Jake Muzzin

[MR4]

Going for Chychrun definitely seems like the smart move with Muzzin’s decline in play before tonight + our LTIR cap space we now have.

We’re clearly in good relations with Arizona too recently, we could even overpay a bit on a Chychrun trade now and then get an IOU redeemed in the summer for Arizona to retain on Muzzin’s contract before sending him to a place Muzzin wants to go.

 

[Stephen]

Going for Chychrun definitely seems like the smart move with Muzzin’s decline in play before tonight + our LTIR cap space we now have.

We’re clearly in good relations with Arizona too recently, we could even overpay a bit on a Chychrun trade now and then get an IOU redeemed in the summer for Arizona to retain on Muzzin’s contract before sending him to a place Muzzin wants to go.

Or could our Leafs package for Chychrun build in a Muzzin disposal fee, with the upside that if Muzzin turns it around Arizona could flip him for even more? All of a sudden opens up potential for some bigger roster restructuring but I'm not sure what the appetite for that is.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He had a concussion against jersey?

No he didn't play against Jersey. I misread.

He suffered one against STL and again now.

He also has clearly been sufferring from some kind of mental fatigue long before the concussions. He has been processing things way too slow (a lot like Tavares in 2022). Could be due to Covid.

However 2 concussions in less than a month? I think that does it for him. That doesn't include the other injuries he has sufferred, but I think it has been the concussions and the mental stuff from Covid that have hurt him the most.



He has had **** luck.

 

[MR4]

Or could our Leafs package for Chychrun build in a Muzzin disposal fee, with the upside that if Muzzin turns it around Arizona could flip him for even more? All of a sudden opens up potential for some bigger roster restructuring but I'm not sure what the appetite for that is.

It looks pretty bad on teams to trade recently injured players honestly.

Even if that wasn’t the case though, with Muzzin having an NTC in his contract, Arizona is one of the least likely places you’d bet someone would want to get traded to. Probably would only accept with a built in “we’ll flip you to X team” deal in place

 

[Stephen]

It looks pretty bad on teams to trade recently injured players honestly.

Even if that wasn’t the case though, with Muzzin having an NTC in his contract, Arizona is one of the least likely places you’d bet someone would want to get traded to. Probably would only accept with a built in “we’ll flip you to X team” deal in place

A decent compromise would just be to shut him down LTIR style like Montreal did with Shea Weber.

 

[Buds17]

Tough way to celebrate a birthday. All the best to him.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Going for Chychrun definitely seems like the smart move with Muzzin’s decline in play before tonight + our LTIR cap space we now have.

We’re clearly in good relations with Arizona too recently, we could even overpay a bit on a Chychrun trade now and then get an IOU redeemed in the summer for Arizona to retain on Muzzin’s contract before sending him to a place Muzzin wants to go.

I don't think the Leafs go after Chychrun, even after this. Chychrun does not really fit the role first of all, and secondly, I don't think the Leafs want to deviate from their plan to let Sandin progress.

I think we go with Giordano instead. The price should be reasonable, especially without retention. I think he has enough in the tank to buy Sandin another year while he gets used to a longer run of big minutes, similar to what we would have used Muzzin to do next year, and Gio could be willing to sign here for very cheap.

 

[Leafsfan74]

He's been our worst defenseman by far this year and we still have one of the best defenses in the league. I still am holding out hope he can turn things around, but after this concussion, I don't know if he can process the game properly anymore... And I think he is going to call it a career. There is no way he can survive 2 concussions in about a month at this point in his career.

Mark Giordano makes a lot of sense for us now. He can play 2nd pairing for this year. We can bring him back for cheap next year, and Muzzin's money opens up a lot of flexibility.

I just find it hard to believe he will try to make a comeback.

Well, if he is out the team is obviously in a bind. Regardless of how his season has gone, and I admit he hasn't looked himself most of the year, his sacrifice in keeping players at bay is second to none. That won't be easily replaced.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Shout out to Muzz and his family , believe me when I say , multiple concussions arent very good signs of stability in life …
Get well …
I’m not kidding in any way when I say this …
This may explain his play thus far …
He could be dealing with these issues presently and or previously accumulated…
GLG

 

[MSZ]

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Well, if he is out the team is obviously in a bind. Regardless of how his season has gone, and I admit he hasn't looked himself most of the year, his sacrifice in keeping players at bay is second to none. That won't be easily replaced.

He has had issues with that this year though. If we had Muzzin of years past, definitely a huge loss. Muzzin of this year though? He has been a massive liability more often than anything useful. Even his physicality was inconsistent because he was so slow to react and get himself in position to be physical. He would miss basic coverages like crazy, especially in front of the net.

All of the things Holl and Tavares gets criticized for defensively, Muzzin does with a far greater frequency... And he has been doing it consistently all year. At least with Holl and Tavares, there are a lot more ups than downs.

Muzzin has a 44% GF% at ES this year. The next lowest defenseman on our team is over 52%. Holl has looked good inspite of him, and has been stellar any time he has played away from Muzzin (even if he is still handling tough minutes). Muzzin's xGF% is a little bit better, but it is still nowhere near as good as it once was.

Honestly, it looked like he was already sufferring from some kind of concussion-like fogginess long before the first concussion. It may have been Covid, but even before he had Covid, it looked like he was off.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Count me as on board with LTIR’ing him until the playoffs. He’s not doing anything positive out there anyway.

 

[Leafsfan74]

He has had issues with that this year though. If we had Muzzin of years past, definitely a huge loss. Muzzin of this year though? He has been a massive liability more often than anything useful. Even his physicality was inconsistent because he was so slow to react and get himself in position to be physical. He would miss basic coverages like crazy, especially in front of the net.

All of the things Holl and Tavares gets criticized for defensively, Muzzin does with a far greater frequency... And he has been doing it consistently all year. At least with Holl and Tavares, there are a lot more ups than downs.

Muzzin has a 44% GF% at ES this year. The next lowest defenseman on our team is over 52%. Holl has looked good inspite of him, and has been stellar any time he has played away from Muzzin (even if he is still handling tough minutes). Muzzin's xGF% is a little bit better, but it is still nowhere near as good as it once was.

Honestly, it looked like he was already sufferring from some kind of concussion-like fogginess long before the first concussion. It may have been Covid, but even before he had Covid, it looked like he was off.

He has definitely not looked like himself almost out of the gate. He is a competitor and warrior though and you can't reign in such players, nor should you.

I think a LTIR is the best approach, if he is ready come playoffs and wants to play, ensure he is healthy and then allow him to.

Let him sit out for the next two months, give him all the support he needs, let him rest, heal, work through it and hope for the best while the team plans for the worst.

Crosby had serious concussion problems early as well to the point it looked as if his career might be over fairly early, but he's bounced back and then some.

 

[Havoc]

Pretty sure this is a LTIR situation. The way his head hit the ice is how players get injured after a big hit. It's usually the head hitting the ice that causes the injury, not the hit itself.

Get well soon Muzzin (round 1 game 1)

 

[stickty111]

Hopefully it isn't serious. Either way, he needs to sit out the rest of the season to regroup. We'll need him in the playoffs.

 

[aingefan]

No he didn't play against Jersey. I misread.

He suffered one against STL and again now.

He also has clearly been sufferring from some kind of mental fatigue long before the concussions. He has been processing things way too slow (a lot like Tavares in 2022). Could be due to Covid.

However 2 concussions in less than a month? I think that does it for him. That doesn't include the other injuries he has sufferred, but I think it has been the concussions and the mental stuff from Covid that have hurt him the most.



He has had **** luck.

That would be a tragic outcome for a guy who laid it all on the line so many nights.
He definitely needs to air on the side of health.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He has definitely not looked like himself almost out of the gate. He is a competitor and warrior though and you can't reign in such players, nor should you.

I think a LTIR is the best approach, if he is ready come playoffs and wants to play, ensure he is healthy and then allow him to.

Let him sit out for the next two months, give him all the support he needs, let him rest, heal, work through it and hope for the best while the team plans for the worst.

Crosby had serious concussion problems early as well to the point it looked as if his career might be over fairly early, but he's bounced back and then some.

Crosby was 24/25 when that happened. Muzzin is 33.

There is a possibility he comes back, but at his age and for how often it has happened now... I would not count on it.

And then there is the matter of whether he can even keep up. It was already looking iffy. He might try to come back, like Rask did, but if he looks worse than he already did, he may decide that is it.

 

[JSn0w93]

I'll try to say this while retaining some sort of class. The guy clearly needs a break to get healthy. I hope we are able to LTIR him for the remainder of the season and if he's able to play in the playoffs give him a chance then. Then likely try and move on from him this Summer. At his age with his wear and tear along with not being fleet of foot we simply cannot keep him on this team at 5.6 per. He's shot.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'll try to say this while retaining some sort of class. The guy clearly needs a break to get healthy. I hope we are able to LTIR him for the remainder of the season and if he's able to play in the playoffs give him a chance then. Then likely try and move on from him this Summer. At his age with his wear and tear along with not being fleet of foot we simply cannot keep him on this team at 5.6 per. He's shot.

Short of his career being over, he is going to be here for at least one more year after this one.

 

[JSn0w93]

Short of his career being over, he is going to be here for at least one more year after this one.

Likely true, but stranger things have happened. Especially when you have graveyards like Arizona in the league.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Likely true, but stranger things have happened. Especially when you have graveyards like Arizona in the league.

Why would Muzzin agree to leave Toronto to go to Arizona if he plans on playing?

 

[1specter]

Sad seeing the death of his career like this. Very good when healthy but that's seldom these days. Hope he'll be alright

 

[JSn0w93]

Why would Muzzin agree to leave Toronto to go to Arizona if he plans on playing?

Probably a nice long sit down with him and his agent. Not the same situation, but Burke essentially stated in his book that he told Kaberle's agent that if he didn't accept the trade to Boston he wouldn't play another game, obviously that team wasn't contending and could afford to sit Kaberle at cost in 2011 so different situations, and we all know well what Lou has done to guys. My point is if there is a will there is a way, who wants to play for someone who makes it clear they don't want you?

However if Muzzin is intent on playing this team cannot pay him 5.6 for declining pay with the window they have right now. It would absolutely be priority #1 to punt that contract into the sun this off-season.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Probably a nice long sit down with him and his agent. Not the same situation, but Burke essentially stated in his book that he told Kaberle's agent that if he didn't accept the trade to Boston he wouldn't play another game, obviously that team wasn't contending and could afford to sit Kaberle at cost in 2011 so different situations, and we all know well what Lou has done to guys. My point is if there is a will there is a way, who wants to play for someone who makes it clear they don't want you?

However if Muzzin is intent on playing this team cannot pay him 5.6 for declining pay with the window they have right now. It would absolutely be priority #1 to punt that contract into the sun this off-season.

Telling Muzzin to leave his hometown Cup Contender to go to a team that doesn't even have an NHL arena? No GM is swinging that.

If he is still capable of playing next year, he is playing here and we will go from there. If he is not, then his contract doesn't matter anyways. We will use his LTIR money to replace him.

 

[seanlinden]

I'm a big Jake Muzzin fan... but when we signed that contract, I think most on this board would agree that it was likely going to turn sour before it's completion. This isn't TJ Brodie who's success is basically all driven by putting his stick in the right spot. This is a guy who plays physical, and guys like him don't tend to age well.

I fear that with this latest injury; that time may now be here. He's looked off all this year, or at least, looked like he's playing not to get hurt, and 2 concussions in a short period of time are not good. Muzzin is a very important part of this D, and even if he has a timeline for return in the neighborhood of the playoffs, I don't see how you, as a hopeful cup contender, go in knowing you're 1 Jake Muzzin injury away from your bottom 4 being comprised of Dermott, Holl, Sandin, Liljegren and Lyubushkin.

Personally, I'd hope that Dubas seizes this as an opportunity to "Get out of cap hell free" card -- and maybe pursues a defenceman of the quality that he was unable to pursue prior.

In an ideal world, probably 1 with term, and figure out how to move Muzzin in the summer. His full NTC could of course pose some challenges with that.