Value of: John Gibson to the Leafs

[BlueBaron]

How many 3 or 4th winger ( in points) won conne smyth last 20 years? 1 and his name was Justin Williams

How many starting goalie won it? 5

The other was NHL superstar like crosby, ovy, kll


Can you name me one good dman in anaheim outside of fowler/Manson and Lindholm?

With Manson/Lindholm who missing half of ducks game last 3 season.

Its like put nylander playing with abruzzesse and steeves without pp time with matthews and marner all season, do you think he reach 80 points ? The answer is an easy no, he will maybe reach 50 points... thats it . So why it should be different for a goalie playing in front of an AHL d?!?!?!

So if I have you right Gibson has a better chance than Nylander to win the Smythe of we won the cup with both.

I agree. Much better chance.

Good talk.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

That doesn't mean the Ducks are required to bend over backwards for him and bend over forward for the Leafs.

It also doesn't mean the leafs should overpay for a goalie whose stats have been really bad the past 3 years.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Would want Nylander, 1st round pick, and a Top prospect.

It not can have fun continuing to get bounced in the 1st round. Gibby is much better than his numbers indicate. He has no help in front of him.

Sorry I’m in a mood today but in all seriousness the Ducks are not gonna let him go for nothing. It’s a major move for Anaheim.

Go home your drunk lol. Gibson has back up numbers and is rumored to want out if the ducks continue to rebuild and carries a 6.4 mill cap hit for 5 years. Keep him for that price and watch those numbers decline as he gets more and more frustrated.

 

[Leonardo87]

Go home your drunk lol. Gibson has back up numbers and is rumored to want out if the ducks continue to rebuild and carries a 6.4 mill cap hit for 5 years. Keep him for that price and watch those numbers decline as he gets more and more frustrated.

I’m hung over not drunk. Dammit! Lol

 

[Magic Man]

And what are you offering in return for the Ducks taking Mrazek and retaining on Gibson for 5 years lol.

I don't see Toronto offering anywhere near enough to make the Ducks eat 15 mil+ in salary. Not to mention, the Ducks could keep Gibson and be totally happy with that.

What discount are the Leafs getting for taking on a .904 goaltender for the last 3 years with a 6.4M cap hit? Losing Mrazek sounds nice for free, like they did in Arizona with Ritchie. Though he really only had a poor 20 game stretch in a new environment. I don't see why Anaheim can't use him for a year and a half and then trade him at the deadline. The options out there aren't that great and rebuilders often have to overpay to attract talent. I think he lines up pretty well for Anaheim.

Phil Kessel was traded to the Penguins and the Leafs had to retain 1.2M for like 6-7 years, they won the cup his first two seasons and he followed that up by having 92 and 82 point seasons. There was never a chance that trade didn't work out for Pittsburgh from the jump given they had Sid and Malkin up front. But, all the Leafs got back was a 1st, 3rd, Kapanen and Harrington. They also had to take on a mild dump of Nick Spaling, while giving back a 2nd.

Phil didn't have 3 poor seasons in a row before he was traded and they still had to retain long term, take back a dump and give them back an asset. If Anaheim doesn't want to move Gibson they don't have to come to the table and negotiate, but if they actually want to facilitate a deal and gain youth for him, before he loses his shine, they will probably have to take a hit somewhere to get it done, given you're expecting a team to take on all the risk without acknowledging that his play for his pay the past few years hasn't been great, it doesn't sound like a team that wants to trade very much.

 

[thusk]

So if I have you right Gibson has a better chance than Nylander to win the Smythe of we won the cup with both.

I agree. Much better chance.

Good talk.

Im Just goalie having much more impact than a 4th foward to win a cup

Your goalie allowed 2 weak goal he should not, you need from your foward to score like 3 goal to have a bigger impact

 

[lwvs84]

Go home your drunk lol. Gibson has back up numbers and is rumored to want out if the ducks continue to rebuild and carries a 6.4 mill cap hit for 5 years. Keep him for that price and watch those numbers decline as he gets more and more frustrated.

Eakins is a goalie killer. He's had 3 starting goalies as a head coach, every one of them saw a huge decline in numbers under him. One rebounded and had great numbers after, one got better but was out of the league a year later, the other is Gibson. Perhaps more than the talent around him, the problem is the defensive system.

 

[AcerComputer]

Ducks don't need to deal with Leafs either to solve Leaf's goaltending issues. That's not their concern. That's Dubas's problem alone to solve.

I don't know why some Leaf fans have a hard-on for Gibson, maybe because ANA used our draft pick to get him...either way, there are literally cheaper and better options in FA that will be less Cap Space. I don't see any reason why TOR would help ANA get out of that contract.

 

[Gliff]

It also doesn't mean the leafs should overpay for a goalie whose stats have been really bad the past 3 years.

Ducks fans didn't make this thread lol.

What discount are the Leafs getting for taking on a .904 goaltender for the last 3 years with a 6.4M cap hit? Losing Mrazek sounds nice for free, like they did in Arizona with Ritchie. Though he really only had a poor 20 game stretch in a new environment. I don't see why Anaheim can't use him for a year and a half and then trade him at the deadline. The options out there aren't that great and rebuilders often have to overpay to attract talent. I think he lines up pretty well for Anaheim.

Phil Kessel was traded to the Penguins and the Leafs had to retain 1.2M for like 6-7 years, they won the cup his first two seasons and he followed that up by having 92 and 82 point seasons. There was never a chance that trade didn't work out for Pittsburgh from the jump given they had Sid and Malkin up front. But, all the Leafs got back was a 1st, 3rd, Kapanen and Harrington. They also had to take on a mild dump of Nick Spaling, while giving back a 2nd.

Phil didn't have 3 poor seasons in a row before he was traded and they still had to retain long term, take back a dump and give them back an asset. If Anaheim doesn't want to move Gibson they don't have to come to the table and negotiate, but if they actually want to facilitate a deal and gain youth for him, before he loses his shine, they will probably have to take a hit somewhere to get it done, given you're expecting a team to take on all the risk without acknowledging that his play for his pay the past few years hasn't been great, it doesn't sound like a team that wants to trade very much.

There is a reason the ask is a 1st + good prospect instead of him being completely untouchable.
If you think he is a .904 goalie then why do you want him?

Leafs fans want Gibson.
Anaheim fans want a decent return.
Leafs fans tell Anaheim fans how bad Gibson is.
?????

 

[Big Muddy]

I don't know why some Leaf fans have a hard-on for Gibson, maybe because ANA used our draft pick to get him...either way, there are literally cheaper and better options in FA that will be less Cap Space. I don't see any reason why TOR would help ANA get out of that contract.

No worries.

I wouldn't worry about crazy over inflated counter proposals btw. You are always going to be a few of them on HF, but you take that with a grain of salt.

The thread was started by a Leaf fan, and it seems a lot of Leaf fans are making the "value statements". Kind of tells me that the Leaf fans are more worried about the situation. Carry on the facade, but you're not fooling anyone.

So, good luck finding the better goalie for low cost then.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

I don't know why some Leaf fans have a hard-on for Gibson, maybe because ANA used our draft pick to get him...either way, there are literally cheaper and better options in FA that will be less Cap Space. I don't see any reason why TOR would help ANA get out of that contract.

Such as?

 

[AcerComputer]

No worries.

I wouldn't worry about crazy over inflated counter proposals btw. You are always going to be a few of them on HF, but you take that with a grain of salt.

The thread was started by a Leaf fan, and it seems a lot of Leaf fans are making the "value statements". Kind of tells me that the Leaf fans are more worried about the situation. Carry on the facade, but you're not fooling anyone.

So, good luck finding the better goalie for low cost then.

What Facade? I don't know what these Leafs fans are smoking. The same fans who complain we pay 4 players $40M and have no cap space. Gibson has not been a good goalie for several years. I could see a trade where ANA takes on Mrazek and we throw in a 2nd round pick. But otherwise there is not much meat on the bone here for a trade when we have limited Cap Space and few draft picks..

 

[seanlinden]

IF you believe Gibson can be top 5 in the NHL in net again, it's absolutely worth it to trade away non-roster assets and have him over Campbell.

If you believe he's going to be a middle of the pack starter it's not.

Absolutely... which is back to my original post in this thread...

If a GM REALLY believes in Gibson, and wants to take a leap of faith that he's an $8-9m goalie being paid $6.4m, then sure. But that is a fairly substantial leap of faith to take given what he's done over the past 3 years... and the problem with taking that leap of faith is that if you're wrong, it's going to be a very difficult contract to move because he's still going to have 3-4 years left on his deal, and be 4-5 years removed from being a good goalie.

 

[Big Muddy]

What Facade? I don't know what these Leafs fans are smoking. The same fans who complain we pay 4 players $40M and have no cap space. Gibson has not been a good goalie for several years. I could see a trade where ANA takes on Mrazek and we throw in a 2nd round pick. But otherwise there is not much meat on the bone here for a trade when we have limited Cap Space and few draft picks..

OK, well its always hard to know each individual poster and their motives. So, having said that, its really other Leaf fans/posters that my comments were more directed at.

 

[AcerComputer]

Such as?

Maybe start with our own Goalie.

 

[BlueBaron]

Im Just goalie having much more impact than a 4th foward to win a cup

Your goalie allowed 2 weak goal he should not, you need from your foward to score like 3 goal to have a bigger impact

I certainly think goaltending is important. My valuations are based on the realities of the NHL
Goalies don't usually yield big returns. First line forwards do. The names don't even matter.

Can anyone think of a major goalie haul since Roy?

I promise you not many will be above a first and a prospect.

Maybe Luongo? Bob?

 

[thusk]

I certainly think goaltending is important. My valuations are based on the realities of the NHL
Goalies don't usually yield big returns. First line forwards do. The names don't even matter.

Can anyone think of a major goalie haul since Roy?

I promise you not many will be above a first and a prospect.

Maybe Luongo? Bob?

1- trading nylander is more about creating cap space because i dont think nylander is as important to toronto than some leafs fan think.

2- When was the last time leafs had a difference maker on net? It was ed belfour in 2004 and curtis joseph before... last time leafs won a serie in playoff= last time they had a difference maker in net...

If your goalie suck, hope your opponent goalie will suck too because it will be the only way to win.

If youre goalie is just fine, hope opponent goalie is not unbelievable because you will lost

If your goalie is unbelievable,you are in very good position to win.

I know in history, goalie didnt bring a lot more than a 1st but when was the last time you see an top 10 goalie with term being available. Its maybe the best goalie leafs will be able to find for the next 5 or 6 years.

Colorado paid a 1st and timmins for kuemper with only 1 years remaining. They understood how important it a goalie for a deep playoff run.

 

[seanlinden]

1- trading nylander is more about creating cap space because i dont think nylander is as important to toronto than some leafs fan think.

2- When was the last time leafs had a difference maker on net? It was ed belfour in 2004 and curtis joseph before... last time leafs won a serie in playoff= last time they had a difference maker in net...

If your goalie suck, hope your opponent goalie will suck too because it will be the only way to win.

If youre goalie is just fine, hope opponent goalie is not unbelievable because you will lost

If your goalie is unbelievable,you are in very good position to win.

I know in history, goalie didnt bring a lot more than a 1st but when was the last time you see an top 10 goalie with term being available. Its maybe the best goalie leafs will be able to find for the next 5 or 6 years.

Colorado paid a 1st and timmins for kuemper with only 1 years remaining. They understood how important it a goalie for a deep playoff run.

Yes they did... but they also got him at $3.5m with no long term commitment.

That $6.4m commitment to Gibson could be a great thing if he can be a .920 goalie like he was.... but it could also be a really bad thing if he remains a low .900 goalie on a new team.

 

[shortfuze]

No one wants Kerfoot and Robertson is not as valuable as leaf fans think.
The amount of offers these two are in is insane.

Such a silly comment. Why doesn’t anyone want kerfoot?

 

[thusk]

Yes they did... but they also got him at $3.5m with no long term commitment.

That $6.4m commitment to Gibson could be a great thing if he can be a .920 goalie like he was.... but it could also be a really bad thing if he remains a low .900 goalie on a new team.

You focusing too much on his stats.

I will give you an exemple, put nylander with simmonds and clifford without any pp time with matthews and marner, do he keep the same stats? No im not sure if he reaching 60.. Its the same thing with goalie

Put a goalie with one of worst d in NHL do you think they can have the same stats than a complete defensive group?

Anaheim had 3 good NHL dman and 3 bad... of 3 good, 2 of them missed half of ducks games, its sure that will affect a goalie but that not making him a worst player.

 

[Eggtimer]

Such a silly comment. Why doesn’t anyone want kerfoot?

Let me rephrase it. No one wants Kerfoot for what Leaf fans are offering him toward .
He is an underwhelming player making too much $$ that is offered in 99.9994 % of every Leafs trade offers.Why? Because he is a replacement level player making too much and it’s so lame how Leafs fans expect the world for him in trade.

 

[seanlinden]

You focusing too much on his stats.

I will give you an exemple, put nylander with simmonds and clifford without any pp time with matthews and marner, do he keep the same stats? No im not sure if he reaching 60.. Its the same thing with goalie

Put a goalie with one of worst d in NHL do you think they can have the same stats than a complete defensive group?

Anaheim had 3 good NHL dman and 3 bad... of 3 good, 2 of them missed half of ducks games, its sure that will affect a goalie but that not making him a worst player.

Stats are how goalies are measured...

Heck... look at what Stolarz did behind that same team...

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Maybe start with our own Goalie.

Campbell or Mrazek? Can you afford Campbell with Mrazek on roster? I agree that Leafs can't gamble on Gibson with that contract.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Such a silly comment. Why doesn’t anyone want kerfoot?

No one wants to give up assets for a bottom 6 forward (who apparently is more productive on the wing) earning 3.5M.

 

[ITM]

Jack Campbell wasn't the reason Toronto lost the last two years.

Acquiring Gibson - as acquiring implies - requires giving something up to get said something. Toronto isn't in a position to do that and certainly not with Gibson and his contract.

This is a thread directed at the exercise of insisting the implausible must be plausible.