Speculation: Jakob Chychrun being held out of the Coyotes lineup until a trade is completed

[SupremeTeam16]

I mean in Jeanott could 5 picks maybe the ask for chychrun is too low

Yeah the ask is too low. That’s probably why they haven’t been able to trade him in two seasons.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

very surprised the PA is ok with this guy sitting out for... how long is it now? unless he really wants out himself and is truly willing.

The PA has no say in healthy scratches, regardless as to the reason behind it. It honestly baffles me how some believe the NHLPA or the NHL for that matter have some sort of input on a team's roster if all contractual guidelines are being met.

The PA and the league have both interceded to defend the 'spirit' of the CBA, competition, the nature of the game, etc, regardless of the letter of the law or contract. More so the league than the union. Many times.

Avery rule. Kovalchuk rule. Ever see Campbell's emails that were exposed during discovery? These are just the scenarios that have bubbled out to the media.

The "Avery rule" was a playing rule. The NHLPA has a say in that. The "Kovalchuk rule" had to do with ultra-long contracts and cap circumvention. [Which really should have been investigated and stopped back at least when Luongo signed his deal, and really when Briere signed his in 2006, but that's a different topic.] That's a CBA thing, the NHLPA has a say in that too.

Campbell's e-mails have nothing to do with the current situation. [If you're aware enough to mention those e-mails, you're aware of what they discussed and thus would already know they're not applicable.]

Article 5 of the CBA expressly grants teams the right to operate however they wish, without input from or interference by the NHLPA, provided that the team doesn't violate the Standard Player Contract (SPC) or the terms of the CBA. If Arizona wants to healthy scratch him for the rest of his contract, that's their right and it's not a violation of the SPC. He's still getting paid, he's not out contractually obligated money by sitting, he's not getting fined for missing. If the NHLPA isn't happy about it, tough - it can try to get Article 5 changed and figure out what major concession it's going to give the owners in exchange for that.

 

[Nakawick]

Chychrun to the Pens makes some sense if Dumolin is shipped out for a 2nd.

I could see a last minute deal when Arizona folds a bit on demand. Still landing a 1st,2nd,B prospect, and Smith or someone NHL ready like him

Chychrun added to the Pens and keeping Dumoulin makes the defense much deeper. Chychrun could play opposite Letang or the Pens could roll with 3 more evenly matched pairs.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The conditions on they pick have a decent shot of being met. Easily could be two 1sts. Also Meier is an RFA with a 9mil QO.

Still, that NJD package would’ve been a pretty good haul for Chychrun that I’d have been happy with. Your PIT package doesn’t stack up.

I was using 4 pieces within the Meier trade to come up with an equivalent package for what I would expect a Chychrun trade to look like. Chychrun wouldn't even sniff the total value Meier brought back in that trade. I was just using Mukhamadullin and Okhotiuk as the 2 B prospects who would be added on top of a 1st and 2nd as what I would expect the Chychrun deal to end up looking like.

 

[FinnishCoyote]

hes gonna have a NTC lol

Modified NTC for 10 teams, lol

Ok, maybe he gets 1st and 2nd in 2 years. I’m ready to sacrifice a 2nd for 2 years of Chychrun

 

[unicornpig]

Modified NTC for 10 teams, lol

Ok, maybe he gets 1st and 2nd in 2 years. I’m ready to sacrifice a 2nd for 2 years of Chychrun

anything to justify the bungle job by armstrong LOL. 2023 is supposed to be the deepest draft in a while.

 

[rt]

Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.

I think it's basically impossible to come back from healthy scratching Chychrun for "trade related reasons". I can't even fathom an acceptable scenario where the deadline passes and Chychrun is still on the Coyotes. That's going to be a completely toxic situation if the Coyotes refuse to trade him and then just throw him back on the ice.

It would be nonsensical for the Coyotes to turn down a package of 2 B prospects, a 1st and a 2nd to just hold onto Chychrun. Even taking out the impact of scratching a guy for a month because of "trade related reasons" only to not trade him, his value is going to decrease due to the less years of control he'll have.

Chychrun showed up to training camp despite being injured and months away from a return in order to tell the media he wanted to be traded to a winner because he’s a competitor and careers are too short. He then re-entered a locker room with guys like Keller, Crouse and Schmaltz who all had long term contracts recently kick in that they signed with this loser team. You don’t think anyone them were thinking “am I not a competitor Jake?” - it’s already awkward. And it’s already “is what it is” and nobody cares about it. It was compartmentalized months ago.

anything to justify the bungle job by armstrong LOL. 2023 is supposed to be the deepest draft in a while.

Bungling would be taking less than he’s worth. He’s worth at least the equivalent of two 1sts and a 2nd.

I was using 4 pieces within the Meier trade to come up with an equivalent package for what I would expect a Chychrun trade to look like. Chychrun wouldn't even sniff the total value Meier brought back in that trade. I was just using Mukhamadullin and Okhotiuk as the 2 B prospects who would be added on top of a 1st and 2nd as what I would expect the Chychrun deal to end up looking like.

Incorrect.

 

[FinnishCoyote]

anything to justify the bungle job by armstrong LOL. 2023 is supposed to be the deepest draft in a while.

i’m completely on board with BA about not trading Chychrun for peanuts.

 

[Gabrielor]

Buffalo won't pay what the reported adk was......2023 1st, one of Savoie/Kulich, LD Samuelsson. Those 2 prospects and that defenseman won't be moved is my suspicion, and if I'm Adam's, rightfully so. Given the way the Sabres growth is surging, no reason to.

There's absolutely a 0% chance Arizona asked for that much, and the Sabres have still talked to them multiple times.

Samuelsson?! absolutely not. You don't sign a guy for 7 years to trade him for a guy with 2. Whatever 'Sabres site' you got that from isn't a source at all. It's lunacy.

I believe for any deal to work, it would involve our 1st, likely in 23. I'd bet one of the hang-ups is Adams preferring it to be 24.

Savoie/Kulich isn't happening. We've discussed that. Rosen could though. I'd hate to lose him, but you have to give to get.

I don’t believe it.

Neither should anyone else.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Incorrect.

No, it's completely correct. There is zero chance in hell Chychrun brings back the return Meier brought back, because Meier is just way more valuable than Chychrun.

 

[unicornpig]

i’m completely on board with BA about not trading Chychrun for peanuts.

nobody is asking him to be traded for peanuts, the no trade in the past year and a half shows he is not worth the kings ransom armstrong is asking for.....

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Can we just trade him for Patrick Kane and call it a day?

No, because Kane can still play. They could trade him to Edmonton for Mike Smith and Oskar Klefbom, though.

 

[FSL KINGS]

With Flames falling out is Hanifin going to hit the market?

 

[FinnishCoyote]

nobody is asking him to be traded for peanuts, the no trade in the past year and a half shows he is not worth the kings ransom armstrong is asking for.....

Then he will stay in Arizona. Its just that simple

 

[unicornpig]

Then he will stay in Arizona. Its just that simple

and again that is extremly poor job by the GM. but like i said before youre ok with your gm bungling this whole situation.

 

[FinnishCoyote]

and again that is extremly poor job by the GM. but like i said before youre ok with your gm bungling this whole situation.

I don’t think that it is poor job at all. My preferred outcome would be to convince Chychrun to stay in Arizona, which could happen with winning lottery.

 

[Leafshater67]

No, it's completely correct. There is zero chance in hell Chychrun brings back the return Meier brought back, because Meier is just way more valuable than Chychrun.

Top pairing D for under 5 million with term vs RFA with a 10m QC and no extension in place... seems to me Meier is worth less, not extended. Had he have been extended before the move, his value would be more but there’s a lot of value in getting a top D with term for half the cap hit of what it’ll take to resign Meier.

 

[Ace]

Patience can pay off. If you can get the pieces you can live with in the end. Buffalo sat on Eichel for a long time and ended up getting things that genuinely helped them in return. Tuch has been incredible. Krebs is settling in to a good role and is young. They used the first on Ostlund who is having a great post draft season. And they still have a 2nd this year.

Did they get the ask everyone talked about them wanting for a year? No. I think that rumor was like 3 firsts and a roster player for an injured star. But…hey….they got a hell of a roster player, a 1, a recent first round prospect and a 2.

Worked out for everyone.

Took forever to happen

 

[rt]

No, it's completely correct. There is zero chance in hell Chychrun brings back the return Meier brought back, because Meier is just way more valuable than Chychrun.

Does Chychrun have a 9mil QO this summer?

 

[unicornpig]

Top pairing D for under 5 million with term vs RFA with a 10m QC and no extension in place... seems to me Meier is worth less, not extended. Had he have been extended before the move, his value would be more but there’s a lot of value in getting a top D with term for half the cap hit of what it’ll take to resign Meier.

he's not a top pariing dman, he's often injured. meier is a all-star top line winger....

 

[Yatzhee]

The "Avery rule" was a playing rule. The NHLPA has a say in that. The "Kovalchuk rule" had to do with ultra-long contracts and cap circumvention. [Which really should have been investigated and stopped back at least when Luongo signed his deal, and really when Briere signed his in 2006, but that's a different topic.] That's a CBA thing, the NHLPA has a say in that too.

Campbell's e-mails have nothing to do with the current situation. [If you're aware enough to mention those e-mails, you're aware of what they discussed and thus would already know they're not applicable.]

Article 5 of the CBA expressly grants teams the right to operate however they wish, without input from or interference by the NHLPA, provided that the team doesn't violate the Standard Player Contract (SPC) or the terms of the CBA. If Arizona wants to healthy scratch him for the rest of his contract, that's their right and it's not a violation of the SPC. He's still getting paid, he's not out contractually obligated money by sitting, he's not getting fined for missing. If the NHLPA isn't happy about it, tough - it can try to get Article 5 changed and figure out what major concession it's going to give the owners in exchange for that.

Bingo!!!

Hence in my post why I specifically stated as long as all contractual guidelines are followed. Thank you, was at work, couldn't in put long reponses.

 

[rt]

nobody is asking him to be traded for peanuts, the no trade in the past year and a half shows he is not worth the kings ransom armstrong is asking for.....

He’s worth two late 1sts and a late 2nd.

 

[unicornpig]

He’s worth two late 1sts and a late 2nd.

you can type it all you want, doesnt mean he gets that....

 

[Ace]

No, it's completely correct. There is zero chance in hell Chychrun brings back the return Meier brought back, because Meier is just way more valuable than Chychrun.

His contract is great for two more years. When teams are out there throwing huge payments for cost control…I wouldn’t automatically assume a better player looking for twice as much has more value in trade.

 

[rt]

you can type it all you want, doesnt mean he gets that....

Oh I don’t think he’s going all by himself for just three picks like that. One of those picks might be swapped for an equivalent prospect. Say Morrow or Rosen for the ‘24 1st. Or maybe Johnson or Drury instead of the 2nd. And maybe Bjugstad goes along with Chychrun and/or a ‘24 4th. Something like that.

But when it all comes out in the wash, I’m expecting 2x 25th overalls and 1x 55th overall in actual value coming back for Chychrun and minor value headed out.