Value of: John Gibson to the Leafs

[thusk]

Stats are how goalies are measured...

Heck... look at what Stolarz did behind that same team...

Carey price sv % last 3 season is 0.905

Gibson is at 0.905

Both primsry back up had better stats than price... so if i take your theory, price who beating leafs by himself last season was not an elite goalie because his back up get better stats than him in a bad team ( who still better than ducks)

Its like when mcehllinney get 0.932 % and you telling me he was better than Andersen at 0.918% ( not enough good) in front of the same team

Back up role is not the same than starting

1- most of the time you having time to be fully prepared, so mentaly by far more easier

2- back up played most of time on easiest condition like playing a home.game unstead of an away game.

 

[thusk]

Jack Campbell wasn't the reason Toronto lost the last two years.

Acquiring Gibson - as acquiring implies - requires giving something up to get said something. Toronto isn't in a position to do that and certainly not with Gibson and his contract.

This is a thread directed at the exercise of insisting the implausible must be plausible.

Campbell get outplayed game #5-6-7 against montreal and 6-7 vs TB at the most important time. Hes not the only reason but hes one of the reason

 

[shortfuze]

No one wants to give up assets for a bottom 6 forward (who apparently is more productive on the wing) earning 3.5M.

His production and PK proves different but ok.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

His production and PK proves different but ok.

He's the ultimate empty stats guy. Easy to fool spreadsheet warriors like Dubas & Co,. Rare combination of pillow soft and prone to game losing mistakes, interspersed with periods of solid overall play with above average offense. Oh, and he's versatile, because he constantly gets shuffled in a lineup because he cant claim a spot. Plenty of worse players, but not worth $3.5 when you are tight at cap.

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm a huge fan of John Gibson and his numbers the last few years don't concern me at all. I think he would be an outstanding addition to the Maple Leafs and if they were able to acquire him without taking away a big piece of their current roster, I think they become legitimate contenders with Gibson in net.

 

[Eggtimer]

Let me rephrase it. No one wants Kerfoot for what Leaf fans are offering him toward . Plus he is underwhelming as a player and gets paid more than he is worth. Oh and why is he included in 99.998 % of Leaf fans trade offers?

 

[seanlinden]

Carey price sv % last 3 season is 0.905

Gibson is at 0.905

Both primsry back up had better stats than price... so if i take your theory, price who beating leafs by himself last season was not an elite goalie because his back up get better stats than him in a bad team ( who still better than ducks)

Its like when mcehllinney get 0.932 % and you telling me he was better than Andersen at 0.918% ( not enough good) in front of the same team

Back up role is not the same than starting

1- most of the time you having time to be fully prepared, so mentaly by far more easier

2- back up played most of time on easiest condition like playing a home.game unstead of an away game.

At this stage of his career, I don't think you'd have too many good teams lining up for Price, even at $6.5m.

Price, when on, might be one of the best in the game, but neither guy has been "on" the last couple of years.

 

[AcerComputer]

Campbell or Mrazek? Can you afford Campbell with Mrazek on roster? I agree that Leafs can't gamble on Gibson with that contract.

Campbell will be cheaper if re-signed than Gibson. Mrazek will be traded, even if we have to retain or throw in an asset, etc. Worse case Mrazek is the backup, probably injures himself and is out for the year.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Campbell will be cheaper if re-signed than Gibson. Mrazek will be traded, even if we have to retain or throw in an asset, etc. Worse case Mrazek is the backup, probably injures himself and is out for the year.

You will have to throw in the equivalence of 2 x 2nd round picks to dump Mrazek.

 

[thusk]

At this stage of his career, I don't think you'd have too many good teams lining up for Price, even at $6.5m.

Price, when on, might be one of the best in the game, but neither guy has been "on" the last couple of years.

Its not about lining up for price or whatever, just to tell than stats dont always giving a reflect of the reality

And its not because of his stage oh his carreer than no body will go for Price but about injury concern. It should be carreer over for Price because of knee injuries.

And like hes proven last season or 2 years ago against pittsburgh, Price is not worst than the Price who won vezina trophy. He just dont have the same talent around him. During playoff they just playing with intensity, lets toronto gget all the space.they want from outside and protrcting at 5 the front of the net and it was almost unbeatable from outside. Tampa used the same kind of strategy game 7 with vasilevskiy and same result... thats the elite goalie impact

 

[AcerComputer]

You will have to throw in the equivalence of 2 x 2nd round picks to dump Mrazek.

His contract is still way better than Gibson's.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

His contract is still way better than Gibson's.

Mrazek is a below average backup. Gibson is a top-tier starter playing on a bad team. If Gibson was on the Leafs, he would be producing elite numbers.

 

[Menzinger]

Mrazek is a below average backup. Gibson is a top-tier starter playing on a bad team. If Gibson was on the Leafs, he would be producing elite numbers.

The issue is there's nothing substantial to back that up. There's indeed a chance it happens, but its hardly a guarantee.

All we have is his play over the last few seasons, which isn't exactly a major selling point.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The issue is there's nothing substantial to back that up. There's indeed a chance it happens, but its hardly a guarantee.

All we have is his play over the last few seasons, which isn't exactly a major selling point.

Let's agree to disagree.

Either way, the Ducks won't dump Gibson unless they get a king's ransom. They don't need to trade Gibson at all and probably shouldn't trade Gibson this season.

The Leafs meanwhile need to improve their goaltending by overpaying a UFA like Kuemper or going with the status quo by overpaying for Campbell.

 

[Gliff]

The issue is there's nothing substantial to back that up. There's indeed a chance it happens, but its hardly a guarantee.

All we have is his play over the last few seasons, which isn't exactly a major selling point.

He was an all star this year lol.

His numbers tanked once the Ducks traded Manson and Lindholm, leaving Fowler as the only top 4 defensemen on the team.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm a huge fan of John Gibson and his numbers the last few years don't concern me at all. I think he would be an outstanding addition to the Maple Leafs and if they were able to acquire him without taking away a big piece of their current roster, I think they become legitimate contenders with Gibson in net.

I think this is the first time we have ever agreed.........ever but I think you are right here

 

[seanlinden]

Its not about lining up for price or whatever, just to tell than stats dont always giving a reflect of the reality

And its not because of his stage oh his carreer than no body will go for Price but about injury concern. It should be carreer over for Price because of knee injuries.

And like hes proven last season or 2 years ago against pittsburgh, Price is not worst than the Price who won vezina trophy. He just dont have the same talent around him. During playoff they just playing with intensity, lets toronto gget all the space.they want from outside and protrcting at 5 the front of the net and it was almost unbeatable from outside. Tampa used the same kind of strategy game 7 with vasilevskiy and same result... thats the elite goalie impact

They may not tell the whole story... but at the end of the day, they are a reasonably compelling story when it's been 3 very consistent years of reasonably poor play.

Don't get me wrong, he might just need a change of scenery, but that's a pretty big risk for a team that's in a hard win-now mode to take.

If he turns out to be just a .904 goalie with that new team, not only is that not going to be good enough, but it's not going to be an easy contract to unload.

 

[makbeer]

Absolutely... which is back to my original post in this thread...

If a GM REALLY believes in Gibson, and wants to take a leap of faith that he's an $8-9m goalie being paid $6.4m, then sure. But that is a fairly substantial leap of faith to take given what he's done over the past 3 years... and the problem with taking that leap of faith is that if you're wrong, it's going to be a very difficult contract to move because he's still going to have 3-4 years left on his deal, and be 4-5 years removed from being a good goalie.

Yah I haven’t watched Gibson enough in the last 3 years to make an educated guess either way.

But I’m a fan of aggressive teams and swinging for home runs.

Leafs keep bunting these days.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Mrazek is a below average backup. Gibson is a top-tier starter playing on a bad team. If Gibson was on the Leafs, he would be producing elite numbers.

we actually agree for one

 

[thusk]

They may not tell the whole story... but at the end of the day, they are a reasonably compelling story when it's been 3 very consistent years of reasonably poor play.

Don't get me wrong, he might just need a change of scenery, but that's a pretty big risk for a team that's in a hard win-now mode to take.

If he turns out to be just a .904 goalie with that new team, not only is that not going to be good enough, but it's not going to be an easy contract to unload.

Like toronto was taking a big risk by trading for campbell a keep him as starter for a goalie whonwqs at 0.900% a year ago and never played more tha 31 game during a season.

Like they took a big risk by giving to brodie 5M for 4 season...

Every time you make a trade or a sign a player, its a risk. If you never take any risk, you cant progress.

I dont think Gibson is a high risk, honestly i watch Gibson played and i watch Campbell played and i cant believe than Gibson in worst case scenario , would not be minimum as good than Campbell

Best case scenario is he came back as a top 5 goalie in NHL and making leafs by far an harder team to beat.

The real risk vs reward you can get, i take it anytime.

 

[HogTown06]

Probably something like Knies, 2022 1st (not particularly valuable at 28th OA), Sandin and 2023 2nd.

Maybe throw Matthews in there? Just to make things fair.

 

[seanlinden]

Like toronto was taking a big risk by trading for campbell a keep him as starter for a goalie whonwqs at 0.900% a year ago and never played more tha 31 game during a season.

Like they took a big risk by giving to brodie 5M for 4 season...

Every time you make a trade or a sign a player, its a risk. If you never take any risk, you cant progress.

I dont think Gibson is a high risk, honestly i watch Gibson played and i watch Campbell played and i cant believe than Gibson in worst case scenario , would not be minimum as good than Campbell

Best case scenario is he came back as a top 5 goalie in NHL and making leafs by far an harder team to beat.

The real risk vs reward you can get, i take it anytime.

There was very, very little risk in trading for Campbell. He was a $1.6m goalie with 2 year left on his deal. They had visions of him hopefully being a really solid backup for Freddy Andersen, and likely somebody who could take a bit of his really heavy workload.

He won the job from Freddy last year, and yes, going from a Freddy-Campbell tandem to a Mrazek-Campbell tandem was certainly a risk, but it's not like they had a bunch of better options with limited cap space and the fact that Freddy wasn't going to come back.

Brodie, not sure that was all that much of a risk. He's always been a solid 2-3 defenceman, and plays a style that tends to age well.

That being said, it's a lot easier for a team to take risks on skaters than it is goalies, simply because when you're paying a guy $5m+, you can really only have 1 goalie.

Yes, you can point to different situations, and certainly different utilizations, but the reality is, Jack Campbell over the last 5 years has been over .915 while Gibson has been firmly under .905.

 

[Stephen]

The issue is there's nothing substantial to back that up. There's indeed a chance it happens, but its hardly a guarantee.

All we have is his play over the last few seasons, which isn't exactly a major selling point.

I'm less worried about what he has done in recent years on a rebuilder in Anaheim more than what being on a rebuilder has done to him. Kypreos said he doesn't want to go to Toronto, take that for what it's worth.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

His contract is still way better than Gibson's.

It's cheaper, but it's not way better because Mrazek isn't 10% the goalie Gibson is, nbecause he can't be because he's missed almost all of the last 2 years

 

[thusk]

There was very, very little risk in trading for Campbell. He was a $1.6m goalie with 2 year left on his deal. They had visions of him hopefully being a really solid backup for Freddy Andersen, and likely somebody who could take a bit of his really heavy workload.

He won the job from Freddy last year, and yes, going from a Freddy-Campbell tandem to a Mrazek-Campbell tandem was certainly a risk, but it's not like they had a bunch of better options with limited cap space and the fact that Freddy wasn't going to come back.

Brodie, not sure that was all that much of a risk. He's always been a solid 2-3 defenceman, and plays a style that tends to age well.

That being said, it's a lot easier for a team to take risks on skaters than it is goalies, simply because when you're paying a guy $5m+, you can really only have 1 goalie.

Yes, you can point to different situations, and certainly different utilizations, but the reality is, Jack Campbell over the last 5 years has been over .915 while Gibson has been firmly under .905.

1- campbell was playing as back up most of the time, not the same thing. We see it during regular season whats the differencw... when he started to struggle, it was much harder to get his confidence back and maybe if hes didn't stop playing because of an injury than his stats would be even worst

2- you saw last season than Get confidence back is pretty hard when you playing in front of one of best team in NhL, just imagine how difficult it is with one of worst team in NHL who get outplayed every game!!!

You add the fact gibson lost probably their 2 best dman defensive side almost half of last 3 season.

Campbell level of difficulty to be sucessful was pretty low in Toronto

Gibson level of difficulty to be sucessful a complete season was extremely high in Anaheim