Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 20 - Second line centre edition?

[Pickles]

Only in your biased view.

And you aren't biased? I'm sorry if facts spoil your narrative but yes both players were pushed aside for local players.

 

[Pickles]

No, they just drafted guys who were not very good!

Both things can be true:

Habs suck at drafting.
Habs suck at development.

 

[Captain97]

It's up to Kotkaniemi to prove that he wants it. If he shows up to camp at the same or similar weight, well we know how the story's going to end at that point.

I'm rather skeptical of his progression. Right now I think it's fair to say he's trending for a 3rd line role. At best.

How much weight do you expect him to put on over 2 months? Or are you comparing his weight from last camp to this one? Cause with the condensed season he prbly didn't have too much intense gym time this past year.

I expect him to be heavier but it won't be too significant.

 

[Habs Icing]

Scotty Bowman's high praise of Kotkaniemi included comparisons to Habs legend - Article - BARDOWN

also might want to check out Scotty Bowman's take... maybe you can educate him as well about how little he knows of things like vision

In that tweet, Scotty Bowman predicted that by around 22 KK will be the #1 centerman for Montreal. (We'll make no mention of the outlandish comparison to JB.)That's only one year away. In one year's time, we'll find out two things. If Scotty was right about KK and if advanced age erodes a person's mental acumen. Scotty was 85 when he made that declaration. I'll bet you he would take a mulligan if we'd offer him one.

 

[Pickles]

In that tweet, Scotty Bowman predicted that by around 22 KK will be the #1 centerman for Montreal. (We'll make no mention of the outlandish comparison to JB.)That's only one year away. In one year's time, we'll find out two things. If Scotty was right about KK and if advanced age erodes a person's mental acumen. Scotty was 85 when he made that declaration. I'll bet you he would take a mulligan if we'd offer him one.

So you're doubting the great Scotty Bowman now? He's forgotten more about hockey than you'll ever know. You must have a real hate on for this kid,

 

[Habs Icing]

So you're doubting the great Scotty Bowman now? He's forgotten more about hockey than you'll ever know. You must have a real hate on for this kid,

Actually, I like the kid. I just don't buy all the hype about the hockey player. As for Scotty Bowman's greatness, there was another great hockey mind, Toe Blake, who fought Jacques Plante about using a mask. Scotty, like Blake, is not infallible. Anyway, we'll let Scotty's words speak for themselves. Let's wait till KK is 22 and see if he becomes a #1 center.

 

[Miller Time]

In that tweet, Scotty Bowman predicted that by around 22 KK will be the #1 centerman for Montreal. (We'll make no mention of the outlandish comparison to JB.)That's only one year away. In one year's time, we'll find out two things. If Scotty was right about KK and if advanced age erodes a person's mental acumen. Scotty was 85 when he made that declaration. I'll bet you he would take a mulligan if we'd offer him one.

really? you are that attached to this awful take you have about JKO that you'd rather disparage the mental acuity of one of the greatest hockey coaching minds in history than admit your take is deeply flawed?

would he change his opinion that by the 2022-23 season, JKO is Montreal's #1 C? Probably. Nick Suzuki has more to do with that than anything else (let alone if we make a move for Eichel). Though Scotty (and any other competent person) would obviously have made that comment speaking more to the caliber of player JKO could/would become than the specific role on a given teams depth chart he would play in 3-4 years time... Roster change, that's obvious, and he didn't suggest that JKO would be the #1C in the league now did he...

JKO turns 22 next summer. Will he be playing at the caliber of one of the top 30-40C's in the league by the 2022-23 season? it's ambitious, sure, but also well within the reach of his abilities/potential should he continue to progress physically and be playing for a team supporting his success.

The point that Bowman was obviously making is that he saw significant talent and potential in the player. Talent and potential that some in this thread are completely blind to. Talent and potential that some of us have been pointing to and articulating without appealing to the authority of a proven talent evaluator like Bowman... though i admit that it's nice to see that my assessment is shared by someone with a pretty strong proof of competency in making such assessments.

but hey, stick to the "he'll never be more than a 3rd line C", "he sucks and has no vision", "bowman is mentally deficient" narrative

 

[salbutera]

In that tweet, Scotty Bowman predicted that by around 22 KK will be the #1 centerman for Montreal. (We'll make no mention of the outlandish comparison to JB.)That's only one year away. In one year's time, we'll find out two things. If Scotty was right about KK and if advanced age erodes a person's mental acumen. Scotty was 85 when he made that declaration. I'll bet you he would take a mulligan if we'd offer him one.

To be fair about comparing to Le Gros Bill, Scotty even qualified it on Melnick’s show : was more to do about the similar physical stature (size & lankiness) of both at a similar young age.

Scotty said he was not insinuating KK has similar dominating talent, but his physical makeup & awkward skating reminded him of Beliveau

 

[Garbageyuk]

really? you are that attached to this awful take you have about JKO that you'd rather disparage the mental acuity of one of the greatest hockey coaching minds in history than admit your take is deeply flawed?

would he change his opinion that by the 2022-23 season, JKO is Montreal's #1 C? Probably. Nick Suzuki has more to do with that than anything else (let alone if we make a move for Eichel). Though Scotty (and any other competent person) would obviously have made that comment speaking more to the caliber of player JKO could/would become than the specific role on a given teams depth chart he would play in 3-4 years time... Roster change, that's obvious, and he didn't suggest that JKO would be the #1C in the league now did he...

JKO turns 22 next summer. Will he be playing at the caliber of one of the top 30-40C's in the league by the 2022-23 season? it's ambitious, sure, but also well within the reach of his abilities/potential should he continue to progress physically and be playing for a team supporting his success.

The point that Bowman was obviously making is that he saw significant talent and potential in the player. Talent and potential that some in this thread are completely blind to. Talent and potential that some of us have been pointing to and articulating without appealing to the authority of a proven talent evaluator like Bowman... though i admit that it's nice to see that my assessment is shared by someone with a pretty strong proof of competency in making such assessments.

but hey, stick to the "he'll never be more than a 3rd line C", "he sucks and has no vision", "bowman is mentally deficient" narrative

KK's lack of progress isn't a "take". It's a fact, and an unfortunate one. It's more than fair to be concerned at this point.

 

[Naslund]

Can't believe people's view on KK. Was an integral part of the our run to the finals. Scores more 5vs5 goals than CC and Suzuki, while being younger. KK can put 25G and 55a next year and people would still shit on him.

 

[Garbageyuk]

ITT: anyone who doesn't believe KK is going to spontaneously turn into Anze Kopitar is labelled a hater. The posters who like to live in fantasy land are always the ones shitting on, and trashing the player the hardest when the bubble pops. Then they have the memory of a goldfish and conveniently "forget" all of their previous ludicrous predictions and expectations regarding the player. Seen it so many times with various prospects on here over the years - Andrei Kostitsyn was going to be a 50 goal scorer, AG was going to be 90+ point center, Tinordi was the next Chris Pronger, etc. Yes, those are all real predictions from HF Habs.

 

[Naslund]

ITT: anyone who doesn't believe KK is going to spontaneously turn into Anze Kopitar is labelled a hater. The posters who like to live in fantasy land are always the ones shitting on, and trashing the player the hardest when the bubble pops. Then they have the memory of a goldfish and conveniently "forget" all of their previous ludicrous predictions and expectations regarding the player. Seen it so many times with various prospects on here over the years - Andrei Kostitsyn was going to be a 50 goal scorer, AG was going to be 90+ point center, Tinordi was the next Chris Pronger, etc. Yes, those are all real predictions from HF Habs.

Live in the gray man. Life is not black and white.

 

[BLONG7]

ITT: anyone who doesn't believe KK is going to spontaneously turn into Anze Kopitar is labelled a hater. The posters who like to live in fantasy land are always the ones shitting on, and trashing the player the hardest when the bubble pops. Then they have the memory of a goldfish and conveniently "forget" all of their previous ludicrous predictions and expectations regarding the player. Seen it so many times with various prospects on here over the years - Andrei Kostitsyn was going to be a 50 goal scorer, AG was going to be 90+ point center, Tinordi was the next Chris Pronger, etc. Yes, those are all real predictions from HF Habs.

Cool story....

 

[BLONG7]

really? you are that attached to this awful take you have about JKO that you'd rather disparage the mental acuity of one of the greatest hockey coaching minds in history than admit your take is deeply flawed?

would he change his opinion that by the 2022-23 season, JKO is Montreal's #1 C? Probably. Nick Suzuki has more to do with that than anything else (let alone if we make a move for Eichel). Though Scotty (and any other competent person) would obviously have made that comment speaking more to the caliber of player JKO could/would become than the specific role on a given teams depth chart he would play in 3-4 years time... Roster change, that's obvious, and he didn't suggest that JKO would be the #1C in the league now did he...

JKO turns 22 next summer. Will he be playing at the caliber of one of the top 30-40C's in the league by the 2022-23 season? it's ambitious, sure, but also well within the reach of his abilities/potential should he continue to progress physically and be playing for a team supporting his success.

The point that Bowman was obviously making is that he saw significant talent and potential in the player. Talent and potential that some in this thread are completely blind to. Talent and potential that some of us have been pointing to and articulating without appealing to the authority of a proven talent evaluator like Bowman... though i admit that it's nice to see that my assessment is shared by someone with a pretty strong proof of competency in making such assessments.

but hey, stick to the "he'll never be more than a 3rd line C", "he sucks and has no vision", "bowman is mentally deficient" narrative

It does amaze me, how some posters, who are of the belief, they are smarter than the guys who have played, coached and managed actual NHL teams...
It's truly amazing....

 

[Garbageyuk]

Cool story....

I don't think it's cool. It's unfortunately true though.

 

[Naslund]

KK's lack of progress isn't a "take". It's a fact, and an unfortunate one. It's more than fair to be concerned at this point.

Imagine thinking KK has not progressed at all in the last three years.

 

[Kents polished head]

To be fair about comparing to Le Gros Bill, Scotty even qualified it on Melnick’s show : was more to do about the similar physical stature (size & lankiness) of both at a similar young age.

Scotty said he was not insinuating KK has similar dominating talent, but his physical makeup & awkward skating reminded him of Beliveau

CONTEXT. MATTERS.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Imagine thinking KK has not progressed at all in the last three years.

Tell me how he's progressed. Something tangible/verifiable...

 

[Kents polished head]

Imagine thinking KK has not progressed at all in the last three years.

Imagine thinking he has and being unable to back it up with anything other than "but his balance improved" when the guy falls on his ass more than half of the times he's engaged by an opponent, or "well his points per 60 minutes were good in the playoffs".

His coaches definitely didn't think highly of him. Neither Julien or Ducharme in fact. And his offensive numbers actually dropped since his rookie season. But yeah. There are a couple of HFBoards posters saying he improved his balance. So there's that.

 

[Ozmodiar]

It does amaze me, how some posters, who are of the belief, they are smarter than the guys who have played, coached and managed actual NHL teams...
It's truly amazing....

Yeah, we know the type ….

The kid has not been afforded the proper chance, pretty simple.
His development has been somewhat hindered by his own coaches, at times....

............so the coach needs to let this kid get on a line, and leave it.....the kid deserves that from his coach. 56 games............18 different line combos....

 

[Heffyhoof]

ITT: anyone who doesn't believe KK is going to spontaneously turn into Anze Kopitar is labelled a hater. The posters who like to live in fantasy land are always the ones shitting on, and trashing the player the hardest when the bubble pops. Then they have the memory of a goldfish and conveniently "forget" all of their previous ludicrous predictions and expectations regarding the player. Seen it so many times with various prospects on here over the years - Andrei Kostitsyn was going to be a 50 goal scorer, AG was going to be 90+ point center, Tinordi was the next Chris Pronger, etc. Yes, those are all real predictions from HF Habs.

If you believe someone called you a hater only because you don't think he's the second coming of Kopitar...

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

To be fair about comparing to Le Gros Bill, Scotty even qualified it on Melnick’s show : was more to do about the similar physical stature (size & lankiness) of both at a similar young age.

Scotty said he was not insinuating KK has similar dominating talent, but his physical makeup & awkward skating reminded him of Beliveau

This is ridiculous. Now KK is compared to Beliveau, by Scotty ! What's happening with Scotty?
Beliveau should be compared only with Mario Lemieux or someone of his rank.
KK hardly earning his spot in the nhl and his future is uncertain. I think he is still very young and unexpiremented. The next season will be tough, I hope he have character and stamina.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Yeah, we know the type ….

Lmao, love it. Well done.

 

[Kriss E]

I don't think it's cool. It's unfortunately true though.

I don't think KK is gonna turn into Kopitar and nobody ever called me a hater for it, so your take is definitely not true.
You're labeled a hater because you just constantly talk down about the kid.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I don't think KK is gonna turn into Kopitar and nobody ever called me a hater for it, so your take is definitely not true.
You're labeled a hater because you just constantly talk down about the kid.

I don't talk down about him. I state facts that people here don't like.