Value of: Jake Guentzel as a rental

[Big Daddy Cane]

What’s the Kuzmenko valuation there?

The expected slot for the Islanders’ 1st was middle of the round, with lower teens upside and upper teens downside (realistically). Vancouver’s 1st is at best 27th atm. That’s a big drop in value. 27 to 11 cost 34+45 in 2022 and I cite that particular example as it’s the rare one of a team even being able trade up like that; NHL clubs don’t want to give up quality for quantity.

 

[66-30-33]

He is a UFA and Kuzmenko isnt chopped liver. In fact i rather we keep the younger Kuzmenko. You wanted a kings ransom for Guentzel who will be UFA?? Trading Kuzmenko and 1st is more return than what we got for Horvat who is a 2nd C and worth more than Guentzel.

That's fine you keep the guy getting HS'd.

 

[Ulf5]

That's fine you keep the guy getting HS'd.

Especially the healty scratch that is only a year and 111 days younger.

 

[BillyOcean]

What's missing here is the image has the source as the Athletic. I can only assume the source within the Athletic is either Rob Rossi or Josh Yohe. They would make great dungeon masters in D+D because they love larping storylines and scenarios not based in reality.

If I were the GM in NHL 24 for the Penguins and it was looking like the team was going to struggle to make the playoffs, it seems like the smart thing to do would be to trade Jake and try to sign him in the offseason. If that can't be something that is worked out between the sides, then I'm not going to cry about spending 10 million/yr for a 30 year old 160 pound winger. See, I can larp too.

 

[Ulf5]

What's missing here is the image has the source as the Athletic. I can only assume the source within the Athletic is either Rob Rossi or Josh Yohe. They would make great dungeon masters in D+D because they love larping storylines and scenarios not based in reality.

If I were the GM in NHL 24 for the Penguins and it was looking like the team was going to struggle to make the playoffs, it seems like the smart thing to do would be to trade Jake and try to sign him in the offseason. If that can't be something that is worked out between the sides, then I'm not going to cry about spending 10 million/yr for a 30 year old 160 pound winger. See, I can larp too.

According to this, Chris Johnston:

Penguins Notes: Guentzel, Shea, Trade Market

Notes from Pittsburgh including no progress on extension talks with Jake Guentzel, Ryan Shea is assigned to Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, and more.

www.prohockeyrumors.com

 

[SEALBound]

He is a UFA and Kuzmenko isnt chopped liver. In fact i rather we keep the younger Kuzmenko. You wanted a kings ransom for Guentzel who will be UFA?? Trading Kuzmenko and 1st is more return than what we got for Horvat who is a 2nd C and worth more than Guentzel.

No he's not. 40g top line LWs are worth more than underperformed 2Cs with questionable lockerroom reps.

Penguins would be taking on the cap hit for Kuzmenko. So the relief of the contract in order to upgrade to Guentzel is worth something.

If it's Kuzmenko, I could see it being Kuz+1st.

 

[Gurglesons]

He is a UFA and Kuzmenko isnt chopped liver. In fact i rather we keep the younger Kuzmenko. You wanted a kings ransom for Guentzel who will be UFA?? Trading Kuzmenko and 1st is more return than what we got for Horvat who is a 2nd C and worth more than Guentzel.

Yes. Jake will return more than Horvat.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Would prefer an excellent prospect straight up for him at 50%

 

[jackjohnson]

Yes. Jake will return more than Horvat.

Nope, wingers are worth less than centers, especially when their production is similar. Also Horvat probably had a agreement with NYI to sign with them before tge trade happened. Kuzmenko is worth way more than Raty and Beauvillier and throwing a 1st is crazy just for slight upgrade

 

[Zbynek]

Nope, wingers are worth less than centers, especially when their production is similar. Also Horvat probably had a agreement with NYI to sign with them before tge trade happened. Kuzmenko is worth way more than Raty and Beauvillier and throwing a 1st is crazy just for slight upgrade

Horvat being a center doesn't change the fact he's a 50-60 point guy and Guentzel is closer to ppg, averaging 76 points per season over his career and hitting 40 goals twice. They are not on the same level so not sure where you're getting this "production is similar"

I agree with you Kuzmenko has good value. He'd very quickly be in Sully's doghouse though so unless Sullivan gets fired I don't see that being much of a fit.

 

[jackjohnson]

Horvat being a center doesn't change the fact he's a 50-60 point guy and Guentzel is closer to ppg, averaging 76 points per season over his career and hitting 40 goals twice. They are not on the same level so not sure where you're getting this "production is similar"

I agree with you Kuzmenko has good value. He'd very quickly be in Sully's doghouse though so unless Sullivan gets fired I don't see that being much of a fit.

Horvat had close to 40 goals before that trade and was Canucks best center. Not sure what you are talking about when you say he was a 50 point guy. NYI were thinking they have a 100 point center when they traded for him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Horvat had close to 40 goals before that trade and was Canucks best center. Not sure what you are talking about when you say he was a 50 point guy. NYI were thinking they have a 100 point center when they traded for him.

100 point centers don’t go for what Horvat returned lol.

 

[jackjohnson]

100 point centers don’t go for what Horvat returned lol.

The fact Horvat got that 8.7 mil long term contract shows that NYI was thinking he was close to a 100 point guy. You dont pay someone close to 9 mil per year to put up 50 points lol

 

[Ulf5]

Horvat had close to 40 goals before that trade and was Canucks best center. Not sure what you are talking about when you say he was a 50 point guy. NYI were thinking they have a 100 point center when they traded for him.

Lol. Horvat averages 28 goals, 58 points for 82 games over his career. Came close to 40 goals once. Never even sniffed 80 points let alone 100.

 

[jackjohnson]

Lol. Horvat averages 28 goals, 58 points for 82 games over his career. Came close to 40 goals once. Never even sniffed 80 points let alone 100.

Dude am talking about the year they traded him to NYI. Was never talking about his career average. He had his best season during the year they traded him

 

[Gurglesons]

The fact Horvat got that 8.7 mil long term contract shows that NYI was thinking he was close to a 100 point guy. You dont pay someone close to 9 mil per year to put up 50 points lol

In today’s NHL a player signing for 8-9 mil is closer to 50 pts than 100.

 

[jackjohnson]

In today’s NHL a player signing for 8-9 mil is closer to 50 pts than 100.

Not really. JT miller signed for 8 mil and people here were crying about his contract.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not really. JT miller signed for 8 mil and people here were crying about his contract.

The issue with Miller was term much like Horvat.

 

[jackjohnson]

The issue with Miller was term much like Horvat.

And Jake will want Term too just like any other player and signing a 29 or 30 year old long term is a big no no here. So why would a team give up big assets for him?? And he is a winger, not even a center.

 

[Gurglesons]

And Jake will want Term too just like any other player and signing a 29 or 30 year old long term is a big no no here. So why would a team give up big assets for him?? And he is a winger, not even a center.

Because he costs 3 million and puts up goals at the same pace as McDavid since 18-19 in the playoffs.

Plus most contenders are usually pretty happy with their 1-2 center depth, but always happy to add a player like Jake who can slot in anywhere in the top nine given his 5v5 production.

 

[jackjohnson]

Because he costs 3 million and puts up goals at the same pace as McDavid since 18-19 in the playoffs.

Plus most contenders are usually pretty happy with their 1-2 center depth, but always happy to add a player like Jake who can slot in anywhere in the top nine given his 5v5 production.

Yeah but he is a UFA and will want 8 mil plus long term. He cost 3 mil for a few months so technically a rental. I wouldn't give up Kuzmenko and a 1st for a rental if Jake can't be signed to a reasonable contract.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah but he is a UFA and will want 8 mil plus long term. He cost 3 mil for a few months so technically a rental. I wouldn't give up Kuzmenko and a 1st for a rental if Jake can't be signed to a reasonable contract.

Neat. We will find a team that’ll pay something else.

 

[66-30-33]

Neat. We will find a team that’ll pay something else.

But but but he’s not worth a lot…he will be dirt cheap because posters don’t want to give up good things.

 

[Gurglesons]

But but but he’s not worth a lot…he will be dirt cheap because posters don’t want to give up good things.

I doubt he returns a ton if he's just a rental... But Kuzmenko and a 1st is probably on the light side.

I'd rather take a shittier pick and a bad contract and get a legitimate prospect back versus a player like Kuzmenko.

 

[66-30-33]

I doubt he returns a ton if he's just a rental... But Kuzmenko and a 1st is probably on the light side.

I'd rather take a shittier pick and a bad contract and get a legitimate prospect back versus a player like Kuzmenko.

That poster said he’s not worth much in the Kuzmenko thread.