Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[SundherDome]

He also waited for some bad cap to expire. He was dealt an awful cap situation and has had to undo many issues and unfortunately it’s not an overnight process.

Going to be tough to get UFAs to sign here. Trades are likely are best option value wise. We also need some of the young pups to step up this year.

I think he just keeps waiting it out.

He was handed Okposo, Moulson and Bogo which is tough but manageable at 16 million. He then continued to add Pommers, Hunwick, Sobotka, Berglund (imagine how bad that would look today) which was another 15 million in dead weight. There was a situation in which he was in full control where he said "yeah, 30 million in valueless cap is fine for now" <---- that terrifies me.

 

[Chainshot]

Somebody should check his luggage to see what he brought back from Vancouver. He seems to be napping.

 

[toomuchsauce]

Is Botterill on summer vacation?

Botterill was at Development Camp today, so...he's on the job. That might make things worse, actually.

 

[Ace]

At least when Darcy did nothing you knew he was under nearly unworkable constraints.

With every move that goes down in the league...this guy is just making a choice to not improve the team.

 

[sabremike]

Is Botterill on summer vacation?

Forget anything me or anyone has said about his performance so far. Here is what is important: Botts has to know that he absolutely HAS to get it right this offseason and have this team make significant progress or he is getting sacked the minute the season ends. This is a do or die offseason for him. And so far... nothing except watch teams we are competing with improve. Seeing a guy who would've been manna from heaven get traded to a competitor for virtually nothing just makes me feel sad and hopeless. Part of me just wants to go on a rant as a form of catharsis but why even bother at this point? It is what it is.

 

[Ace]

Have you ever seen Forgetting Sarah Marshall? That scene where Paul Rudd is teaching him how to pop up on a surfboard? That’s what this is. Botterill thinks the problem was Murray rushing the rebuild (even though his three big rush the rebuild moves were the playoff mvp, a Vezina finalist and a scoring winger whose team was close to the finals) and he wants to be patient and do it right this time. the Paul Rudd in his head is saying “ no..do less....do less. You’re still doing too much...do less. And now he’s laying still on the board.

“Well...no you gotta do more than that”

 

[toomuchsauce]

Once again, it appears the only plan is to sign Duchene to a massive contract because of reasons that probably have nothing to do with how he plays on the ice. Then, if he does sign with Buffalo, they'll trade Ristolainen for nothing (which would accidentally be a fine idea) just to clear out some $$$. If Duchene signs elsewhere, Nashville for example, Plan B is to figure out a new plan at that time. And they won't trade Ristolainen because they won't "need" to shed his salary since they're not paying Duchene $12M per.

 

[EichHart]

Once again, it appears the only plan is to sign Duchene to a massive contract because of reasons that probably have nothing to do with how he plays on the ice. Then, if he does sign with Buffalo, they'll trade Ristolainen for nothing (which would accidentally be a fine idea) just to clear out some $$$. If Duchene signs elsewhere, Nashville for example, Plan B is to figure out a new plan at that time. And they won't trade Ristolainen because they won't "need" to shed his salary since they're not paying Duchene $12M per.

I love Duchene and would be a good fit here as 2C, but he's not worth what he's about to get in FA and he won't come to Buffalo.

 

[Bisons6]

When Jed Clampett accidentally razed up bubbling crude while shooting at some food, he became a billionaire. He became wealthy by accident, not business acumen. When Terry Pegula "hit" on fracking, was it because he was a self-made business genius, or was it due to sufficient working capital meeting someone else's business plan?

Jason Botterill is so over his head, GM's do rock, paper scissors to get dibs on trading with him first. Phil Housley was not a head coach and never was he going to be. Ryan O'Reilly made an honest, understandable comment after another horrible season because he likes to win. He gets upset when that doesn't happen. OMG, how terrible...get him out of the locker room. Sure. Despite his Conn Smythe, Stanley Cup leading talent, Botts trades him for [NOTHING], even taking two retreads with bad contracts...at the time he traded ROR, Botts was convinced that no one wanted him, his leverage was nonexistent and Doug Armstrong acted like he was doing us a favor. Great way to negotiate big returns.

I'm tired Terry. Get your act together would you please. Hire the right people. Act like the brilliant business magnate, not the ignorant mountain man. And please, Kim is just not a team president [x-2] unless I missed something in her CV. Botts is now the subject of pity from his peers. You (and Kim) are the butt of jokes and ridicule. Having fun yet? We're not. Keep this up and we will all know that you are the accidental billionaire without the slightest clue how to build a winning NHL team.

 

[Gabrielor]

From oreilly lifting that cup to today, Botts has qualified 7 guys, and picked 6 more. Was expecting a little more from a guy whose never seen higher than a 27th place finish.

 

[OkimLom]

I'm not going to get to worked up about the trades that are being done right now by other teams. With how Botterill has handled pulling off trades and my opinion on the return he's gotten from them, I'd rather he wait until the dust settles and see how teams are set up before making a knee jerk reaction (like he did in the Skinner trade). IMO, you want to strike AFTER people eat into their cap and are almost done, not before it.

I'm not going to fret over the moves that have happened. Just not going to waste my time and energy on that. I will make a comment on a move if it happens. However, if come October we are looking at 90% of the same roster that we ended up with last year, then I will comment on the lack of moves from him. Until then, see you guys on the other side.

 

[Chainshot]

Fortune favors the bold. Execute your plan, if you have one.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Fortune favors the bold. Execute your plan, if you have one.

Botts' plan is to preach patience to the Pegula's and milk another year or two from them.

He doesn't actually have an a plan for the on ice product but he figures if he preaches patience the opposite of Murray he will get another year or two before the Pegula's figure out his con game.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I'm not going to get to worked up about the trades that are being done right now by other teams. With how Botterill has handled pulling off trades and my opinion on the return he's gotten from them, I'd rather he wait until the dust settles and see how teams are set up before making a knee jerk reaction (like he did in the Skinner trade). IMO, you want to strike AFTER people eat into their cap and are almost done, not before it.

I'm not going to fret over the moves that have happened. Just not going to waste my time and energy on that. I will make a comment on a move if it happens. However, if come October we are looking at 90% of the same roster that we ended up with last year, then I will comment on the lack of moves from him. Until then, see you guys on the other side.

Problem is, players are selling cheap due to cap constraints. Botts should be looking to make deals during the entire offseason. If not, he's ain't doing his job.

 

[Deleted member 27798]

From oreilly lifting that cup to today, Botts has qualified 7 guys, and picked 6 more. Was expecting a little more from a guy whose never seen higher than a 27th place finish.

There are 31 teams in the league, F/A has yet to start, and how many trades have been made since the Cup final? I'm guessing somewhere around 10, with only a handful of any significance?

How many of the 31 GM's have done little more than Botts at this point in the off-season? Are they also terrible?

I get it...the guy has made some questionable moves, but there are a handful of posters led by the vocal minority who are waiting to s-h-i-t on Botterill at every turn.

 

[Chainshot]

Problem is, players are selling cheap due to cap constraints. Botts should be looking to make deals during the entire offseason. If not, he's ain't doing his job.

Precisely. There are market forces at play right now that teams are already over the And making deals. There are teams that are attempting to clear cap space. Those conditions change later. It’s great to think that one can swoop in and scoop up scraps after the fact but right now they need to be proactive for a change.

 

[Fjordy]

Jason is long overdue to hold some kind of bidding, especially since he himself said that he would mostly make deals and not sign players in a free agency.

 

[OkimLom]

Problem is, players are selling cheap due to cap constraints. Botts should be looking to make deals during the entire offseason. If not, he's ain't doing his job.

I understand that, but I'm not going to be sitting here acting like he's not doing nothing and complaining about it, when I don't have the slightest clue whether he is or isn't trying to.

 

[Chainshot]

There are 31 teams in the league, F/A has yet to start, and how many trades have been made since the Cup final? I'm guessing somewhere around 10, with only a handful of any significance?

How many of the 31 GM's have done little more than Botts at this point in the off-season? Are they also terrible?

I get it...the guy has made some questionable moves, but there are a handful of posters led by the vocal minority who are waiting to s-h-i-t on Botterill at every turn.

By my count 17 teams have made trades since the last week of the cup final involving players not just pick for pick deals. Those trades have involved by my count 28 players and 15 draft picks with one case of future considerations. Of those players one was a buyout. Several teams have made multiple moves. I didn’t count all of the trades by total just looking at who was involved.

 

[SabresFan26]

I think he just keeps waiting it out.

He was handed Okposo, Moulson and Bogo which is tough but manageable at 16 million. He then continued to add Pommers, Hunwick, Sobotka, Berglund (imagine how bad that would look today) which was another 15 million in dead weight. There was a situation in which he was in full control where he said "yeah, 30 million in valueless cap is fine for now" <---- that terrifies me.

All of the contracts minus Berglund expired within 2 years which is when a lot of our young guys would be need to be re-signed. He also ridded us of Ennis and others who had horrible deals given out by the previous GM and avoided buying out contracts that would hurt our cap for future years.

This summer will define Botterill. He has a tough task ahead of him.

 

[Jame]

Same old stuff.

"The Assistant GM brought his former team's scouting department work with him to his new job"

I love the depths to which some will go to invent narratives.

 

[Jame]

All of the contracts minus Berglund expired within 2 years which is when a lot of our young guys would be need to be re-signed. He also ridded us of Ennis and others who had horrible deals given out by the previous GM and avoided buying out contracts that would hurt our cap for future years.

This summer will define Botterill. He has a tough task ahead of him.

Buying out Ennis has cost Minnesota less than Scandella cost Buffalo (in cap space)

2017-18 3.65 / 4.0 (-0.350)
2018-19 2.166 / 4.0 (-1.833)
2019-20 1.216 / 4.0 (-2.784)

Who are the others he ridded us of that had horrible deals?

 

[SundherDome]

All of the contracts minus Berglund expired within 2 years which is when a lot of our young guys would be need to be re-signed. He also ridded us of Ennis and others who had horrible deals given out by the previous GM and avoided buying out contracts that would hurt our cap for future years.

This summer will define Botterill. He has a tough task ahead of him.

He still added the deadweight.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

"The Assistant GM brought his former team's scouting department work with him to his new job"

I love the depths to which some will go to invent narratives.

Not sure I’m following this conversation topic but in Friedmann’s 31 thoughts podcast this week he talks about new GMs having “two lists” - one from their old team, one from their new. They were particularly curious which list Yzerman pulled Seider from.

With Botterill being an AGM and ostensibly not heavily involved in the draft when he was with the pens, I’m not sure he’d have had a list to bring over with him, but it does apparently happen with GMs.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I understand that, but I'm not going to be sitting here acting like he's not doing nothing and complaining about it, when I don't have the slightest clue whether he is or isn't trying to.

Unfortunately, outside of the Skinner trade, Botts hasn't been able to make any savvy trades to acquire solid depth in areas of need during the offseason. Sheary is the closest one, and he didnt pay cheap to get him.

So while I'm not going to jump off the ledge after every depth trade- each one will further my belief that Botts just isnt competent at his job.

I dont hate blindly. I'm a huge fan of Beane, but Botts has a lot of proving to do before I give him the benefit of the doubt.