Player Discussion Joe Morrow

[Dennis Bonvie]

Change undervalued to devalued in your post, and that's what really happened. The guy had value, right up until he came here. Now he's got next to nothing. And pointing to Koko just shows you how dumb the organization has been with the handling of young players. Even if the guy doesn't turn out to be what he was projected, you don't take a steaming **** on your own assets. It's foolhardy. Yet that's what they've done, multiple times.

That makes sense.

Before he came here, he was a former first round pick who hadn't played a game yet in the NHL. Now that everyone has seen him play at this level, he has no value.

 

[LSCII]

My guess to your question: They think they know and have identified him as so.

Oh no question. I just find it odd that a young stay at home type can come in and get a ton of games and make mistakes while the offensive minded guys can't.

 

[LSCII]

That makes sense.

Before he came here, he was a former first round pick who hadn't played a game yet in the NHL. Now that everyone has seen him play at this level, he has no value.

Has he really been given an opportunity to play, make mistakes, and grow though? I'm not so sure of that. What I am sure of though, is that you will unquestionably say he has, despite him getting basically 20ish games per year over the last 3 seasons here. I don't think a random 20 games per year is enough to say what he is or isn't, but hey, that's just me.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Has he really been given an opportunity to play, make mistakes, and grow though? I'm not so sure of that. What I am sure of though, is that you will unquestionably say he has, despite him getting basically 20ish games per year over the last 3 seasons here. I don't think a random 20 games per year is enough to say what he is or isn't, but hey, that's just me.

Not everyone gets that much of a chance.

Zach Hamill was the 8th pick in the draft. Played 20 games. Did they really give him a chance? So, he's been a minor leaguer since then.

Jared Knight was picked ahead of Ryan Spooner in the 2nd round. Hasn't played in the NHL yet.

Tommy Cross, 2nd round pick, 3 NHL games.

Are the Bruins ruining these guys, or is it just possible they aren't good enough?

 

[BBB24]

Please. 61 random games broken up over 3 seasons. Hard to draw any honest conclusions from that. Especially when you look back and see if he made a mistake, he was not dressed the following games, unlike Carlo who has made a ton of mistakes this year but not faced any punitive actions. That's how you really develop a young guy. Throw him into the water and see if he sinks or swims. With Colin Miller and Joe Morrow, it hasn't been like that at all.

I guess the real question you need to ask is why does the stay at home dman get the opportunities to make mistakes and grow from them while the offensive minded guys can't make one mistake without getting the gate?

You are just reaching for things to say. Are you telling me that Carlo holds the same value or vice versa as Morrow, if Morrow was given the same amount of ice time. Carlo was at 22+ mins today, would you be comfortable with.Morrow getting that, I sure wouldn't want to see it. Yes. Carlo makes mistakes but he is solid, usually guys like him recover from errors, which he does. In order to get top mins or ice time period, you have to earn/prove you can handle it. I am willing to bet the Bs wish Morrow was as good as you think he is, it only benefits the team. If a player is good enough for regular shifts he will get them, benefits no one to have him eating pop corn on a nightly basis. But with the standing the way they are, you don't get in unless you earn it, period.

 

[LSCII]

Not everyone gets that much of a chance.

Zach Hamill was the 8th pick in the draft. Played 20 games. Did they really give him a chance? So, he's been a minor leaguer since then.

Jared Knight was picked ahead of Ryan Spooner in the 2nd round. Hasn't played in the NHL yet.

Tommy Cross, 2nd round pick, 3 NHL games.

Are the Bruins ruining these guys, or is it just possible they aren't good enough?

Yeah, and? Take a guy like Krug as an example. When did he get a real chance? You think there's just random coincidence that a guy like McQuaid got more of a shot than a guy like Morrow? Or that a guy like Wade "I haven't been in the league in 3 years, yet here I am dressing in the playoffs for Boston" Redden gets time over a guy like Krug?

The big question is if you even realize the bias or not. I have to believe you don't even see it, but man is it there.

 

[LSCII]

You are just reaching for things to say. Are you telling me that Carlo holds the same value or vice versa as Morrow, if Morrow was given the same amount of ice time. Carlo was at 22+ mins today, would you be comfortable with.Morrow getting that, I sure wouldn't want to see it. Yes. Carlo makes mistakes but he is solid, usually guys like him recover from errors, which he does. In order to get top mins or ice time period, you have to earn/prove you can handle it. I am willing to bet the Bs wish Morrow was as good as you think he is, it only benefits the team. If a player is good enough for regular shifts he will get them, benefits no one to have him eating pop corn on a nightly basis. But with the standing the way they are, you don't get in unless you earn it, period.

It's a reach to say that Claude values stay at home dmen more than offensive minded guys? Really? Newsflash for you, he prefers the same in his forwards. Shocking concept, I'm sure...

In terms of their value, at one point Morrow's was pretty damn high, whether you want to admit it or not. Now, 3 years later, and a random sampling of 20 games per year? Not so much. But is that his fault or how he's been used? That's what you need to answer. To me, I don't know what he is or isn't, and that's the issue I have. At this point, 3 years in, they should know definitively. And if they decided he didn't have it, they should have moved him before his value bottomed out. Much like Koko. It's not that they didn't see him as a fit, but that they crushed his value to nothing and then let him walk. If you don't see that pattern as problematic, well, I can't help you.

 

[AM Bruin]

I just think that the only reason Morrow hasn't been moved yet is because management values him much higher than does Julien.
Clode certainly prefers the guys that bring the snarl. Case in point, Zachary Trotman. As one former Bruin said of him "...has body like Tarzan, plays like Jane."

 

[BBB24]

It's a reach to say that Claude values stay at home dmen more than offensive minded guys? Really? Newsflash for you, he prefers the same in his forwards. Shocking concept, I'm sure...

In terms of their value, at one point Morrow's was pretty damn high, whether you want to admit it or not. Now, 3 years later, and a random sampling of 20 games per year? Not so much. But is that his fault or how he's been used? That's what you need to answer. To me, I don't know what he is or isn't, and that's the issue I have. At this point, 3 years in, they should know definitively. And if they decided he didn't have it, they should have moved him before his value bottomed out. Much like Koko. It's not that they didn't see him as a fit, but that they crushed his value to nothing and then let him walk. If you don't see that pattern as problematic, well, I can't help you.

He seems to value Krug pretty high, I think he is up to #2 in TOI for dmen, so there that arguement down the tube, he is the only offensive dman they have. Now you will counter with Morrow if given a chance, he has been given chances and he doesn't produce anymore than Chara, Carlo or C Miller. Like I said earlier there is a reason he has been traded three times. Morrow vale has never reached his drag position, if the pens had to do it again they would have passed, knowing what they know now. If you don't know what he is by now, nit sure why you are so wrapped up in his future, he is a 7-8 dman on the majority of teams in the league. You can bet if someone offered Sweeney a 3/4 round pick for him, Sweeney would drive him to the airport.

 

[LSCII]

He seems to value Krug pretty high, I think he is up to #2 in TOI for dmen, so there that arguement down the tube, he is the only offensive dman they have. Now you will counter with Morrow if given a chance, he has been given chances and he doesn't produce anymore than Chara, Carlo or C Miller. Like I said earlier there is a reason he has been traded three times. Morrow vale has never reached his drag position, if the pens had to do it again they would have passed, knowing what they know now. If you don't know what he is by now, nit sure why you are so wrapped up in his future, he is a 7-8 dman on the majority of teams in the league. You can bet if someone offered Sweeney a 3/4 round pick for him, Sweeney would drive him to the airport.

Now, yes. Not then. Wade Redden was a better option then, according to Claude. For Morrow's career, he's at 62 gp, and is a minus 7. Kevan Miller is a minue 5 in 25 games this year. One guy can makle mistakes, one can't. Why?

 

[BBB24]

Now, yes. Not then. Wade Redden was a better option then, according to Claude. For Morrow's career, he's at 62 gp, and is a minus 7. Kevan Miller is a minue 5 in 25 games this year. One guy can makle mistakes, one can't. Why?

Like how you spot pick stats, let's be honest career 62 games for Morrow and he is -7, 185 career games for Miller he is +50, pretty good spread. This year the difference between the two is -2 in favour of Morrow. Morrow is worth now what he was when the Bruins got him, a throw in in a multi player deal.

 

[ed bruin]

Like how you spot pick stats, let's be honest career 62 games for Morrow and he is -7, 185 career games for Miller he is +50, pretty good spread. This year the difference between the two is -2 in favour of Morrow. Morrow is worth now what he was when the Bruins got him, a throw in in a multi player deal.

You still have to remember Morrow still has a ceiling, pretty sure Miller also was paired with Chara for a couple of seasons too.

IMO you need to let your assests or prospects play themselves out so they can gain value or retain it. If they do stink then it is what it is. The Bs constantly signing these vets to mid level deals is an old system that doesnt work anymore. Its all about playing around these rookie contracts and then supplementing bigger contracts which the Bs arent doing. Let the kids plays lol

Granted I don't know if Morrow will ever be good and I truly believe most D-men take longer to develop, but the way the Bs as an organization with how they deal with prospects erks me. Someone mentioned it before, I think there is a big disconnect with how the front office views prospects in comparison of how Julien does

 

[sarge88]

You still have to remember Morrow still has a ceiling, pretty sure Miller also was paired with Chara for a couple of seasons too.

IMO you need to let your assests or prospects play themselves out so they can gain value or retain it. If they do stink then it is what it is. The Bs constantly signing these vets to mid level deals is an old system that doesnt work anymore. Its all about playing around these rookie contracts and then supplementing bigger contracts which the Bs arent doing. Let the kids plays lol

Granted I don't know if Morrow will ever be good and I truly believe most D-men take longer to develop, but the way the Bs as an organization with how they deal with prospects erks me. Someone mentioned it before, I think there is a big disconnect with how the front office views prospects in comparison of how Julien does

Good post.

To me the bottom line is this....if Morrow blew out his knee and his career was over tomorrow....does anyone feel that he was ever given a fair shot to develop?

I don't think so....not even close, and definitely not consistent with how he has performed, especially this year.

 

[bearcountry17]

It's a reach to say that Claude values stay at home dmen more than offensive minded guys? Really? Newsflash for you, he prefers the same in his forwards. Shocking concept, I'm sure...

In terms of their value, at one point Morrow's was pretty damn high, whether you want to admit it or not. Now, 3 years later, and a random sampling of 20 games per year? Not so much. But is that his fault or how he's been used? That's what you need to answer. To me, I don't know what he is or isn't, and that's the issue I have. At this point, 3 years in, they should know definitively. And if they decided he didn't have it, they should have moved him before his value bottomed out. Much like Koko. It's not that they didn't see him as a fit, but that they crushed his value to nothing and then let him walk. If you don't see that pattern as problematic, well, I can't help you.

Seems like a lot of fuss for a JAG....

 

[BBB24]

You still have to remember Morrow still has a ceiling, pretty sure Miller also was paired with Chara for a couple of seasons too.

IMO you need to let your assests or prospects play themselves out so they can gain value or retain it. If they do stink then it is what it is. The Bs constantly signing these vets to mid level deals is an old system that doesnt work anymore. Its all about playing around these rookie contracts and then supplementing bigger contracts which the Bs arent doing. Let the kids plays lol

Granted I don't know if Morrow will ever be good and I truly believe most D-men take longer to develop, but the way the Bs as an organization with how they deal with prospects erks me. Someone mentioned it before, I think there is a big disconnect with how the front office views prospects in comparison of how Julien does

Take a look at the standings, no time to see if Morrow has it. He has played games and cannot crack the lineup on a regular basis, C Miller and Carlo both proved they could so they play. Fans would be screaming if Morrow was out there being Morrow, the coaches job is to win, How he gets those results is play the players he feels gives him the best opportunity to do so, so far so good.

 

[sarge88]

Take a look at the standings, no time to see if Morrow has it. He has played games and cannot crack the lineup on a regular basis, C Miller and Carlo both proved they could so they play. Fans would be screaming if Morrow was out there being Morrow, the coaches job is to win, How he gets those results is play the players he feels gives him the best opportunity to do so, so far so good.

May have agreed entirely if this was last season. I do agree that there's no reason to change things now because they're fighting for a playoff spot and are playing well.

What I don't agree with is that he didn't play well in his limited time in the lineup this year.

 

[chizzler]

Take a look at the standings, no time to see if Morrow has it. He has played games and cannot crack the lineup on a regular basis, C Miller and Carlo both proved they could so they play. Fans would be screaming if Morrow was out there being Morrow, the coaches job is to win, How he gets those results is play the players he feels gives him the best opportunity to do so, so far so good.

C Miller falls in line with Spooner. Got playing time due to injury. Down goes Liles, in goes Colin. Before that, he's in and out.

 

[finchster]

Joe Morrow has to play mistake free hockey. When you play the fewest minutes against the weakest opponents, you can't expect to play more minutes. He will be playing in Europe next year.

 

[VanIsle]

McQuaid was trash this game, multiple giveaways and dumps that made no sense, 0 hockey sense.

Give Morrow a chance.

 

[Number8]

Curious as to who they have been doing that to. Morrow is a tweener, but if they try and send him down they will lose him, trade him and at best you get a fourth. If he was good he would play, see Carlo. Chia's drafting left lots to be desired, Sweeney we are still on wait and see,another year or two will tell the tale. O'Gara is not ready, a least not yet or he would be here. People who complain about Claude and rookies have obviously not looked at the roster lately. Schaller, Czarnik, Carlo, C Miller, Blidh, Accardi, Heinen, and the list goes on this year. For me Morrow is the seventh dman on thus team, there is a reason he has been traded three times, not saying he is terrible but he is not quit there.

Nice post, but I'm afraid it's too logical.

Better to stick with "Claude hates kids - we ruin young players -- poor asset management." ....... even if it's not true.

 

[chizzler]

Nice post, but I'm afraid it's too logical.

Better to stick with "Claude hates kids - we ruin young players -- poor asset management." ....... even if it's not true.

I don't think he hates kids, but I think he surely has his favorites. I understand it's a results based business. One thing on the topic, it's not just Clode, that falls into poor asset management. Looks like it's 50% pro and 50% against. The only problem I think Clode has with Morrow is maybe the physicality, because they all make mistakes. In fact, some of the regulars make worse mistakes than I ever seen Morrow make. Is sitting this guy all year good asset management?

You can make the comparison to KMiller. What the advantage? Hitting? Miller is always hurt. He can't fight due to his shoulder. Break out? Advantage Morrow. Hockey sense? That's up for debate when you have no confidence. What value does this kid have now?

It's going to be interesting to see what happens now that Liles is back.

 

[ODAAT]

McQuaid was trash this game, multiple giveaways and dumps that made no sense, 0 hockey sense.

Give Morrow a chance.

the 3rd Flyers goal (think it was Simmonds), Quaider lost, almost as though he didn`t know or see Simmonds literally standing right behind him.

 

[ODAAT]

I don't think he hates kids, but I think he surely has his favorites. I understand it's a results based business. One thing on the topic, it's not just Clode, that falls into poor asset management. Looks like it's 50% pro and 50% against. The only problem I think Clode has with Morrow is maybe the physicality, because they all make mistakes. In fact, some of the regulars make worse mistakes than I ever seen Morrow make. Is sitting this guy all year good asset management?

You can make the comparison to KMiller. What the advantage? Hitting? Miller is always hurt. He can't fight due to his shoulder. Break out? Advantage Morrow. Hockey sense? That's up for debate when you have no confidence. What value does this kid have now?

It's going to be interesting to see what happens now that Liles is back.

Miller more physical and while it ain`t sexy, I`ll try and lay out my reasoning for why CJ and his staff would prefer Miller in over Morrow. For one, yes, Morrow can break the puck out quicker, hardly an argument there however, unless he has time, rarily do I see Morrow`s feet getting he and his teammates out of trouble. Far too often he`ll take that puck and fire it around the boards without so much of a look to see what`s out there (now, to be fair, there isn`t a D-man out there who hasn`t done this but..)

Whereas with Miller, I have seen him on numerous occasions eating the puck, hugging the boards with the puck rather than try and force it through bodies or hammering it around the boards. Miller and Quaider, for the most part, don`t exactly throw out the welcome mat to opponents to come and camp in front of the net, Morrow and C Miller, bring little to sway opponents

Now, I`m on the record that I go with mobility 8 days a week and would welcome both of C Miller and Morrow in the lineup game in and out. That said, I know with those two in there, mistakes will happen, and the odds are, IMO, those mistakes will end up in the back of the net too often.

Pro coaches don`t coach for the future, it`s not their job, their job is to win now, and CJ is no different, potentially more risk averse than other coaches but I would hazard a guess that if we had a panel of all NHL coaches and presented them a scenario where you have a vet and a kid/younger prospect available and you have a spot to fill, on a team literally fighting for their playoff lives game in and out, they would all play the vet unless it`s a team like the Leafs who are going young, warts and all

 

[tkddad]

Liles gave the puck up in OT, lost us the game and he keeps playing. I have to admit the Morrow of last year made mistakes like Liles' but his play of this year has been solid. Liles has no future with the club. Shouldn't we at least find out if Morrow can handle the job? It would at least increase his trade value if anything.

Morrow should play before Liles or even K Miller/McQuaid and shouldn't be left to rot upstairs.

 

[ODAAT]

Liles gave the puck up in OT, lost us the game and he keeps playing. I have to admit the Morrow of last year made mistakes like Liles' but his play of this year has been solid. Liles has no future with the club. Shouldn't we at least find out if Morrow can handle the job? It would at least increase his trade value if anything.

Morrow should play before Liles or even K Miller/McQuaid and shouldn't be left to rot upstairs.

my guess right now is they are playing Liles to move him, my thought process has me thinking they want to move him by the deadline to a team who are looking for a guy who won`t eat a ton of minutes, but can help on their PP in the playoffs.

Liles mistake cost them the point the other night but had the Bruins found a way to convert one of the many chances prior to it, it wouldn`t have mattered.

If Morrow was light years better than Liles, I`d agree, but he isn`t and I`m not so sure opposing teams are lined up to acquire him. I think too many here over rate him.