Player Discussion Joe Morrow II

[BruinDust]

On a "just made it" eighth place team that got dropped in the first round. I wouldn't exactly call what the Bruins have as a gold standard to a cup.

Hence why I said they would be in the Top 6 of almost every team in the league, save for a few.

This D made the playoffs last year in part because of the way the D as a group played, not in spite of it.

 

[TheBigBadB]

Was never too high on this guy. Not really a loss. But still not liking the idea of both Miller and McQuaid in the top 6, and the talk of bringing Liles back.

If he brings Liles and Moore back, it really says to me the biggest concern for Sweeney is the playoffs, not winning a cup. A bunch of safe players that may squeak out just enough wins to make the playoffs but have no chance over the long haul of the playoffs

 

[TheBigBadB]

Hence why I said they would be in the Top 6 of almost every team in the league, save for a few.

This D made the playoffs last year in part because of the way the D as a group played, not in spite of it.

So no need to improve it because they did well last year? Do you think every prospect is going to hit like Carlo and McAvoy? So Zobril will pass Mcquaid or Miller on the depth charts? I doubt it. They got extremely lucky but it is really not the norm for defenseman especially to develop that quickly

 

[bigd]

That's a bit disingenuous, no?

He was a first round pick and top rated prospect in Penguins organization and was moved at the deadline for Brenden Morrow, when they were trying to make a cup run. He was then flipped to Boston as part of the Seguin deal, again because he was considered a highly regarded prospect in the Stars organization. Before suiting up for the Bruins, he had never played a game at the NHL level.

Highly regarded by who, HF fans? If he was so highly regarded by those teams they wouldn't have let him go so easily.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Sad day for the Bruins. Losing Colin Miller and now Joe Morrow. It really does seem like Sweeney is trying to rid himself of past Chairelli deals.
Two other past Bruin players seem to have turned it around since leaving Boston:

Matt Benning 62 games 3 goals 12 assets for 15 points

Brett Connolly 66 games 15 goals 8 assets for 23 points

I would suspect Joe Morrow will as well.

Tyler Seguin trade to the Stars for Loui Eriksson, Joe Morrow, Reilly Smith, and Matt Fraser, will go down in history as one of the worst trades in NHL history.

Joe Thornton trade to San Jose sending forwards Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and defenseman Brad Stuart to the Bruins is near the top as well.

No wonder Sweeney is scared to make a deal.

Brett Connolly with 15 goals & 23 points / 66 games, while playing for a 118 points, President's Trophy winning Washington team & shooting at 18.5% is not = "turning it around since leaving Boston", when he had 9 goals & 25 points / 71 games while shooting 9.5% for the 93 points, playoffs-missing 2015-16 Boston Bruins.

And pointing out player XYZ previous season vs a better performance this year isn't really meaning much and especially for the sake of inferring of some supposed flaws with Boston.
Example: Loui Eriksson with Boston in 15-16... 30 goals / 63 points in 82 games... Loui Eriksson with Vancouver in 16-17... 11 goals / 24 points in 65 games.

PS: Matt Benning???

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

If he brings Liles and Moore back, it really says to me the biggest concern for Sweeney is the playoffs, not winning a cup. A bunch of safe players that may squeak out just enough wins to make the playoffs but have no chance over the long haul of the playoffs

There isn't really much room when you think about it. I think ideally Sweeney acquires a LHD (Scandella, Brodin, etc.) that plays behind Chara, and trades McQuaid somewhere.

Chara Carlo
Scandella McAvoy
Krug K Miller

If nothing materializes McQuaid obviously jumps back into the top 6, but we already have Zboril/Lauzon/O'Gara/Cross/Johansson and Grizz in Providence. Do we sign a vet to be the 7th D or have one of Grizz/O'Gara/Cross fill that role?

I want to believe Sweeney is going to acquire a top four D, but we've been hearing that for years.

 

[LSCII]

Highly regarded by who, HF fans? If he was so highly regarded by those teams they wouldn't have let him go so easily.

By scouts, teams, front offices, coaches, performance in juniors, etc. But hey, he didn't pan out, so you're right. FWIW, If he was so poorly viewed, he'd have never been included in any trades because no team would want him. Yet teams did, twice in less than a few months.

The problem is that he was either handled wrong by the Bruins, or he wasn't very good to start with, and was overvalued by their scouting staff. Either way, that's a red flag. Doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies thinking these guys are still the guys making the evaluations on players.

 

[bigd]

I can't believe guys are upset about losing Morrow. He's just not that good defensively that he can't easily be replaced by a more competent free agent.

 

[LSCII]

I can't believe guys are upset about losing Morrow. He's just not that good defensively that he can't easily be replaced by a more competent free agent.

I'm not upset with it. I'm scared that the same decision makers that thought he was a viable player are still in charge.

 

[CharaBadSenyshynGawd]

A real grass is always greener mentality I see. Brett Connolly is like a homeless mans Chuck Kobasew.

I'd have tried to swing a deal with Vegas to make them Take Morrow over Miller but I wouldn't have given much. Just think Millers got a bigger upside. Both guys are probably going to live out their NHL lives as bottom pairing guys that "have the potential to jump into a top4 role". Don't see either as a big loss.

If Morrow wasn't involved in the Seguin deal I don't think anyone else would have a problem with it either.

 

[Gordoff]

Sad day for the Bruins. Losing Colin Miller and now Joe Morrow. It really does seem like Sweeney is trying to rid himself of past Chairelli deals.
Two other past Bruin players seem to have turned it around since leaving Boston:

Matt Benning 62 games 3 goals 12 assets for 15 points

Brett Connolly 66 games 15 goals 8 assets for 23 points

I would suspect Joe Morrow will as well.

Tyler Seguin trade to the Stars for Loui Eriksson, Joe Morrow, Reilly Smith, and Matt Fraser, will go down in history as one of the worst trades in NHL history.

Joe Thornton trade to San Jose sending forwards Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and defenseman Brad Stuart to the Bruins is near the top as well.

No wonder Sweeney is scared to make a deal.

He doesn't seem to have the confidence in his pro scouts to be really sure about making a "hockey trade" IMO. That being the case he apparently goes with the path of least doubt and sticks with what he knows. He needs to clean house of the deadweight in that department and bring in proven pro scouting talent. This is a huge weakness and the weak link in their chain of talent evaluation. I don't know enough about who they should be looking at, who's available etc. but that should've been job #1 when he took over the job. I wonder, has he tried upgrading that department and the Camster put the kibosh on it? Either way it's an obviously huge problem IMHO.

What the non tender for Morrow really says is that this team's scouting staff at the professional level cannot be trusted at all. What an abomination of a job they've done over the past 5 years. Have they come close to even winning one trade??

Five years at least. They identified, Boychuk, Seidenberg and Soupy as players to go out and get but since then they've been a disaster.

I think he and C Miller are kind of the same, both with solid skill set, both struggle to make quick, wise decisions with the puck.
Neither have yet to think quicker than the pace of the game, maybe that will happen but we shall see

QFT^!^!^!

This is Sweeney that thinks all his picks are going to jump right to the NHL. It's almost a bad thing when he had too much success too early. Carlo and McAVoy jump right in so he now must think this is the norm. Don't need C Miller or Morrow because of this. Where is the depth now especially when Mcquaid gets hurt consistently? We expecting Zorbril to jump right in right away. O'Gara/Cross are not the answer they will play just as well as Miller/Morrow. So now they need to pick up at least one depth defenseman. My guess another journeyman stay at home defender.

Another mistake I see is not letting defensemen develop. Can't wait to we give up on another set of young defenseman if they don't automatically become top 4 defenseman with in a year or two.

I want to trust Sweeney but I feel like it's giving an inexperienced driver a set of keys. You want to trust but there is apprehension behind it.

By scouts, teams, front offices, coaches, performance in juniors, etc. But hey, he didn't pan out, so you're right. FWIW, If he was so poorly viewed, he'd have never been included in any trades because no team would want him. Yet teams did, twice in less than a few months.

The problem is that he was either handled wrong by the Bruins, or he wasn't very good to start with, and was overvalued by their scouting staff. Either way, that's a red flag. Doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies thinking these guys are still the guys making the evaluations on players.

Yeah, talk about ruining a kid early on. I can't imagine what he felt constantly being told to sit. Finally, when they had nobody, or no more bodies to put in during the Sens series they let him suit up and he played well enough but they never gave him credit for it.

I'm not upset with it. I'm scared that the same decision makers that thought he was a viable player are still in charge.

It makes perfect sense to be scared. The decisions that they've made are scary!

If he brings Liles and Moore back, it really says to me the biggest concern for Sweeney is the playoffs, not winning a cup. A bunch of safe players that may squeak out just enough wins to make the playoffs but have no chance over the long haul of the playoffs

Mike O'Connell, Harry Sinden redux!

 

[Gordoff]

A real grass is always greener mentality I see. Brett Connolly is like a homeless mans Chuck Kobasew.

I'd have tried to swing a deal with Vegas to make them Take Morrow over Miller but I wouldn't have given much. Just think Millers got a bigger upside. Both guys are probably going to live out their NHL lives as bottom pairing guys that "have the potential to jump into a top4 role". Don't see either as a big loss.

If Morrow wasn't involved in the Seguin deal I don't think anyone else would have a problem with it either.

I think that you're going to be surprised at what they're both going to accomplish in the near future. Time will tell!

 

[LSCII]

I think that you're going to be surprised at what they're both going to accomplish in the near future. Time will tell!

Agreed. It's funny that so few posters here have picked up on how many guys that were marginal here have left and gone on to far greater success once they've left here. And I don't mean old guys like Loui Eriksson, since we all know someone will bring up examples like that. I mean young guys that were good here but had barely scratched the surface for what they'd ultimately become. Some of them were even outright hated.

Makes you wonder how much of it was the scouting staff getting it wrong versus the coach forcing everyone to adhere to an outdated system, and expecting them to play like Patrice Bergeron before they were allowed to ever make a mistake without facing punitive actions.

 

[ODAAT]

Agreed. It's funny that so few posters here have picked up on how many guys that were marginal here have left and gone on to far greater success once they've left here. And I don't mean old guys like Loui Eriksson, since we all know someone will bring up examples like that. I mean young guys that were good here but had barely scratched the surface for what they'd ultimately become. Some of them were even outright hated.

Makes you wonder how much of it was the scouting staff getting it wrong versus the coach forcing everyone to adhere to an outdated system, and expecting them to play like Patrice Bergeron before they were allowed to ever make a mistake without facing punitive actions.

who?

Seguin? Super offensive talent, has won 0 since he left

Kessel? Did about what he did in Boston while with the Leafs, moved to a team with some guy named Crosby, another Malkin, has been a very nice complimentary piece but still seems to be viewed as the best 40 goal scorer to have never hit 40 but two rings so can`t take that away from him, won`t say he`s elevated his game since being moved

Hamilton? Again, nice D-man, jury still out if he ever becomes more than a nice offensive D-man, has won zippo since the trade

Riley Smith? Nice first season with the Panther immediately causing many here to have a case of amnesia and completely ignore the multitude of pages in a thread devoted to their willingness to trade him for a bag of pucks (those pucks then named Jimmy Hayes)

Boychuk? Again, nice guy, loved him in a B`s uni but has he gone onto "great success" ? Not in my books

Seids- see above

Blake Wheeler? Again, nice player, not sure he`s gone onto great success

I didn`t like nor necessarily agree with some of the moves either Chia or DS has made, but there is not one of those higher profile players who, IMO, when taken in your context had gone onto having "greater success" other than possibly Kessel and if his Pens didn`t win a cup, not sure he could be included.

 

[bruins repeat time]

who?

Seguin? Super offensive talent, has won 0 since he left

Kessel? Did about what he did in Boston while with the Leafs, moved to a team with some guy named Crosby, another Malkin, has been a very nice complimentary piece but still seems to be viewed as the best 40 goal scorer to have never hit 40 but two rings so can`t take that away from him, won`t say he`s elevated his game since being moved

Hamilton? Again, nice D-man, jury still out if he ever becomes more than a nice offensive D-man, has won zippo since the trade

Riley Smith? Nice first season with the Panther immediately causing many here to have a case of amnesia and completely ignore the multitude of pages in a thread devoted to their willingness to trade him for a bag of pucks (those pucks then named Jimmy Hayes)

Boychuk? Again, nice guy, loved him in a B`s uni but has he gone onto "great success" ? Not in my books

Seids- see above

Blake Wheeler? Again, nice player, not sure he`s gone onto great success

I didn`t like nor necessarily agree with some of the moves either Chia or DS has made, but there is not one of those higher profile players who, IMO, when taken in your context had gone onto having "greater success" other than possibly Kessel and if his Pens didn`t win a cup, not sure he could be included.

I agree with a lot of this . I do think we can say Wheeler has made quite a break out . Seguin was obvious and Peter said it on behind the Bs. Kessel was obvious . Hamilton wanted out and he might obviously become pretty good .

Now lets go the golden boys guys like to talk about on here . r.smith -yes we obviously lost the trade but he is so valuable he was just a throw in to Vegas ---guess he is not too high on their list of importance . Connolly played 7 games in the playoffs 0 points minus 2 and often a healthy scratch . Just for the record I kind of like both these guys but they are hardly awesome players .

The only thing you can really argue against the bruins is we have given up probably four of the most six talented player we have had by the beginning of last yr . I am not saying best but pure talent seguin 1 kessel 2 or 3 and wheeler 5 or 6 as far as forwards go and Hamilton 1 as far as def goes pre Charlie. Pasta is like the only one we kept and maybe marchy if you put him that high in talent . The circumstances around Kessel and Hamilton though made it pretty well impossible to keep them so that leaves Tyler --obviously a huge mistake and Wheeler who was move helped win the cup . Considering everything Tyler is all you can really cry about .

 

[bruins repeat time]

If he brings Liles and Moore back, it really says to me the biggest concern for Sweeney is the playoffs, not winning a cup. A bunch of safe players that may squeak out just enough wins to make the playoffs but have no chance over the long haul of the playoffs

I will take Moore back any day of the week but please please don't sign Liles

 

[Beesfan]

who?

Seguin? Super offensive talent, has won 0 since he left

Kessel? Did about what he did in Boston while with the Leafs, moved to a team with some guy named Crosby, another Malkin, has been a very nice complimentary piece but still seems to be viewed as the best 40 goal scorer to have never hit 40 but two rings so can`t take that away from him, won`t say he`s elevated his game since being moved

Hamilton? Again, nice D-man, jury still out if he ever becomes more than a nice offensive D-man, has won zippo since the trade

Riley Smith? Nice first season with the Panther immediately causing many here to have a case of amnesia and completely ignore the multitude of pages in a thread devoted to their willingness to trade him for a bag of pucks (those pucks then named Jimmy Hayes)

Boychuk? Again, nice guy, loved him in a B`s uni but has he gone onto "great success" ? Not in my books

Seids- see above

Blake Wheeler? Again, nice player, not sure he`s gone onto great success

I didn`t like nor necessarily agree with some of the moves either Chia or DS has made, but there is not one of those higher profile players who, IMO, when taken in your context had gone onto having "greater success" other than possibly Kessel and if his Pens didn`t win a cup, not sure he could be included.

Only one I really disagree with on this list is Wheeler, who has far exceeded his play in Boston and any expectations any reasonable person could have had for him.

Also, Kessel has proven he is a playoff warrior. Played well in the playoffs here. His heart and desire to win is underrated, and always has been. It is Seguin who doesn't care about hockey or winning.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Agreed. It's funny that so few posters here have picked up on how many guys that were marginal here have left and gone on to far greater success once they've left here. And I don't mean old guys like Loui Eriksson, since we all know someone will bring up examples like that. I mean young guys that were good here but had barely scratched the surface for what they'd ultimately become. Some of them were even outright hated.

Makes you wonder how much of it was the scouting staff getting it wrong versus the coach forcing everyone to adhere to an outdated system, and expecting them to play like Patrice Bergeron before they were allowed to ever make a mistake without facing punitive actions.

The only one that I think really qualifies is Wheeler. Lazy, kinda uninterested here... Got traded and that was a kick in the bum to get his crap together and he fulfilled expectations in Winnipeg that he never fulfilled here.

And about "old guy" (come on, seriously?) Eriksson who is not even 32 yet, he is as good an example as anyone else. But I guess he doesn't fit the agenda of some, so let's not consider him, right?

 

[Therick67]

Anyway you slice it, the Seguin trade was horrific.

The Bruins got hosed and have NOTHING to show for it, it's not even debatable.

He's 25 and has put up a point a game since he left. How's Matt Fraser doing these days?

No, Seguin hasn't won anything since he left, either have the Bruins..

I don't understand how fans act like that trade is no big deal, I reserve that kind of cool aid drinking for the Patriots.

 

[PB37]

I think that you're going to be surprised at what they're both going to accomplish in the near future. Time will tell!

Morrow is going to his 4th organization at 24 years old. Miller is going to his third at the same age. There should be a responsibility on the player for getting better ( or regressing ) as well as the team to help them get better.

I saw some good things from both ( more CMiller than Morrow ) but in the end, they were bottom pairing/7th dman guys who will most likely remain as bottom pairing guys. I think CMiller has the talent to be a top 4 guy but his IQ holds him back. He was an expansion draft casualty so I'm not that upset.

 

[Gordoff]

who?

Seguin? Super offensive talent, has won 0 since he left

Kessel? Did about what he did in Boston while with the Leafs, moved to a team with some guy named Crosby, another Malkin, has been a very nice complimentary piece but still seems to be viewed as the best 40 goal scorer to have never hit 40 but two rings so can`t take that away from him, won`t say he`s elevated his game since being moved

Hamilton? Again, nice D-man, jury still out if he ever becomes more than a nice offensive D-man, has won zippo since the trade

Riley Smith? Nice first season with the Panther immediately causing many here to have a case of amnesia and completely ignore the multitude of pages in a thread devoted to their willingness to trade him for a bag of pucks (those pucks then named Jimmy Hayes)

Boychuk? Again, nice guy, loved him in a B`s uni but has he gone onto "great success" ? Not in my books

Seids- see above

Blake Wheeler? Again, nice player, not sure he`s gone onto great success

I didn`t like nor necessarily agree with some of the moves either Chia or DS has made, but there is not one of those higher profile players who, IMO, when taken in your context had gone onto having "greater success" other than possibly Kessel and if his Pens didn`t win a cup, not sure he could be included.

I thought that we were also talking about Versteeg, Seguin (is getting better all the time) Kessel (has won 2 cups even though he's a bit of a lazy slug). . Juneau was another that I didn't think Harry gave a chance to and he thrived in Montreal. There are lots of examples IMO you just have to be willing to open your eyes to them and not just drink the Koolaid

Only one I really disagree with on this list is Wheeler, who has far exceeded his play in Boston and any expectations any reasonable person could have had for him.

Also, Kessel has proven he is a playoff warrior. Played well in the playoffs here. His heart and desire to win is underrated, and always has been. It is Seguin who doesn't care about hockey or winning.

Wheeler is a killer of an example but when he played here he really didn't blossom yet. You could say that the trade to send him to Winnipeg woke him up!

Morrow is going to his 4th organization at 24 years old. Miller is going to his third at the same age. There should be a responsibility on the player for getting better ( or regressing ) as well as the team to help them get better.

I saw some good things from both ( more CMiller than Morrow ) but in the end, they were bottom pairing/7th dman guys who will most likely remain as bottom pairing guys. I think CMiller has the talent to be a top 4 guy but his IQ holds him back. He was an expansion draft casualty so I'm not that upset.

HOW? How do you get better when you don't see game action? This "IQ" thing is a cop out. All I can say is that They're going to get a chance somewhere else and we'll see what happens.

 

[Gordoff]

Coach Cassidy made a comment about not "trying to stick a round peg in a square hole." In that one statement he said enough for a volume on Claude. Hopefully Cassidy will have a great year leading the team this year.

 

[LSCII]

who?

Seguin? Super offensive talent, has won 0 since he left

Kessel? Did about what he did in Boston while with the Leafs, moved to a team with some guy named Crosby, another Malkin, has been a very nice complimentary piece but still seems to be viewed as the best 40 goal scorer to have never hit 40 but two rings so can`t take that away from him, won`t say he`s elevated his game since being moved

Hamilton? Again, nice D-man, jury still out if he ever becomes more than a nice offensive D-man, has won zippo since the trade

Riley Smith? Nice first season with the Panther immediately causing many here to have a case of amnesia and completely ignore the multitude of pages in a thread devoted to their willingness to trade him for a bag of pucks (those pucks then named Jimmy Hayes)

Boychuk? Again, nice guy, loved him in a B`s uni but has he gone onto "great success" ? Not in my books

Seids- see above

Blake Wheeler? Again, nice player, not sure he`s gone onto great success

I didn`t like nor necessarily agree with some of the moves either Chia or DS has made, but there is not one of those higher profile players who, IMO, when taken in your context had gone onto having "greater success" other than possibly Kessel and if his Pens didn`t win a cup, not sure he could be included.

You know I always respect your opinion Andrew so don't take this the wrong way, but the same can be said for Boston. What exactly have they won since Seguin left? I also don't think it's fair in the least to hold one player accountable for an entire team's success or failure. To win the cup, you need all the oars in the water rowing in the same direction. One guy cannot do it all by himself.

So the idea that since Seguin hasn't won a cup since they moved him for pennies on the dollar somehow magically makes the horrendous deal okay, well, I just can't get on board with that. It doesn't. Regardless of his team's performance.

 

[LSCII]

Coach Cassidy made a comment about not "trying to stick a round peg in a square hole." In that one statement he said enough for a volume on Claude. Hopefully Cassidy will have a great year leading the team this year.

Yep. This is exactly why I have hope for the future. Claude looked at every player and wanted them to all be the same. If they were different, he tried to make them bend to what he wanted, rather than taking advantage of what they brought to the table. It's a huge reason why I've questioned whether the drafting was suspect or whether the development was the cause for the lack of draft picks becoming NHL players.

I mean, could you imagine Claude using the dmen that Cassidy had to use in the playoffs? The guy would have lost his mind, and ended up leaving Chara out there all game.

 

[Gordoff]

Yep. This is exactly why I have hope for the future. Claude looked at every player and wanted them to all be the same. If they were different, he tried to make them bend to what he wanted, rather than taking advantage of what they brought to the table. It's a huge reason why I've questioned whether the drafting was suspect or whether the development was the cause for the lack of draft picks becoming NHL players.

I mean, could you imagine Claude using the dmen that Cassidy had to use in the playoffs? The guy would have lost his mind, and ended up leaving Chara out there all game.

I don't know what else he had to pull out, but whatever it was, it would've been gone.