Player Discussion Jeff Gorton Part II

[NYR]

He brought in Kessel, Lucic, Marchand, Rask, Chara and Savard. Pretty key pieces for that phase of the Bruins team. He was fired by someone who hired Chiarelli, so I wouldn’t put a ton of stock into that being a smart decision making process.

JD left the Blues in 2012 and they made the conference finals exactly once since then before they won in 2019. Bruins won a cup and lost in the cup finals in that same window after Gorton. Columbus has a single first round win since JD took over there.

I hope JD has a lot of success here snd he has a nice resume overall but imo Gorton has been instrumental to building by far the best team of the ones either guy has been involved in

Sorry but I'm looking at the overall picture and the impact JD vs JG have had on teams.

I put a ton of stock into JG being fired.
If he were such an asset, why would he be fired?

You don't know what an already established scouting staff in Boston had in place as far as players they were bringing in.

Blues..Look at the difference between before JD joined as opposed to after.
Same with Columbus.

All that said.. What has JG done HERE?

He blew up a winning team because he couldn't bring in the right players to get them over the top so he had no choice but to blow it up but let's not act like it wasn't because he didn't f*** it up.

Moving fwd to today.. He does have a team here and like a broken record, he brings in all the wrong players and retreads..Not a supporting cast.

Too add he also brings in a green coach who gets his ass handed to him nearly every single game.

How long does it take to identify a problem and nip it in the bud?

This guy just doesn't get it and can't wait until he's gone personally..

 

[NYR]

Quinn was hired in 2018
Davidson joined in 2019

Shoosh you.
You know the point I'm trying to make lol

 

[True Blue]

We are both off

Kreider extend Feb, 25 2019

JD hired May, 17 2019

Trouba trade June, 17 2019

Panarin July 1, 2019

Could put the self rent of Fast before or after, the kept before but let go after.

Whoops

 

[Off Sides]

Whoops

Me too, I thought they hired JD before the Kreider extension.

 

[NYR]

I think Gorton has won more than he has lost.

In an election if 6 out of 10 go your way, that's a landslide.

6 out of 10 is not winning you anything and a joke in my book.

 

[Yuck]

I get the Quinn bitching for day to day tactical complaining but I really don't understand this. I don't agree with everything JG has done but overall he has my support. Can't win all the hands you are dealt no matter how good you are and unlike many other GMs the guy sits at the table and makes moves. Did I miss a new letter that said we were competing for the cup this season or something?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Me too, I thought they hired JD before the Kreider extension.

Kreider got extended in '20. JD announced the signing at the same presser they spoke about the Buch, Igor car accident.

 

[Off Sides]

Kreider got extended in '20. JD announced the signing at the same presser they spoke about the Buch, Igor car accident.

Correct, so it was all JD

 

[bobbop]

6 out of 10 is not winning you anything and a joke in my book.

Apparently no one has sent you any money lately.

 

[haveandare]

Sorry but I'm looking at the overall picture and the impact JD vs JG have had on teams.

I put a ton of stock into JG being fired.
If he were such an asset, why would he be fired?

You don't know what an already established scouting staff in Boston had in place as far as players they were bringing in.

Blues..Look at the difference between before JD joined as opposed to after.
Same with Columbus.

All that said.. What has JG done HERE?

He blew up a winning team because he couldn't bring in the right players to get them over the top so he had no choice but to blow it up but let's not act like it wasn't because he didn't f*** it up.

Moving fwd to today.. He does have a team here and like a broken record, he brings in all the wrong players and retreads..Not a supporting cast.

Too add he also brings in a green coach who gets his ass handed to him nearly every single game.

How long does it take to identify a problem and nip it in the bud?

This guy just doesn't get it and can't wait until he's gone personally..

Again, the person that fired him also hired someone who was near universally regarded as a poor GM to replace him. The simple answer is people make dumb decisions. We can see what he did and what he did was bring in a huge chunk of the core of a very successful team in a very short time.

As for what he’s done here, he came in at the tail end of the teams window for competing, when they went three drafts with no firsts and two second round picks, and had the self awareness and courage to recognize that and tear it down so it could be built back up. We’ll see the results in a few yesrs and be able to judge them. Todsy they’re not on a different path than any rebuilding team before them, including the ones that turned into champions

 

[NYR]

Apparently no one has sent you any money lately.

It's all good.
I happen to make a very good living lol.
You on the other hand are just looking at things from the position.
A similar one in which you held?
But with your lackadaisical look on things I'd be surprised if you had much success either

 

[NYR]

Again, the person that fired him also hired someone who was near universally regarded as a poor GM to replace him. The simple answer is people make dumb decisions. We can see what he did and what he did was bring in a huge chunk of the core of a very successful team in a very short time.

As for what he’s done here, he came in at the tail end of the teams window for competing, when they went three drafts with no firsts and two second round picks, and had the self awareness and courage to recognize that and tear it down so it could be built back up. We’ll see the results in a few yesrs and be able to judge them. Todsy they’re not on a different path than any rebuilding team before them, including the ones that turned into champions

Listen..I can totally appreciate the positive side of things and I do have patience when it comes to the kids.

What I have a problem with is the dumb 101 stuff that's never addressed.
System, coach, style of play, center depth.

He's been here for a long time and signs a lot of dumb contacts and brings in waiver fodder.

That's the stuff I have no tolerance for.

If you bring in someone, have a specific purpose and role for said player.
If you bring in a coach, have a specific system and gameplan that's going to compete with the rest of the league.

I can be patient with the rest so I don't think it's an unreasonable ask.

Just common sense..

 

[bobbop]

It's all good.
I happen to make a very good living lol.
You on the other hand are just looking at things from the position.
A similar one in which you held?
But with your lackadaisical look on things I'd be surprised if you had much success either

I made the playoffs every year.

 

[NYR]

I made the playoffs every year.

I'm sincerely glad to hear.

What I do not get is how someone from the position can accept how an original 6 team is currently being constructed by this GM.

I find it disturbing at the very least.

All you have to do is look at half the roster that plays on LI.
They're in 1st place.

How do you explain that??

 

[bobbop]

I'm sincerely glad to hear.

What I do not get is how someone from the position can accept how an original 6 team is currently being constructed by this GM.

I find it disturbing at the very least.

All you have to do is look at half the roster on LI.

How do you explain that??

I'm not entirely thrilled with Gorton. I also remember that he took over a team where Sather before him and even himself in his early years pushed chips into the middle of the table to try and win a Cup. The Rangers got very close. At some point the bill comes due for those deals. And the salary cap was and still is a mess.

Rebuilding is an art. Gorton was able to sign elite talent with Panarin, always the toughest part of a rebuild. 30 other teams would have gladly made the Trouba trade. The deals for Zibanejad, Strome, Fox and Lindgren were flat out steals. Three of their top four defensemen on the Rangers currently have played less than 100 games in the NHL.

I still think that by the end of this year, the Rangers will be in/close to a playoff position. They have $15-20 MM in cap space opening up this summer and the young players will have a year of experience under their belt. Overall, I'll take that situation over some of the other currently contending teams.

 

[NYR]

I'm not entirely thrilled with Gorton. I also remember that he took over a team where Sather before him and even himself in his early years pushed chips into the middle of the table to try and win a Cup. The Rangers got very close. At some point the bill comes due for those deals. And the salary cap was and still is a mess.

Rebuilding is an art. Gorton was able to sign elite talent with Panarin, always the toughest part of a rebuild. 30 other teams would have gladly made the Trouba trade. The deals for Zibanejad, Strome, Fox and Lindgren were flat out steals. Three of their top four defensemen on the Rangers currently have played less than 100 games in the NHL.

I still think that by the end of this year, the Rangers will be in/close to a playoff position. They have $15-20 MM in cap space opening up this summer and the young players will have a year of experience under their belt. Overall, I'll take that situation over some of the other currently contending teams.

Great post, Man and I can get on board with a lot of it but what about this coaching staff?
JG went to the dollar store in one of the most important aspects of the game.
There's no denying that so why don't he fix it already?

 

[Cag29]

I'm sincerely glad to hear.

What I do not get is how someone from the position can accept how an original 6 team is currently being constructed by this GM.

Great post, Man and I can get on board with a lot of it but what about this coaching staff?
JG went to the dollar store in one of the most important aspects of the game.
There's no denying that so why don't he fix it already?

who would you want as coach?

I find it disturbing at the very least.

All you have to do is look at half the roster on LI.

How do you explain that??

 

[Sayba]

I'm not entirely thrilled with Gorton. I also remember that he took over a team where Sather before him and even himself in his early years pushed chips into the middle of the table to try and win a Cup. The Rangers got very close. At some point the bill comes due for those deals. And the salary cap was and still is a mess.

Rebuilding is an art. Gorton was able to sign elite talent with Panarin, always the toughest part of a rebuild. 30 other teams would have gladly made the Trouba trade. The deals for Zibanejad, Strome, Fox and Lindgren were flat out steals. Three of their top four defensemen on the Rangers currently have played less than 100 games in the NHL.

I still think that by the end of this year, the Rangers will be in/close to a playoff position. They have $15-20 MM in cap space opening up this summer and the young players will have a year of experience under their belt. Overall, I'll take that situation over some of the other currently contending teams.

Do you really believe 30 teams would have given Trouba 8 million? We traded a 21 I believe for him, so apparently there was at least 19 who weren't willing.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Sorry but I'm looking at the overall picture and the impact JD vs JG have had on teams.

I put a ton of stock into JG being fired.
If he were such an asset, why would he be fired?

You don't know what an already established scouting staff in Boston had in place as far as players they were bringing in.

Blues..Look at the difference between before JD joined as opposed to after.
Same with Columbus.

All that said.. What has JG done HERE?

He blew up a winning team because he couldn't bring in the right players to get them over the top so he had no choice but to blow it up but let's not act like it wasn't because he didn't f*** it up.

Moving fwd to today.. He does have a team here and like a broken record, he brings in all the wrong players and retreads..Not a supporting cast.

Too add he also brings in a green coach who gets his ass handed to him nearly every single game.

How long does it take to identify a problem and nip it in the bud?

This guy just doesn't get it and can't wait until he's gone personally..

Uh, you mean the scouting staff that Gorton was the director of? If you wanna criticize the dude, then fine and I'll even agree with you on certain things. But at least have some inkling of an idea about what did and did not happen. Trying to deny that Gorton played a significant role in the group BOS built is just blatantly being wrong out of spite and dislike for the guy.

 

[Scott r]

Sorry but I'm looking at the overall picture and the impact JD vs JG have had on teams.

I put a ton of stock into JG being fired.
If he were such an asset, why would he be fired?

You don't know what an already established scouting staff in Boston had in place as far as players they were bringing in.

Blues..Look at the difference between before JD joined as opposed to after.
Same with Columbus.

All that said.. What has JG done HERE?

He blew up a winning team because he couldn't bring in the right players to get them over the top so he had no choice but to blow it up but let's not act like it wasn't because he didn't f*** it up.

Moving fwd to today.. He does have a team here and like a broken record, he brings in all the wrong players and retreads..Not a supporting cast.

Too add he also brings in a green coach who gets his ass handed to him nearly every single game.

How long does it take to identify a problem and nip it in the bud?

This guy just doesn't get it and can't wait until he's gone personally..

One of the best posts on these boards, I agree 100 percent

 

[ETTER DE]

Sorry but I'm looking at the overall picture and the impact JD vs JG have had on teams.

I put a ton of stock into JG being fired.
If he were such an asset, why would he be fired?

You don't know what an already established scouting staff in Boston had in place as far as players they were bringing in.

Blues..Look at the difference between before JD joined as opposed to after.
Same with Columbus.

All that said.. What has JG done HERE?

He blew up a winning team because he couldn't bring in the right players to get them over the top so he had no choice but to blow it up but let's not act like it wasn't because he didn't f*** it up.

Moving fwd to today.. He does have a team here and like a broken record, he brings in all the wrong players and retreads..Not a supporting cast.

Too add he also brings in a green coach who gets his ass handed to him nearly every single game.

How long does it take to identify a problem and nip it in the bud?

This guy just doesn't get it and can't wait until he's gone personally..

Those who dont agree with the bolded part have to live in a parallel universe.

 

[JHS]

I can go either way with Gordon. He’s found some decent free agents and seems to have a knack for finding low profile but effective bottom 6 NHL forwards. My main concern, moving forward, is his ability to manage all these young guys who will have contracts coming due at around the same time. My real concern is this situation will need to be planned well in advance! The Rangers can’t be right up against the cap and then have Laf, Kappo, Miller, Kratsov, Shesty etc all be looking for big deals. That’s going to make these next few years really a puzzle piece. I kind of look at this team as having 2 distinct windows. The next few seasons being one of them( because all these guys are under contract now at reasonable money) and the next few years right after this wave of new contracts goes through.

Yes I’m assuming all these guys develop into serious money earners but, I sure do hope someone in the front office is projecting this scenario against the cap. If the NHL is actually going to have a flat cap for the next 4 seasons then this makes the Rangers a very interesting situation.

 

[NYR]

Uh, you mean the scouting staff that Gorton was the director of? If you wanna criticize the dude, then fine and I'll even agree with you on certain things. But at least have some inkling of an idea about what did and did not happen. Trying to deny that Gorton played a significant role in the group BOS built is just blatantly being wrong out of spite and dislike for the guy.

I'm not going to say he did nothing but just to clarify, he was the director or scouting or the director of scouting information?
Because one is a real job and the other is a glorified secretary for scouts.
That and he lasted as GM for all of what..4 months?

All that said, who gives a flying shit what he did for the Bruins.

We're about to lose the season entirely if he doesn't make some changes so how about starting with the obvious?

 

[tailgunner]

I was a big Gorton fan until the TDA fiasco
I can;t stand Lou L and his dinosaur ways, but would Lou ever do something so stupid as to go on a press conference and announce to the world "tony has played his last game as a Ranger"

Now Gorton can't get a bag of pucks for TDA because of his stupidity
I dont know what hockey you guys watch but TDA was a huge huge piece of what the Rangers did last season
This season without him and you can see how inept we are offensively and on the PP
The rebuild has hit a brick wall because of Quinn and Gorton's handling of TDA

 

[Off Sides]

I was a big Gorton fan until the TDA fiasco
I can;t stand Lou L and his dinosaur ways, but would Lou ever do something so stupid as to go on a press conference and announce to the world "tony has played his last game as a Ranger"

Now Gorton can't get a bag of pucks for TDA because of his stupidity
I dont know what hockey you guys watch but TDA was a huge huge piece of what the Rangers did last season
This season without him and you can see how inept we are offensively and on the PP
The rebuild has hit a brick wall because of Quinn and Gorton's handling of TDA

I was a big ADA proponent, and I agree that his play offensively was a catalyst for the Rangers often enough he was of value on ice.

I'll also agree the "played last game as a Ranger" was silly. I have no idea why they need to announce anything like that. (I'm not even sure why they needed a letter to rebuild, why not just do it?)

Yet even with that I have to come to a non concrete understanding that whatever ADA was doing must have been causing major issues, or else the Rangers would not have done what they did. I also believe the Rangers must have been trying pretty hard to move ADA before.

My only remaining question would be why then did they go two years instead of just taking him to arbitration for a 1 year award? My best guess, they figured ADA was reformed enough they believed he would be worth more on the trade market with a two year deal, and/or they did not want to air the dirty laundry in an award hearing.

As far as the rebuilding hitting a wall, I'd put that much more on their insistence to try to accelerate the rebuild which has left the roster somewhere in the middle of "we have some expensive players who could compete in the playoffs, but they are aging, and we have a bunch of youth that is not ready for that" Which leaves them in the position of "what do we do now, build around the first group or second group?