Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[OkimLom]

A general problem I have with both Botts and GMTM: They both tried to design teams with styles that were en vouge at that very moment instead of seeing where the league was headed and getting ahead of the curve. That is how Bellicheck and the Patriots are so successful: when teams throughout the league are copying X they go in the opposite direction. We will never get anywhere until we start doing things that get us ahead of the curve, which is why the idea we apparently don't even have an analytics department is so depressing: It means we are behind the curve. If Kreuger forces the organization to go in a more progressive direction than he has already done more good for this organization than every coach since Lindy combined.

Well, the problem with Murray was he changed directions because his coach wasn't mentally equipped to handle a team Murray primarily wanted to build. So He decided to go with the speed game his coach was familiar with, and less on the the heavier puck controlled team that he envisioned when he acquired Fasching, Kane, Bogosian, and ROR. Once he switched that was it. The type of team that Murray wanted we saw that result in the Stanley Cup final this year.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

the saviours of sports in wny. I swore off the Bills when the hired Ryan and haven’t looked back. The Sabres are a tougher habit to kick. But I may need to for my sanity.

Sabres fans are still stuck trying to figure out this Monkey Paw.

• "We want good centers." Wish granted, now watch Drury and Briere leave at the same time while you have to pay Thomas Vanek $7M/year or risk looking incompetent.
• "We want stable, independently wealthy owners." Wish granted. Now endure years of poor management as learn on the job and refuse to hire competent leaders.
• "We need to land a big name UFA." Wish granted, Ville Leino will learn how to play center under the weight of that contract.
• "We need a Selke calibre, two way center." Wish granted, now watch Botterill trade him for a giraffe on skates!
• "We need a franchise center and a franchise defenseman." Wish granted. Now watch as you surround them with terrible depth and waste their years away with poor coaching.

With all 5 fingers curled up, perhaps we are entering a new era.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Well, the problem with Murray was he changed directions because his coach wasn't mentally equipped to handle a team Murray primarily wanted to build. So He decided to go with the speed game his coach was familiar with, and less on the the heavier puck controlled team that he envisioned when he acquired Fasching, Kane, Bogosian, and ROR. Once he switched that was it. The type of team that Murray wanted we saw that result in the Stanley Cup final this year.

If Murray would have just fired Bylsma we would be so much better off today.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

I dont doubt that. I just think Botterill will always be holding this franchise back. I hope to be proven wrong, but to be blunt, I'm not sure you will find many GMs who have had a worst 2-year start than Botterill...and that's extremely worrisome, especially considering we have Eichel and Dahlin. The ****ing potential to be great is set. I dont think there's a more enticing center and defenseman combo in the league.

My fear is 5 years from now we will still be cleaning up Botterill's mess, and seriously reminiscing on how great those 5 years could have been if we had someone competent in charge. We're just wasting time with Botterill.

Yikes. You didn't mean Murray, did you?

This can't be said enough.

Botts could do absolutely nothing with the roster except sign the RFAs... You have Dahlin with a year's experience, Montour /Pilut for a full season, hopefully some developmentt from Mitt, the additions of Olofsson/Smith maybe Nylander & Borgen too. With a NHL calibre coach they are in the mix for the playoffs at the least IMO.

It's almost like the team is way different from last season already

 

[OkimLom]

If Murray would have just fired Bylsma we would be so much better off today.

IMO, we would as we were already on a path to building a team than what we have been doing these 2 offseasons. He had his short term issues with filling Rochester but I didn’t think it would be a long term issue.

However, the guy wouldn’t fix a terrible situation at the head coaching position, and that’s something I can’t forgive. It was obvious to everyone. That part wasn’t going to get better.

He made his bed, no excuse for that mess.

 

[Ace]

I can’t listen to one more analyst come on wgr and say “I think Botterill wants to see what they can do with a new coach”

...

Is player evaluation not a thing?

What the f*** does Botterill do all day?

I hope every free agent laughs in his face until he gets it through his giant head that HE HAS TO CLEAR THE DEAD WEIGHT ON THIS TEAM FIRST

 

[Chainshot]

I haven't liked the job he's done so far, but I don't think they'd be better off with Murray in charge. I never got the vibe that he was interested in the mental well-being of his players and there seemed to be a lot of "boys will be boys" permissiveness going on. With some of the rumblings about stuff in the room... it's possible they would be sending him packing at this point.

Granted, if he had brought in a better coach than Bylsma to start off with, or sacked him when it was apparent he needed to go... maybe some of the issues come to light sooner and get solved. We'll never know. It's been almost a constant string of worst-case outcomes now for years.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I can’t listen to one more analyst come on wgr and say “I think Botterill wants to see what they can do with a new coach”

...

Is player evaluation not a thing?

What the **** does Botterill do all day?

I hope every free agent laughs in his face until he gets it through his giant head that HE HAS TO CLEAR THE DEAD WEIGHT ON THIS TEAM FIRST

Botterill needed to do that before trading O'Reilly.

 

[Ace]

Well...I go two ways on this.

On one hand the worst we could be was still terrible like we are but at least Murray wouldn’t have been boringly sitting back to pretend to evaluate talent.

On the other he almost certainly wouldn’t have finished last as he’d have felt pressure to get more for the roster two years ago and we wouldn’t have Dahlin.

So I guess we wouldn’t be better off long term with Murray...but my belief in the franchise wouldn’t be at an all time low now

 

[Ace]

Botterill needed to do that before trading O'Reilly.

Like a third of it came from the return on that trade.

 

[Chainshot]

I am tired of strongly disliking the front office of this team and with it ownership for a dozen years or more now.

I do, truly, want to like what they do.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Anyone think Botterill went into the 2017/18 season saying I need to see this group under a new coach. Saw them finish last under Housley and decided to tear it down. Then a year later decided Housley was a bad coach?

Oops.

 

[Chainshot]

Anyone think Botterill went into the 2017/18 season saying I need to see this group under a new coach. Saw them finish last under Housley and decided to tear it down. Then a year later decided Housley was a bad coach?

Oops.

None of his moves indicate a "tear it down". He's shuffled bits around, like he's sorting deckchairs on the Titanic, but I get no sense of him actually doing the asset management style tear down. He excised some personalities, certainly, which may not have been harmonious in the room, but again, winning games tends to make for a happy room. He sowed the seeds with his "evaluating" and the hiring of Housley. We are reaping that bitter harvest now.

 

[Moncton man]

Setting the O'Reilly trade aside * I know, I know a big item but still... apart from Skinner and Montour moves, the guys he has brought in are fringe guys for the most part. Not really guys that you want to solidly build around your core players with. Hopefully this year he finds those extras and a few of the farm hands step up too. Then Ralph molds them into a group better than the sum of it's parts. One can hope, right?

 

[SabresFan26]

Setting the O'Reilly trade aside * I know, I know a big item but still... apart from Skinner and Montour moves, the guys he has brought in are fringe guys for the most part. Not really guys that you want to solidly build around your core players with. Hopefully this year he finds those extras and a few of the farm hands step up too. Then Ralph molds them into a group better than the sum of it's parts. One can hope, right?

He also waited for some bad cap to expire. He was dealt an awful cap situation and has had to undo many issues and unfortunately it’s not an overnight process.

Going to be tough to get UFAs to sign here. Trades are likely are best option value wise. We also need some of the young pups to step up this year.

 

[ForsbergMoDo21]

Sabres fans are still stuck trying to figure out this Monkey Paw.

• "We want good centers." Wish granted, now watch Drury and Briere leave at the same time while you have to pay Thomas Vanek $7M/year or risk looking incompetent.
• "We want stable, independently wealthy owners." Wish granted. Now endure years of poor management as learn on the job and refuse to hire competent leaders.
• "We need to land a big name UFA." Wish granted, Ville Leino will learn how to play center under the weight of that contract.
• "We need a Selke calibre, two way center." Wish granted, now watch Botterill trade him for a giraffe on skates!
• "We need a franchise center and a franchise defenseman." Wish granted. Now watch as you surround them with terrible depth and waste their years away with poor coaching.

With all 5 fingers curled up, perhaps we are entering a new era.

Shouldn’t this have come with a free frogurt at least?

 

[Captain Holt]

Shouldn’t this have come with a free frogurt at least?

The frogurt is also cursed

 

[kirby11]

I can’t listen to one more analyst come on wgr and say “I think Botterill wants to see what they can do with a new coach”

...

Is player evaluation not a thing?

What the **** does Botterill do all day?

I hope every free agent laughs in his face until he gets it through his giant head that HE HAS TO CLEAR THE DEAD WEIGHT ON THIS TEAM FIRST

It bugged me more than it should have when he said "I think free agents see our young guys like Jack, Sam, and Dahlin and want to play with them, and they see a guy like Jeff Skinner being rewarded for committing to the Sabres."

Congrats, you lucked into a generational talent and acquired a guy when Buffalo was pretty much his #1 destination due to somewhat unusual circumstances. Then that guy bent you over in negotiations and you had no leverage because you built an awful team. Besides those 2 and signing Pilut, idk if you can say Botts has made any other acquisitions that swung the needle in a significantly positive direction.

For being a guy who talked about how the streak was sorta fluky, you'd think Botts would realize you can't ice one of the worst middle six forward groups in the NHL night after night and expect to win consistently.

 

[Ace]

Carolina upgrades again at no cost.

It’s time to move all of the soft furniture out of big heads office. This sonofabitch is asleep. Nothing but sharp corners from now on.

 

[Ace]

The extent of this offseason plan appears to be make Tage Thompson go to development camp.

 

[Ace]

Botterill walks into work tomorrow at noon, like always.

“How’s it going guys?”

“Carolina just added a 55 Point center for an AHL player”

“....From where?!?”

“Vegas”

Botterill slaps his forehead

“Oh that’s right...there’s THIRTY-ONE teams now”

 

[SundherDome]

Sabres fans are still stuck trying to figure out this Monkey Paw.

• "We want good centers." Wish granted, now watch Drury and Briere leave at the same time while you have to pay Thomas Vanek $7M/year or risk looking incompetent.
• "We want stable, independently wealthy owners." Wish granted. Now endure years of poor management as learn on the job and refuse to hire competent leaders.
• "We need to land a big name UFA." Wish granted, Ville Leino will learn how to play center under the weight of that contract.
• "We need a Selke calibre, two way center." Wish granted, now watch Botterill trade him for a giraffe on skates!
• "We need a franchise center and a franchise defenseman." Wish granted. Now watch as you surround them with terrible depth and waste their years away with poor coaching.

With all 5 fingers curled up, perhaps we are entering a new era.

I f***ing felt this...

 

[tsujimoto74]

Is Botterill on summer vacation?

 

[Fjordy]

Maybe Botterill fishing with Hartman? Or maybe threw all the strength on deals for Jimmy Vesey and Kyle Turris.

 

[Ace]

Yeah maybe when he realized the top tier guys wouldn’t talk to him he figured I better skip the next tier of good players and jump right to the bad ideas so I get a head start on the other teams when they have to settle.