Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[TehDoak]

I think that would be a tall order for any NHL GM to pull off in a single off season.

To be 100% fair, these needs aren't exactly new. He could have addressed the center issue at any point between the RoR trade and now.

RW shouldn't be a hard between UFA and salary issues.

I don't think he'll attempt to address RHD without moving Risto first.

Either way, it IS a tough hill to climb, but he's in a hole of his own design. Only he can pull himself out of it.

 

[Jim Bob]

To be 100% fair, these needs aren't exactly new. He could have addressed the center issue at any point between the RoR trade and now.

RW shouldn't be a hard between UFA and salary issues.

I don't think he'll attempt to address RHD without moving Risto first.

Either way, it IS a tough hill to climb, but he's in a hole of his own design. Only he can pull himself out of it.

I understand he created the situation that he's in.

I just think that it will be tough to fill the top 3 needs this team has right now, especially if you want to avoid overpaying a UFA or three and you don't want to give up a lot of futures.

The hope is that he can fill one or two of those spots with a good player that a team in a cap crunch needs to offload.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

are you saying scouting is pointless since its just a lottery

Diminishing returns is more accurate. Team's have similar performance in rounds 6 & 7, picking a target is illusionary; superstitious almost.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Random annoying Botts thought:

He signed and kept Remi f***ing Elli for 16 games last year when it was clear from day one he wasn't an NHL player. CJ Smith, who is the same age and a better hockey player, only played 11 games.

 

[Chainshot]

Random annoying Botts thought:

He signed and kept Remi ****ing Elli for 16 games last year when it was clear from day one he wasn't an NHL player. CJ Smith, who is the same age and a better hockey player, only played 11 games.

Random annoying Botts thought from last year:

He said near the end of the season that he wished they could have seen Danny O'Regan in game action at the NHL level. So the GM. Of an NHL team. Who controls the roster. Did not take the action to see the player recalled... and then commented on it like he had no power in the situation.

I won't even get into the 6th round foolishness again.

 

[Royisgone]

Let's assume right now that Botterill will not do a good job fixing things this off-season and that the team will disappoint again in 2019/20.

Let's further assume Botterill is terminated following said disappointing season.

Who is going to replace him and how would that person be found? And why should we think that person will be any better than Botterill if Terry Pegula is the one calling the shots?

I.E., how do we break out of the pattern of "hire loser; wait 3 years or so; fire loser; hire new loser."

 

[Chainshot]

Let's assume right now that Botterill will not do a good job fixing things this off-season and that the team will disappoint again in 2019/20.

Let's further assume Botterill is terminated following said disappointing season.

Who is going to replace him and how would that person be found? And why should we think that person will be any better than Botterill if Terry Pegula is the one calling the shots?

I.E., how do we break out of the pattern of "hire loser; wait 3 years or so; fire loser; hire new loser."

I suspect they will use a method similar to their last two searches, whereby a group of elder or former people on the Penguins board of directors gather for a seance, using a ouija board to spell out the name of the most likely candidate.

 

[Steddy33]

Random annoying Botts thought from last year:

He said near the end of the season that he wished they could have seen Danny O'Regan in game action at the NHL level. So the GM. Of an NHL team. Who controls the roster. Did not take the action to see the player recalled... and then commented on it like he had no power in the situation.

I won't even get into the 6th round foolishness again.

I don't know why things have to be so complicated for the Sabres management. I think several posters on this board would run the Sabres better than things have ran under the Pegulas. It's quite frankly embarrassing at this point. I've never rooted for any team in the NHL other than the Sabres. I don't think I can do it anymore depending on how the next 2 weeks go.

 

[sabremike]

Let's assume right now that Botterill will not do a good job fixing things this off-season and that the team will disappoint again in 2019/20.

Let's further assume Botterill is terminated following said disappointing season.

Who is going to replace him and how would that person be found? And why should we think that person will be any better than Botterill if Terry Pegula is the one calling the shots?

I.E., how do we break out of the pattern of "hire loser; wait 3 years or so; fire loser; hire new loser."

They finally give the job to the guy they should've given it to all along:

 

[Sabre Dance]

No confidence in this guy at all. I've noticed that once I start ignoring press conferences and interviews I'm done with that GM or coach. I can't even listen to him anymore.

 

[Gabrielor]

No confidence in this guy at all. I've noticed that once I start ignoring press conferences and interviews I'm done with that GM or coach. I can't even listen to him anymore.

I’ve become more intrigued. The question driving me is how someone thought he was the right man for this job.

 

[Chainshot]

I’ve become more intrigued. The question driving me is how someone thought he was the right man for this job.

NHL group think trumpeted him and Fenton as the next big things.

His body of work so far, trade-wise:

History of NHL trades by the Buffalo Sabres - NHL Trade Tracker

 

[Hasek]

I fully expect the Sabres to make the playoffs and be competitive based solely on the amount of hate Botts gets on this forum. Keep on keepin on.

 

[sufferer]

I fully expect the Sabres to make the playoffs and be competitive based solely on the amount of hate Botts gets on this forum. Keep on keepin on.

It sure worked this past season.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I bet more than 1 new player is added to the roster between now and training camp.

All rosters league-wide are roughly 75-85% set for next season and the Sabres are no different.

I dont doubt that. I just think Botterill will always be holding this franchise back. I hope to be proven wrong, but to be blunt, I'm not sure you will find many GMs who have had a worst 2-year start than Botterill...and that's extremely worrisome, especially considering we have Eichel and Dahlin. The f***ing potential to be great is set. I dont think there's a more enticing center and defenseman combo in the league.

My fear is 5 years from now we will still be cleaning up Botterill's mess, and seriously reminiscing on how great those 5 years could have been if we had someone competent in charge. We're just wasting time with Botterill.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

I fully expect the Sabres to make the playoffs and be competitive based solely on the amount of hate Botts gets on this forum. Keep on keepin on.

With the exact same roster?

 

[TehDoak]

I dont doubt that. I just think Botterill will always be holding this franchise back. I hope to be proven wrong, but to be blunt, I'm not sure you will find many GMs who have had a worst 2-year start than Botterill...and that's extremely worrisome, especially considering we have Eichel and Dahlin. The ****ing potential to be great is set. I dont think there's a more enticing center and defenseman combo in the league.

My fear is 5 years from now we will still be cleaning up Botterill's mess, and seriously reminiscing on how great those 5 years could have been if we had someone competent in charge. We're just wasting time with Botterill.

Bad GMs win the cup all the time. Look at Rutherford in Pittsburgh. He did some dumb shit on paper but it worked itself out. And the longer he's been there, the worse its gotten. They might not make the playoffs next year if they have any sort of injury issues. Or Chiarelli won a cup in Boston.

Sometimes blind luck is more important that a base level of competence.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I dont doubt that. I just think Botterill will always be holding this franchise back. I hope to be proven wrong, but to be blunt, I'm not sure you will find many GMs who have had a worst 2-year start than Botterill...and that's extremely worrisome, especially considering we have Eichel and Dahlin. The ****ing potential to be great is set. I dont think there's a more enticing center and defenseman combo in the league.

My fear is 5 years from now we will still be cleaning up Botterill's mess, and seriously reminiscing on how great those 5 years could have been if we had someone competent in charge. We're just wasting time with Botterill.

I'm not a Botterill supporter in anyway but his first 2 seasons are all the fault of his hiring of Housley.

I'm still wondering how one man could have got a hiring so damn wrong and the amount of kickback I got telling this forum how bad Housley was, @schpaff now knows I was right.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I'm not a Botterill supporter in anyway but his first 2 seasons are all the fault of his hiring of Housley.

I'm still wondering how one man could have got a hiring so damn wrong and the amount of kickback I got telling this forum how bad Housley was, @schpaff now knows I was right.

This can't be said enough.

Botts could do absolutely nothing with the roster except sign the RFAs... You have Dahlin with a year's experience, Montour /Pilut for a full season, hopefully some developmentt from Mitt, the additions of Olofsson/Smith maybe Nylander & Borgen too. With a NHL calibre coach they are in the mix for the playoffs at the least IMO.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Bad GMs win the cup all the time. Look at Rutherford in Pittsburgh. He did some dumb **** on paper but it worked itself out. And the longer he's been there, the worse its gotten. They might not make the playoffs next year if they have any sort of injury issues. Or Chiarelli won a cup in Boston.

Sometimes blind luck is more important that a base level of competence.

It comes down to drafting.

Pittsburgh drafted Crosby and Malkin and Boston has hit in the draft year after year.

When was the last time we drafted a star in the late rounds? Miller? How about an offensive star? This team has a problem with late round scouting

Drafting has been so bad by the sabres especially in the second and third rounds.

10 2nds and 3rds Kea, Cornel, Karabacek, Baptiste, Bailey, Catanecci, Leduc Sundher, Hurley etc you got to hit on some of those.

 

[threeVo]

It comes down to drafting.

Pittsburgh drafted Crosby and Malkin and Boston has hit in the draft year after year.

When was the last time we drafted a star in the late rounds? Miller? How about an offensive star? This team has a problem with late round scouting

Drafting has been so bad by the sabres especially in the second and third rounds.

10 2nds and 3rds Kea, Cornel, Karabacek, Baptiste, Bailey, Catanecci etc you got to hit on some of those.

Olofsson is like the only player right now I could see having the potential to change that. Its sad

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Olofsson is like the only player right now I could see having the potential to change that. Its sad

It is sad, 2nd and 3rd round is still quality talent and we are drafting Cornel, Kea and Karabacek. Just terrible.

Even go back farther Persson, scheistel, gugolla, Funk, Fabry total misses.

The 2010 draft was a complete disaster. That whole video scouting era put the sabres way back.

 

[Tatanka]

Bobblehead is just a symptom. The Pegs were outraged at Kane for peeing in the punchbowl at their draft party. ROR pissed them off with his comments. So they want character now. These same folks have no problem raising ticket prices, and pressuring SLG for a new stadium when the team finishes dfl 3 out of 5 years. A Christmas party takes a wrong turn and the Harborcenter staff is shit canned, probably correctly. Make the stupidest trade in the Last 20 years and its business as usual because in the end they can blame it on the gm, send a letter to sths and their personal brand remains intact. Any competent FO guy is gonna politely decline any association with these clowns and the media will continue fawn over the saviours of sports in wny. I swore off the Bills when the hired Ryan and haven’t looked back. The Sabres are a tougher habit to kick. But I may need to for my sanity.

 

[sabremike]

A general problem I have with both Botts and GMTM: They both tried to design teams with styles that were en vouge at that very moment instead of seeing where the league was headed and getting ahead of the curve. That is how Bellicheck and the Patriots are so successful: when teams throughout the league are copying X they go in the opposite direction. We will never get anywhere until we start doing things that get us ahead of the curve, which is why the idea we apparently don't even have an analytics department is so depressing: It means we are behind the curve. If Kreuger forces the organization to go in a more progressive direction than he has already done more good for this organization than every coach since Lindy combined.

 

[OkimLom]

NHL group think trumpeted him and Fenton as the next big things.

His body of work so far, trade-wise:

History of NHL trades by the Buffalo Sabres - NHL Trade Tracker

Looking at Botts' history: History of hockey trades by general manager Jason Botterill - NHL Trade Tracker

It just looks more like a GM moving around talent and less of team building. It's comes off as a collection of moves put together without a plan of destination you want to get to. There doesn't appear to be any "type of player" he wants to focus on.