a while...are we still arguing over which scraps and trash to go Anaheim for Gibson?

 

[DavidBL]

I wouldn't say he would cost Nylander. I'm sure the Ducks are okay with futures.

A lot of their fans are anyway. Can't say I'm a fan of more futures.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Haven't checked in on Gibson to the Leafs in a while...are we still arguing over which scraps and trash to go Anaheim for Gibson?

There's no guarantee Gibson bounces back on a better team. If he does then the acquiring team has a great goalie, if he doesn't they have a terrible cap dump for the next 5 years at 6.4 million.

 

[DavidBL]

There's no guarantee Gibson bounces back on a better team. If he does then the acquiring team has a great goalie, if he doesn't they have a terrible cap dump for the next 5 years at 6.4 million.

So the Ducks keep him and move on. Imo if the Ducks can't fill a real need by moving him there isn't a point. We risk turning into one of the teams that lacks goaltending. People are putting far too much faith is Stolarz and Dostal IMO.