Player Discussion Jake DeBrusk VIII

[NDiesel]

Points wise he is 128th over the last three years.

But if you want to measure him on purely goals by all means go for it.

Okay but you're measuring him purely on points.

The posters point is goal scorers get paid, in case you missed it.

 

[goldnblack]

One I'm really surprised at itt is posters I respect complimenting Jake on his hockey IQ.

I don't see it at all. And it's players with high hockey IQ that typically don't go on very long cold spells. Knowing where to be away from the puck, and making constant smart little plays at both ends of the ice is something you notice. You notice it in Marchand. When Wotherspoon makes a smart little play, you notice. Jake is not that. Jake is a north south player with some jets, who can crash the net with the puck on his stick. That is Jake. You will never confuse him with a cerebral player.

 

[UncleRico]

Okay but you're measuring him purely on points.

The posters point is goal scorers get paid, in case you missed it.

You know points include goals right?

 

[NDiesel]

You know points include goals right?

The posters point is goal scorers get paid more money.

Do you think 25 assists is the same as 25 goals?

 

[Ladyfan]

For me...bottom line I trust management to do what is right for the team.

I just don't want a big, long and expensive deal for an inconsistent player.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

The term is the only concern but even then he's been pretty durable through his career. Even if his production would regress not on a team with McDavid, he's still only making 5 million in a league where guys are getting 10-11 million now. It's not like he's some grinder who McDavid turns into a point producer.

Doesn't matter, he's basically untouchable as far as Edmonton is concerned. He's their 3rd most important forward and his versatility being able to play LW and C allows them to pair up 97 and 29 on the same line as they did yesterday vs. Dallas.

Honestly the concept that RNH or Hyman are just products of McDavid is one of the biggest myths in hockey. Both are excellent players and I'd take either player and their current contracts on the Bruins. This idea that playing with McDavid all his wingers need to do is drive to the net with their stick on the ice and the points will pile up is bullshit.

You can't underrate the value of playing with 2 of the 5 best offensive players active in the game (McDavid and Draisaiti). RNH is closer to Charlie Coyle than to an elite Hockey player. Better offense than Coyle, lesser other impact. But basically put him in Boston or anywhere else he is probably a 55 point player. Certainly value for his contract, but still a high end #2, not a #1 center . I also can't imagine Edmonton trading him, because he is one of few people who really like it there, and signed for below market to stay the rest of his career.

 

[UncleRico]

The posters point is goal scorers get paid more money.

Do you think 25 assists is the same as 25 goals?

No but I would say point total is more representative of offensive play than just goals and a more valuable metric.

Also not going to sit here and put much weight into what Debrusk did on the top line with two future hall of famers in bergy and marchand. We saw the effects it has on players like heinen who also put up career numbers playing with them.

He’s been a fringe 2nd liner away from bergy/marchand.

At his very peak he’s a 50 point player when given the most ideal situation possible next to two hall of famers. He’s not going to see an opportunity like that again and nor does he deserve it.

Ideally you want much more than 50 points from a top line LW next to hall of famers.

 

[BruinDust]

I am not disagreeing with you that they are not good players, but lets be honest their numbers are a bit padded playing with Mc David. I also do not think the Bruins should going down that road, Edmonton could have made better use of their cap space for goaltending and defense.

11 million for what RNH and Hyman bring is excellent value. I wanted Hyman here when he was a UFA.

Their cap problems are more about having 6 million tied up to have Campbell playing in the AHL and James Neal to not play for them. 15 million for Nurse, Ceci and Kulak isn't doing them any favors either. They've used their cap space on D and G. They simply have spent that cap space poorly.

 

[bearcountry17]

Points wise he is 128th over the last three years.

But if you want to measure him on purely goals by all means go for it.

Goal scorers get paid. I don’t know about you but I think this teams actually needs more of them not less. The only way I see them replacing Debrusk with equal or less money is Bertuzzi but he is older, just as inconsistent, pretty horrible defensively judging by his POs, and he could choose to go elsewhere.

Who are you replacing Debrusk with that will cost less and produce the same or more?

 

[NDiesel]

No but I would say point total is more representative of offensive play than just goals and a more valuable metric.

Also noy going to sit here and p it much weight I to what Debrusk did on the top line with two future hall of famers in bergy and marchand. We saw the effects it has on players like heinen who also put up career numbers playing with them.

He’s been a fringe 2nd liner away from bergy/marchand.

Well the discussion wasn't really about what better represents offensive play, but instead about what gets you paid more and more goals is going to be more money any day of the week

 

[BruinDust]

You can't underrate the value of playing with 2 of the 5 best offensive players active in the game (McDavid and Draisaiti). RNH is closer to Charlie Coyle than to an elite Hockey player. Better offense than Coyle, lesser other impact. But basically put him in Boston or anywhere else he is probably a 55 point player. Certainly value for his contract, but still a high end #2, not a #1 center . I also can't imagine Edmonton trading him, because he is one of few people who really like it there, and signed for below market to stay the rest of his career.

I don't think he's a top end No.1 C but if he's not elite he's pretty darn close. He's like Krejci to me, underrated because he played along two more prominent stars his whole career (63 and 37). Like I said about him and Hyman, do they get a bump playing with 97 and 29? Sure. But they aren't products of them either. This isn't Mario-to Warren Young or Rob Brown here. There is a chance you may see both play LW for Team Canada, along with Marchand.

RNH just passed I think it was Messier for career Oiler games played. I think he's a Oiler lifer and an important player for them.

As for Debrusk, I think Edmonton is fine without him. Their Top 5 forwards are as strong a Top 5 as you'll find in the NHL. I think if they want to spend 5-6 million it won't be on another winger.

 

[UncleRico]

Well the discussion wasn't really about what better represents offensive play, but instead about what gets you paid more and more goals is going to be more money any day of the week

Ok well he’s 141st in goals this year away from bergy/marchand.

Do you put more weight in what he did with two hall of famers or more weight into what he’s doing now?

 

[NDiesel]

Ok well he’s 141st in goals this year away from bergy/marchand.

Do you put more weight in what he did with two hall of famers or more weight into what he’s doing now?

I put more weight into the larger sample of 3 seasons that we just used than the sample of 53 games you just used.

 

[UncleRico]

Goal scorers get paid. I don’t know about you but I think this teams actually needs more of them not less. The only way I see them replacing Debrusk with equal or less money is Bertuzzi but he is older, just as inconsistent, pretty horrible defensively judging by his POs, and he could choose to go elsewhere.

Who are you replacing Debrusk with that will cost less and produce the same or more?

I’m not asking to replace him. I’m pushing back against the people saying $6m+. Id be happy keeping him at $5m AAV as I said earlier.

Id also be happy letting him walk in the offseason, putting that money towards a #1 C, moving Zacha to wing and calling up lysell next year.

I put more weight into the larger sample of 3 seasons that we just used than the sample of 53 games you just used.

Oh then I’m sure you’d love the even bigger sample size of 4 seasons where he drops down to 101st in goals scored.

Bigger the sample size the better, right?

 

[NDiesel]

Oh then I’m sure you’d love the even bigger sample size of 4 seasons where he drops down to 101st in goals scored.

Bigger the sample size the better, right?

Okay? You're the one who choose the original sample size, so sure keep moving it around if it makes you happy.

 

[Eddie Munson]

To me, this is more than just his recent cold streak. It's a team composition issue sprinkled with salary cap concerns.

I think my main concern is, if Debrusk and his camp want to shuttle this year into the sun and say look at 2021-22 and 2022-23 when deciding our value. That's fine and that's their right to make that argument for their client. But those two years also saw the Bruins with two legit top-6 pivots. Again, many here are making that same argument for Debrusk ie "if only he had a real top-6 center to get him the puck." But the reality is that the environment that made Debrusk successful here 2021-23 is not realistic at this time and investing in him moving forward limits the resources to replicate it.

I agree, if we had Bergeron/Krejci-esque centers on our first and second lines, then Debrusk probaly has a better year and we're debating 6m+ for his next contract. He's not a bad player. I think he is very talented and will likely do well elsewhere. But to pump money into him without getting those pieces in place I think hurts the team in the long term and produces a replicated outcome for Debrusk next year.

There are times you can love the player, love the talent, love the story, but they can still not fit what the team needs now and moving forward.

 

[bearcountry17]

I’m not asking to replace him. I’m pushing back against the people saying $6m+. Id be happy keeping him at $5m AAV as I said earlier.

Id also be happy letting him walk in the offseason, putting that money towards a #1 C, moving Zacha to wing and calling up lysell next year.




Oh then I’m sure you’d love the even bigger sample size of 4 seasons where he drops down to 101st in goals scored.

Bigger the sample size the better, right?

Zacha and his 0 goals in 12 playoff games is gonna be a top winger for us but Debrusk with 4 in 7 just last year and 22 in 73 career isn’t worth 1.25-1.5 million more? Debrusk with 3 25 goal seasons while zacha has just one and he had to play with a future HOFer actually in his prime to achieve?

Also, those 4 year goal total puts debrusk tied for 28th among LWers, 27th at ES. So a low end first liner compared to his peers. Is 5 million the going rate for that? Seems low to me.

 

[BruinDust]

To me, this is more than just his recent cold streak. It's a team composition issue sprinkled with salary cap concerns.

I think my main concern is, if Debrusk and his camp want to shuttle this year into the sun and say look at 2021-22 and 2022-23 when deciding our value. That's fine and that's their right to make that argument for their client. But those two years also saw the Bruins with two legit top-6 pivots. Again, many here are making that same argument for Debrusk ie "if only he had a real top-6 center to get him the puck." But the reality is that the environment that made Debrusk successful here 2021-23 is not realistic at this time and investing in him moving forward limits the resources to replicate it.

He's played roughly 40% of his ice-time this season with at least one of Marchand or Pastrnak or both.

He's playing a sizable portion of his ice with two elite playmakers he has a hard time getting the puck because he's not great at finding soft spots. He rarely shoots from a stationary position. Most of his looks are self-created shooting while in motion.

 

[UncleRico]

Zacha and his 0 goals in 12 playoff games is gonna be a top winger for us but Debrusk with 4 in 7 just last year and 22 in 73 career isn’t worth 1.25-1.5 million more? Debrusk with 3 25 goal seasons while zacha has just one and he had to play with a future HOFer actually in his prime to achieve?

Also, those 4 year goal total puts debrusk tied for 28th among LWers, 27th at ES. So a low end first liner compared to his peers. Is 5 million the going rate for that? Seems low to me.

When it comes down to it I’m not paying him #2 winger money when he’s competing with Morgan geekie for 7th place in points among forwards on the team, all while getting significantly more opportunity.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

have to think the end is near in a b's sweater for debrusk, gryz and forbort.
in june for some, sooner for others.

Yes it’s time to turn the page. Wondering if people will still hold him on high regard when he leaves.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Problem is he’s 76th in goals scoring over the past 3 years(58th at ES) and those goals are what get you paid. The 76th highest paid forward is currently 6.25. With the rising cap and probably more important than his two way play, his PO goals( only 11 LWs and 37 forwards with more playoff goals over the past 5 years) I see his market value probably closer to 6.5.

$6.5M/yr you say?

Bye bye!

 

[Bradely]

I don't think anyone hates him. That would be silly. Every fan I know hopes he gets going. He seems like a nice enough guy, but I want what is best for the Bruins.

Fact is he is not producing...at all. Most players go through a funk, but it (IMO) happens too often and for too many games with Jake. I hope he gets a hat trick tomorrow!

I agree that the choice of my bold word ain't correct. But JDB has gone thru this alot since he joined the Bruins, starting with the Barzal comparaison, even when playing well.

I do beleive though that JDB gets heat based on one aspect, his 25 pts. Being +10 up to now, versatile player and can snipe has value.

 

[Bradely]

For me it’s not hate, I’d like to see him succeed. The issue is he’s an UFA who wants a big contract. You either give it to him, of lose him for nothing. This team cant afford to just let him walk. I’m skeptical of him living up to a big contract.

Donny hockey has a big decision to make.

Fair point.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

I think he's easily the Bruins most disappointing player this year. He looked poised to have a huge year and even take his production to another level but it hasn't happened. Go back 1-year ago I'd never thought we'd be where we are with this player.

He has always been the same guy going back to Red Deere.

I've always advocated for trading him as soon as he's In the middle of a hot streak because he's the most predictable Player in the world -every hot streak is followed by a longer cold one.

I gave Sweeney credit for not traddng him when he demanded a trade because JDB has brought his value up -- but it's past time to move him.

 

[Bradely]

Ok well he’s 141st in goals this year away from bergy/marchand.

Do you put more weight in what he did with two hall of famers or more weight into what he’s doing now?

Bold: I never thought you would bring those words together....