Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XVIII)

[winterpeg]

The value of the vehicle doesn't change, but the value and utility to the owner does.

I would trade Buff the D-man for that package.
My point is that at this point we've essentially traded Buff the D-man for Buff the third line winger (except on the powerplay). If he's going to be a winger for this team, and its such a need, why don't we trade him for a far better winger?

You're correct. I'm just saying that his trade value to a team needing a risk/reward defenseman like him, doesn't change because Maurice has played him as a winger for 12 games. I think he's less valuable to us here playing forward than D. But it doesn't mean teams are only going to trade for him as a 3rd line forward.

Exactly as you said, if he doesn't have utility to us as a D, trade him to someone who values him that high, for someone who is better at the job we are using him for now.

 

[wpgsilver]

You're correct. I'm just saying that his trade value to a team needing a risk/reward defenseman like him, doesn't change because Maurice has played him as a winger for 12 games. I think he's less valuable to us here playing forward than D. But it doesn't mean teams are only going to trade for him as a 3rd line forward.

Exactly as you said, if he doesn't have utility to us as a D, trade him to someone who values him that high, for someone who is better at the job we are using him for now.

I think we agree about everything except the value of the package.
I think Maatta is a stud. I think we could re-sign Niskanen.
And I think with Kane and Halischuk coming back we can bolster our third line.

 

[KingBogo]

Exactly.

If I buy a Ferrari, and I don't know how to drive standard, (I do, though) it doesn't change the resale value of the car just because I don't know how to use it. (unless I'm PHYSICALLY damaging it)

Buff is still the defenseman he was 2 months ago, and his value is as such, regardless of where the coach has put him for the last 3 weeks.

Agreed. Where we are currently playing Buff won't have an impact on his value in the short term. It might even open up the market. A few years back a Stanley Cup Champion made very good use of Buff as a forward. You add in his PP capabilities he may be of interest to a few teams.

 

[CaptainChef]

your easily swayed. i wouldn't do that at all.

the fact that we're playing buff as our third line winger doesn't make it a good deal.

maata's nice, but the other two are near useless to us. add in retaining half of buffs salary and i'd want a significant piece on matta.

also keep in mind, the league (real gms/teams) don't value young players/prospects quite as highly as the fans on HF do.

I don't want to trade with pittsburgh simply because they seem to win a lot of trades (besides the murray acquisition)

I'm with you on this one. Buff as frustrating as he can be as a defenseman would be highly desired by a number of teams. Anyone who buys into the advanced stats, and I believe there is more and more buy-in among modern GMs, can see that Buff is a stud on defense. If you like to play safe on the other hand, you go for a guy like Stu.

Buff is a great passer and has amazing hands. Teams are always looking for PP specialists and whether hes back at the point, in the middle, or in front of the net, Buff is excellent on the PP. His ability to pass from the defensive zone forward is phenomenal.

So, I believe he has tremendous value to the right teams. I buy into the possibility of him returning two good players or a top player and good prospect. I don't see Chevy getting rid of him for less than that now, although that may change a lot if we don't get rid of him by or during the 2014 draft.

 

[phamJET]

burmistrov rights + 2nd round pick for kesler? you guy think Vancover would do it?

 

[Gm0ney]

burmistrov rights + 2nd round pick for kesler? you guy think Vancover would do it?

Lol no. But they're in a huge tailspin right now and I wouldn't mind seeing the Jets pull one over on them in their hour of desperation.

 

[drumzan]

burmistrov rights + 2nd round pick for kesler? you guy think Vancover would do it?

Jets don't have a 2nd, unless it's 2015.

 

[sully1410]

Jets don't have a 2nd, unless it's 2015.

I'd even trade our first this year if that was the deal lol

 

[phamJET]

I would try and move buff at the deadline, because he plays on the 3rd line put has 1st line trade value. I would target 1st line scorers/2nd line scorers.

 

[dave babych returns]

burmistrov rights + 2nd round pick for kesler? you guy think Vancover would do it?

Haha, no.

I was actually on my way in here to ask what you guys think it would take to get Burmistrov.

I was think of something along the lines of Schroeder (one year older, 2" smaller but in the NHL now and it's early to say he won't be as good as AB) and Jannik Hansen for Burmistrov and a decent draft pick..

But I dreamed that up thinking you guys had worked your way into a better playoff position.

Still, everything I read about the Jets is that the big problem with the forward group is depth, and getting two middle six guys right now sure couldn't hurt that.

 

[SCP Guy]

I would try and move buff at the deadline, because he plays on the 3rd line put has 1st line trade value. I would target 1st line scorers/2nd line scorers.

You don't really think Buff could play on the first line of a playoff team do you? I have my doubts he can ever be a first pair defenseman never mind a top line player.

 

[Gil Fisher]

You don't really think Buff could play on the first line of a playoff team do you? I have my doubts he can ever be a first pair defenseman never mind a top line player.

I think he's definitely shown to be a top pairing D-man. And I'd bet there's more than a few GM's who feel the same way.

 

[almostawake]

Haha, no.

I was actually on my way in here to ask what you guys think it would take to get Burmistrov.

I was think of something along the lines of Schroeder (one year older, 2" smaller but in the NHL now and it's early to say he won't be as good as AB) and Jannik Hansen for Burmistrov and a decent draft pick..

But I dreamed that up thinking you guys had worked your way into a better playoff position.

Still, everything I read about the Jets is that the big problem with the forward group is depth, and getting two middle six guys right now sure couldn't hurt that.

IMO opinion there really isn't a way Burmistrov would be moved if it is just a team coming to the Jets and asking for him. The only way I see him being moved is if the Jets go to a team looking for a specific player and the other team really wants Burmistrov.

As far as your offer goes, I'd be surprised if the Jets had any interest in Schroeder. Everything the Jets organization has said and done to this point indicates they value size very highly, especially in the Bottom 6. Hansen is the type of guy the Jets are probably interested in for their 3rd line depth, but if given the choice of parting with Burmistrov, or trying to find a similar guy in FA or for picks at the draft (like Frolik) I don't see them going the Burmistrov route.

Having said that, there are members of the Jets organization super familiar with both the players you mentioned so it is entirely possible strong, highly personal, opinions could come into it. But overall I have trouble imagining a deal like that going down.

 

[almostawake]

I would try and move buff at the deadline, because he plays on the 3rd line put has 1st line trade value. I would target 1st line scorers/2nd line scorers.

Trying to move a guy with two years left to run at a 5M+ cap hit at the deadline drastically reduces the number of bidding teams.

If the goal is to get good value for Byfuglien that needs to be done around the draft. No serious contending team in a tight cap situation is going to ship out roster players at the deadline and disrupt their roster to make Byfuglien work.

Are all teams in that cap situation, no. But enough teams that would be interested in Byfuglien are, and hence it is poor strategy for the Jets to make a point of moving him then. If a team comes along and throws crazy assets at the Jets, great, make a move. But the fact of the matter is at the draft there will be at least twice as many teams able to bid on Byfuglien than at the trade deadline.

 

[surixon]

Trying to move a guy with two years left to run at a 5M+ cap hit at the deadline drastically reduces the number of bidding teams.

If the goal is to get good value for Byfuglien that needs to be done around the draft. No serious contending team in a tight cap situation is going to ship out roster players at the deadline and disrupt their roster to make Byfuglien work.

Are all teams in that cap situation, no. But enough teams that would be interested in Byfuglien are, and hence it is poor strategy for the Jets to make a point of moving him then. If a team comes along and throws crazy assets at the Jets, great, make a move. But the fact of the matter is at the draft there will be at least twice as many teams able to bid on Byfuglien than at the trade deadline.

I agree with this! I don't see him moving until the draft, but a team like Philly may come around at the deadline and offer something pretty substantial.

 

[Gil Fisher]

There are drawbacks to waiting for the draft. Teams have many avenues open to improving the team in the Summer and can convince themselves that waiting on an FA or two might be the way to go. Teams also seem to value picks more in the days before the draft than they do at the trade deadline.

I think the best potential deal (if the Jets don't care about getting a roster player back) would be available at the deadline, but it might not materialize.

 

[Hansen Brother]

Having looked around, the most logical destination I can find for Buff is Philly. Braden Schenn is a bit redundant there with Giroux, Vinny, and Couturier. Something around those two would be ideal I think.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Having looked around, the most logical destination I can find for Buff is Philly. Braden Schenn is a bit redundant there with Giroux, Vinny, and Couturier. Something around those two would be ideal I think.

If this happened, I'd like to try to move Schenn to Chicago, who needs that #2C, and nab Teravainen.

I think Boston would benefit the most from Byfuglien, but I can't build an attractive return. I also like Pitt as a destination, targeting Bennett and a couple of young LHD (Despres, Harrington).

 

[Gil Fisher]

So, we have Coyotes at home, at Nashville, and NYI at home leading up to the trade deadline. Probably the worst scenario for the Jets as they have a good chance of being in a playoff position.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

So, we have Coyotes at home, at Nashville, and NYI at home leading up to the trade deadline. Probably the worst scenario for the Jets as they have a good chance of being in a playoff position.

those words, i don't think you know what they mean

 

[Gil Fisher]

those words, i don't think you know what they mean

I don't want to be a fringe playoff team. We need to focus on becoming a top 4 team in the West. Being in a playoff position or just outside distracts from that goal.

 

[scelaton]

I don't want to be a fringe playoff team. We need to focus on becoming a top 4 team in the West. Being in a playoff position or just outside distracts from that goal.

I'd give my eye teeth to be a fringe playoff team. Fringe playoff teams with a streak of hot goaltending (something Pavs is known for) and a little bit of luck can win a round or two. Everybody--fans and players alike--would benefit from that experience.
There is plenty of time to make the magical trade. More than likely we won't do anything more than 'fringe' trades before the deadline, then do some serious work in the off season.
That'd be fine with me.

 

[KingBogo]

I don't want to be a fringe playoff team. We need to focus on becoming a top 4 team in the West. Being in a playoff position or just outside distracts from that goal.

How does getting into the playoffs distract from becoming a top 4 team in the west? More than anything this team needs to experience some success, and getting into the playoffs would be a first step. Dishing a couple UFA's for a couple mid-range picks won't go nearly as far as some playoff experience would go.

 

[Bob E]

I'd give my eye teeth to be a fringe playoff team. Fringe playoff teams with a streak of hot goaltending (something Pavs is known for) and a little bit of luck can win a round or two. Everybody--fans and players alike--would benefit from that experience.
There is plenty of time to make the magical trade. More than likely we won't do anything more than 'fringe' trades before the deadline, then do some serious work in the off season.
That'd be fine with me.

Agree, scelaton.

Boys need a taste of playoff hockey, that would be very positive in their development. And is part of the development.

 

[Jet]

I'd give my eye teeth to be a fringe playoff team. Fringe playoff teams with a streak of hot goaltending (something Pavs is known for) and a little bit of luck can win a round or two. Everybody--fans and players alike--would benefit from that experience.
There is plenty of time to make the magical trade. More than likely we won't do anything more than 'fringe' trades before the deadline, then do some serious work in the off season.
That'd be fine with me.

Sometimes they win it all. It's still going to be hard for us to make the playoffs, but we are exactly the kind of team that can do some serious damage if we get there. If we played St. Louis we could definitely win that series. Hell, we play the Ducks strong too.

We are using our size, speed and skill to our advantage for the first time now that we have PMo. If we could get a hot goalie we could go on a Oiler 2006 run easily.