Tribute Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck part II

[ECWHSWI]

What would have been dumb is to have offered Aho 11 million and won the offer.

Why people can't grasp Bergevin's strategy is beyond me. He took a swing at getting a good player on a reasonable annual salary by front loading a contract in hopes that a notoriously cheap owner might balk at matching.

Offering RFA's well above market value is just bad asset management which is why you rarely see it. Dundon just made a low percentage gamble that may very well hurt his team solely for the sake of revenge.

It is hilarious that people believe they have some insight that would have won the rights to Aho by grossly overpaying for him as though MB never thought of that and is kicking himself for the oversight lol.......Bergevin is a quality GM and did not do that because it would have hurt the team.

I suspect a lot do understant the strategy, they also understant that if the offer is reasonnable, IT WILL be matched.

 

[GrandBison]

What would have been dumb is to have offered Aho 11 million and won the offer.

Why people can't grasp Bergevin's strategy is beyond me. He took a swing at getting a good player on a reasonable annual salary by front loading a contract in hopes that a notoriously cheap owner might balk at matching.

Offering RFA's well above market value is just bad asset management which is why you rarely see it. Dundon just made a low percentage gamble that may very well hurt his team solely for the sake of revenge.

It is hilarious that people believe they have some insight that would have won the rights to Aho by grossly overpaying for him as though MB never thought of that and is kicking himself for the oversight lol.......Bergevin is a quality GM and did not do that because it would have hurt the team.

I think it was all Molson to set the tone with Dundon as an owner (him not wanting to give bonuses, etc.). The thing that was badly miscalculated was the timing... Bergevin got handcuffed in the first week of free agency; Waddell waited after he signed Svechnikov, and I think if Habs would have signed KK, Canes would have OS Suzuki next year, as part of a revenge plan.

 

[The Great Weal]

Different players and contexts.

Every player is different...

You guys would be crying if we played KK wing this year and say that's why we ruined him when it's just complete nonsense to think that. Just like how it's complete nonsense saying that playing Galchenyuk at LW (which is easier than center) ruined him.

Yeah -- it will be "magic" if KK works out in Carolina.

Yes because that means he would have learned how to beat an NHL goalie with his shot consistently, skate, stay on his feet, solve his endurance issues and improve defensively all in a few months.

 

[DAChampion]

Yes because that means he would have learned how to beat an NHL goalie with his shot consistently, skate, stay on his feet, solve his endurance issues and improve defensively all in a few months.

Yeah if Kotkaniemi has any flaws he won't be a great player.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

The dude is known to operate all his businesses on the cheap, refuses bonus payments to employees.

That’s why both MB and Molson focused their PC on the bonus structure of Aho’s contract

Perhaps.But the only thing Bergevin did was to bring Dundon egos in

 

[The Great Weal]

Yeah if Kotkaniemi has any flaws he won't be a great player.

Which player that has way more flaws than strengths turned out to be a great player?

 

[Not The One]

Absolutely true. KK HAD to be kept as a Hab. ANd for that to happen, they had to do a MUCH better job at developing him. But once you realize how much you screwed up his development, you HAD to give him the 6,1M$ and you HAD to renegotiate when you could a 4X4. And giving him 6,1M$, in order to not look more stupid than they did, they would have HAD to put him in a position to succeed.

In no world that makes sense would getting rid of Danault means having to get rid of JK too. Makes 0 sense. The idea was to improve. You did not. Big fail. Again.

I'm sick of reading stuff like this. As if the Habs are somehow solely responsible for "developing" him and if shows no sign of actually improving in three years then it's all on them.

Same mindset with people who blame everybody but themselves for flunking out of university. The university will provide you with teachers and some may be worse than others but it's on you to work hard and study to learn and get better. KK averaged a C+ over three years here but now somehow he got a scholarship for Harvard. Good for him but no big loss for us.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Which player that has way more flaws than strengths turned out to be a great player?

Drouin but that day is in the future . I'm kidding.

 

[Whitesnake]

I'm sick of reading stuff like this. As if the Habs are somehow solely responsible for "developing" him and if shows no sign of actually improving in three years then it's all on them.

Same mindset with people who blame everybody but themselves for flunking out of university. The university will provide you with teachers and some may be worse than others but it's on you to work hard and study to learn and get better. KK averaged a C+ over three years here but now somehow he got a scholarship for Harvard. Good for him but no big loss for us.

Where to start...first...if ANYBODY around here knows me, they KNOW that I usually NEVER uses the development excuse....for anybody. For me, it's the head scout for the picks. And the GM for the trades. While there is a plethora of other stuff going on, if you can be succesful in those 2 spots, you will have a great team. But how about realizing what the JK development was all about?

Kid was picked 3rd. With that comes great responsability, great pressure and great expectations. A player that was nowwhere near a top 10 pick until the U-18. So what do we do with that? After calling this our centerman for years to come while he was drafted mostly a winger?

• We play him at C at 18 years old. Being one of the youngest 18 years old of the draft. By doing that, we tell him that he has arrived already. He's ready or else, he wouldn't be with us.
• He has a great start with us. Like quite a few kids that actually do have great starts till reality kicks in. What's the reality? Even greater expectations? Even greater responsabilities? And opponents that know you much better. Then it slows down, obviously.
• What do we go? We start moving him from out of the lineup, to C, to wings? How do we address it? By CONTINUALLY downplaying him even in better games. The same type of criticisms that Therrien used to do when he was laughing at Eller for not giving him a chance in the shootout 'cause you know the guy hasn't scored in weeks, while suggesting it would be a good thing to send Desharnais in the shootout 'cause you know...the guy hasn't scored in weeks.
• They clearly found JK to be cocky. And they hated it. YET, THEY CREATED THAT. With the way too fast graduation. With choosing him the 3rd overall. With pencilling him as FINALLY the next big thing on C for the next 15 years. A 18 year old.

Are you 18? What were you doing at 18? Were you pencilled to be the next big thing in your field? If not, you then have no idea how a kid or shouldn't take it. I know one thing, not everything was done to make sure he'd succeed. And he's now gone.

Not sure you read what you write. NO big loss for us? The guy that this management pencilled as our future at C. A 3rd overall pick. You know...the type of picks we can't have 'cause you can't tank in Montreal? And that's no big deal? lol. Does JK has his own issues to solve? Yeah. Is he the main reason why it didn't work out here? You know why? First, we could have shown him a greatest interest by signing him before a team gave him that contract?

So be tired as you want, this JK case is a CLEAR AND PERFECT example of shitty development no matter if we think the pick to begin with was good or bad. You want to discuss other players like McCarron, Tinord, Beaulieu and Co, be my guess, I might even agree with you, but in JK'case you need to be blind to not see it.

For starters..hwo about the f*** you REALLY know if the guy is a C or a winger. And then when that's done, call him up...you know...hockey 101.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I'm sick of reading stuff like this. As if the Habs are somehow solely responsible for "developing" him and if shows no sign of actually improving in three years then it's all on them.

Same mindset with people who blame everybody but themselves for flunking out of university. The university will provide you with teachers and some may be worse than others but it's on you to work hard and study to learn and get better. KK averaged a C+ over three years here but now somehow he got a scholarship for Harvard. Good for him but no big loss for us.

I agree with your overall message but there is blame to be shared on both sides.

Management contributed to his sense of entitlement by giving him too much too early. It is hard to say if things would be much better if he spent the first season in Finland and started his second season in the AHL. It can't be denied however that he has been given every chance to learn at the highest level and has sabotaged his own development by refusing to listen to the advice from the coaching staff.

There is no doubt that his attitude has sucked and perhaps a change of scenery and another year of maturity may change him for the better.

 

[HuGo Sham]

I agree with your overall message but there is blame to be shared on both sides.

Management contributed to his sense of entitlement by giving him too much too early. It is hard to say if things would be much better if he spent the first season in Finland and started his second season in the AHL. It can't be denied however that he has been given every chance to learn at the highest level and has sabotaged his own development by refusing to listen to the advice from the coaching staff.

There is no doubt that his attitude has sucked and perhaps a change of scenery and another year of maturity may change him for the better.

completely agree

 

[RC51]

wow wow wow, KK plays one pre game and 2 points, a goal and an assist. HE"S ON FIRE WOW. AT this rate 82 games= 82 goals and 82 points. WOW, what a steal on the Canes part, worst one sided steal in the history of ALL SPORTS.

 

[CauZuki]

You guys would be crying if we played KK wing this year and say that's why we ruined him when it's just complete nonsense to think that. Just like how it's complete nonsense saying that playing Galchenyuk at LW (which is easier than center) ruined him.

Yes because that means he would have learned how to beat an NHL goalie with his shot consistently, skate, stay on his feet, solve his endurance issues and improve defensively all in a few months.

Player not being consistent before the age of 21...Shocking.

This logic , I can't even...

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

This is an attempt at artful sarcasm or you're his agent.

Yeah subtle sarcasm. Not sure why people look at the trade as KK for Dvorak. We traded KK for Eric Staal with the way BargainBin & DumDum handled him after the trade. We turned prime rib into lemons then MB made lemonade and people are fooled into that being good asset mgmt. If they don’t screw around with their unsigned 3rd OA pick the way they did he’s still a Hab at a reasonable number AND you have the assets and cap space to still bring in Dvorak, it’s not either or it could’ve been both

 

[Habs Icing]

wow wow wow, KK plays one pre game and 2 points, a goal and an assist. HE"S ON FIRE WOW. AT this rate 82 games= 82 goals and 82 points. WOW, what a steal on the Canes part, worst one sided steal in the history of ALL SPORTS.

Wasn't the Dvorak trade a bigger steal? He got 4 points, didn't he?

 

[Redux91]

Oh my God.
Is that an Ignore Thread but---*click*

 

[PricerStopDaPuck]

Dvorak is gonna help us forget about him quickly. If the Canes really wanted to get us back they should’ve waited til next year and gave Suzuki an offersheet if negotiations took that long. I don’t see KK ever being more then a 3c or a very mediocre winger.

 

[cphabs]

Which player that has way more flaws than strengths turned out to be a great player?

Seriously?

 

[Heffyhoof]

Where to start...first...if ANYBODY around here knows me, they KNOW that I usually NEVER uses the development excuse....for anybody. For me, it's the head scout for the picks. And the GM for the trades. While there is a plethora of other stuff going on, if you can be succesful in those 2 spots, you will have a great team. But how about realizing what the JK development was all about?

Kid was picked 3rd. With that comes great responsability, great pressure and great expectations. A player that was nowwhere near a top 10 pick until the U-18. So what do we do with that? After calling this our centerman for years to come while he was drafted mostly a winger?

• We play him at C at 18 years old. Being one of the youngest 18 years old of the draft. By doing that, we tell him that he has arrived already. He's ready or else, he wouldn't be with us.
• He has a great start with us. Like quite a few kids that actually do have great starts till reality kicks in. What's the reality? Even greater expectations? Even greater responsabilities? And opponents that know you much better. Then it slows down, obviously.
• What do we go? We start moving him from out of the lineup, to C, to wings? How do we address it? By CONTINUALLY downplaying him even in better games. The same type of criticisms that Therrien used to do when he was laughing at Eller for not giving him a chance in the shootout 'cause you know the guy hasn't scored in weeks, while suggesting it would be a good thing to send Desharnais in the shootout 'cause you know...the guy hasn't scored in weeks.
• They clearly found JK to be cocky. And they hated it. YET, THEY CREATED THAT. With the way too fast graduation. With choosing him the 3rd overall. With pencilling him as FINALLY the next big thing on C for the next 15 years. A 18 year old.

Are you 18? What were you doing at 18? Were you pencilled to be the next big thing in your field? If not, you then have no idea how a kid or shouldn't take it. I know one thing, not everything was done to make sure he'd succeed. And he's now gone.

Not sure you read what you write. NO big loss for us? The guy that this management pencilled as our future at C. A 3rd overall pick. You know...the type of picks we can't have 'cause you can't tank in Montreal? And that's no big deal? lol. Does JK has his own issues to solve? Yeah. Is he the main reason why it didn't work out here? You know why? First, we could have shown him a greatest interest by signing him before a team gave him that contract?

So be tired as you want, this JK case is a CLEAR AND PERFECT example of shitty development no matter if we think the pick to begin with was good or bad. You want to discuss other players like McCarron, Tinord, Beaulieu and Co, be my guess, I might even agree with you, but in JK'case you need to be blind to not see it.

For starters..hwo about the f*** you REALLY know if the guy is a C or a winger. And then when that's done, call him up...you know...hockey 101.

10/10 would like if possible.

 

[Heffyhoof]

I suspect a lot do understant the strategy, they also understant that if the offer is reasonnable, IT WILL be matched.

Or in other words, how it was such a terrible 'strategy' there might as well have been none?

 

[DAChampion]

Seriously?

He's the master of strawmen and non sequiturs.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Dvorak is gonna help us forget about him quickly. If the Canes really wanted to get us back they should’ve waited til next year and gave Suzuki an offersheet if negotiations took that long. I don’t see KK ever being more then a 3c or a very mediocre winger.

I wouldn't rule out Suzuki getting an OS from Dundon.

If KK shits the bed and Carolina falls of a cliff due to injuries while Dvorak looks great and Montreal gets a lottery pick as compensation Dundon will be the laughing stock of the league and he may lash out again. I am not saying this is likely but to entirely assume Dundon won't do it again may be a mistake.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I guess you haven't kept up-to-date with the losses Carolina suffered in the off-season.

And we also lost the best dman in our fabled playoff run. Try again.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

KKs gonna put up points in Carolina. You guys better get used to it. I think Dvorak is better but still. The people acting like the kid is gonna be a total bust for Carolina are kidding themselves. Especially if he plays with other talented players that can produce points ( something that's seemingly impossible to have in Montreal )

 

[TomKosto]

Dvorak is here because we lost Danault... Without the offersheet of Carolina, he would still probably be acquired. We lost a former 3rd overall pick for a future late first rounder and a 3rd pick. This is not good asset management. Won't be surprised if he put 50pts this year.