Player Discussion Jack Campbell

[Davo Ikinzom]

We gotta get Smitty Soupy running!

 

[GMofOilers]

Yours is a rare view here that realizes the importance of trying to get Campbell some starts to try to get him rolling. With Skinner we have average goaltending at best and its not getting better. With Campbell we have an unconfident goalie who has been struggling but who has higher end peak play potential. I realize almost the whole board are chanting Skinner starts all day but Skinner is not good enough to get a club on a playoff run. We have to at least try to kickstart Campbell.

Rest for Skinner is important too. His game deflates after multiple starts in a row and playoff series dates are often compressed format with lots of play and also potential for long OT. Skinner has trouble eating huge minutes behind pipes. I don't think he's a goalie we can run with every day.

This is how I see it too.

 

[guymez]

Both our goalies are too low in the crouch rather than having straight back and covering higher. Not sure if this it to compensate for difficulties freezing pucks but it sure makes both goalies look smaller than they are. Both also too backed up in cage rather than challenging on lip of crease. This would appear to be for some reason what is being coached here.

He is still a work in progress but at this point in time Skinner is a better positional goalie than Campbell.

If you watch some of Campbells earlier work (when he was with the Leafs) he almost exclusively relies on reflexes over positioning. I am starting to really question why the team even bothered to target this goalie last summer.

While its obviously important to get the most out of Campbell (he needs starts) unless he makes some drastic changes I dont hold out much hope that he will be a consistently reliable (quality) starting goalie. He doesnt even appear to have the mental toughness required to be a quality starter.

As I posted before this is not how a championship caliber organization crafts their goaltending situation.
Skinner is being asked to do way too much in front of a team that stubbornly believes they can out score their lack of commitment to defence.

 

[snag]

We gotta get Smitty Soupy running!

We just need to buy some Flex Seal!

 

[bucks_oil]

Both our goalies are too low in the crouch rather than having straight back and covering higher. Not sure if this it to compensate for difficulties freezing pucks but it sure makes both goalies look smaller than they are. Both also too backed up in cage rather than challenging on lip of crease. This would appear to be for some reason what is being coached here.

I haven't noticed it as much about Skinner...

But Campbell is faster than he thinks he is. Every cross ice pass he's flailing across, full outstretched leg and body forward, which means he ends up on his stomach every time. Several of those shots end up going back toward the center of the net and through the wide open five.

He needs to add a proper butterfly slide & leg flare back into his repertoire. His sequencing is all wrong:

Controlled is: butterfly slide --> leg flare --> full sprawl only if you know you can't get there any other way
Campbell is: full sprawl --> slow recovery to butterfly.

Even last night there were a couple of times when jammed his lead skate hard into the post in a full sprawl, getting there WAY ahead of the puck. Like I said, the problem with misjudging yourself/the play that way is that you are making more work for yourself... your upper body fades into the ice as you fly across, the top is exposed, the 5-hole is exposed and then you've gotta get back UP into butterfly (imagine the idea of getting UP into butterfly that often, how inefficient!).

A guy like Price would 9.5/10 times push hard into a controlled butterfly (and higher up in the crease, not aiming for the posts) and be ready to jam the breaks on to stay square or flare the lead leg if you are a little late (or trailing leg if a little early). But you can only do that if your push yourself into a controlled butterfly slide (with both knees equally weighted until you need one).

Campbell knows better... he's just up in his head. He thinks he's slow. That's not the problem, he's erratic.

 

[MessierII]

@ VGK (B2B) - Skinner
v LAK - Skinner
v ANA - Campbell
@ LAK - Skinner
@ ANA (B2B) - Campbell
@ SJS (Afternoon game) - Campbell
@ COL - Skinner
v SJS - Campbell

Is my guess on how the goalies finish. Half of the games to Campbell to see if they can get him going and also give Skinner some pre-playoff rest in the last 4 games of the year.

I agree with this. Nice work.

 

[Mr Sakich]

19-9-4, that is Vezina numbers

We are now almost 100% in the playoffs, the seeding doesn't really matter any more as we are going to face equal competition in a 3 series to win the West. It is impossible to predict which team will get the hot goalie, pp , or lucky calls so it doesn't really matter


I say, Campbell starts at least 50% of rest of games to give Skinner rest

 

[guymez]

I haven't noticed it as much about Skinner...

But Campbell is faster than he thinks he is. Every cross ice pass he's flailing across, full outstretched leg and body forward, which means he ends up on his stomach every time. Several of those shots end up going back toward the center of the net and through the wide open five.

He needs to add a proper butterfly slide & leg flare back into his repertoire. His sequencing is all wrong:

Controlled is: butterfly slide --> leg flare --> full sprawl only if you know you can't get there any other way
Campbell is: full sprawl --> slow recovery to butterfly.

Even last night there were a couple of times when jammed his lead skate hard into the post in a full sprawl, getting there WAY ahead of the puck. Like I said, the problem with misjudging yourself/the play that way is that you are making more work for yourself... your upper body fades into the ice as you fly across, the top is exposed, the 5-hole is exposed and then you've gotta get back UP into butterfly (imagine the idea of getting UP into butterfly that often, how inefficient!).

A guy like Price would 9.5/10 times push hard into a controlled butterfly (and higher up in the crease, not aiming for the posts) and be ready to jam the breaks on to stay square or flare the lead leg if you are a little late (or trailing leg if a little early). But you can only do that if your push yourself into a controlled butterfly slide (with both knees equally weighted until you need one).

Campbell knows better... he's just up in his head. He thinks he's slow. That's not the problem, he's erratic.

Good post.
Erratic also describes his rebound control. It doesnt appear like he knows where the rebounds are going either.

Actually...the best description of Campbells overall game at this point in time is 'erratic'.
A serious challenge to play in front of for any team but its even worse for a team that has trouble with their defensive zone coverage.

 

[foshizzle]

He is still a work in progress but at this point in time Skinner is a better positional goalie than Campbell.

If you watch some of Campbells earlier work (when he was with the Leafs) he almost exclusively relies on reflexes over positioning. I am starting to really question why the team even bothered to target this goalie last summer.

While its obviously important to get the most out of Campbell (he needs starts) unless he makes some drastic changes I dont hold out much hope that he will be a consistently reliable (quality) starting goalie. He doesnt even appear to have the mental toughness required to be a quality starter.

As I posted before this is not how a championship caliber organization crafts their goaltending situation.
Skinner is being asked to do way too much in front of a team that stubbornly believes they can out score their lack of commitment to defence.

To answer your question on why they signed Campbell- the answer is Dustin Schwartz- a guy who has been an epic failure here- they rely on this guy for everything. They also don’t have an analytics sept.

Secondly- oilers give up the 4th least amount of high danger chances. Defense isn’t the issue- goaltending is. Furthermore, I think Holland did an excellent job with Ekholm, but failed in not securing a partner for Nurse. Nurse’s numbers away from Ceci are significantly better. Ceci has been a train wreck this year. Even Stauffer stated teams are dumping the puck in his corner.

 

[K1984]

I haven't noticed it as much about Skinner...

But Campbell is faster than he thinks he is. Every cross ice pass he's flailing across, full outstretched leg and body forward, which means he ends up on his stomach every time. Several of those shots end up going back toward the center of the net and through the wide open five.

He needs to add a proper butterfly slide & leg flare back into his repertoire. His sequencing is all wrong:

Controlled is: butterfly slide --> leg flare --> full sprawl only if you know you can't get there any other way
Campbell is: full sprawl --> slow recovery to butterfly.

Even last night there were a couple of times when jammed his lead skate hard into the post in a full sprawl, getting there WAY ahead of the puck. Like I said, the problem with misjudging yourself/the play that way is that you are making more work for yourself... your upper body fades into the ice as you fly across, the top is exposed, the 5-hole is exposed and then you've gotta get back UP into butterfly (imagine the idea of getting UP into butterfly that often, how inefficient!).

A guy like Price would 9.5/10 times push hard into a controlled butterfly (and higher up in the crease, not aiming for the posts) and be ready to jam the breaks on to stay square or flare the lead leg if you are a little late (or trailing leg if a little early). But you can only do that if your push yourself into a controlled butterfly slide (with both knees equally weighted until you need one).

Campbell knows better... he's just up in his head. He thinks he's slow. That's not the problem, he's erratic.

He has very quick feet and can move very quickly through his crease. It's actually a strength of his, but as you did a very good job of outlining all his other inability makes this skill moot.

 

[guymez]

To answer your question on why they signed Campbell- the answer is Dustin Schwartz- a guy who has been an epic failure here- they rely on this guy for everything. They also don’t have an analytics sept.

Secondly- oilers give up the 4th least amount of high danger chances. Defense isn’t the issue- goaltending is. Furthermore, I think Holland did an excellent job with Ekholm, but failed in not securing a partner for Nurse. Nurse’s numbers away from Ceci are significantly better. Ceci has been a train wreck this year. Even Stauffer stated teams are dumping the puck in his corner.

That surprises me...I thought they did have an analytics dept. Perhaps they need to add some expertise to properly utilize it.

That is a questionable stat IMO. That may be true for the bottom 6 but you just have to watch the top 6 in the D zone for a few games to see that its a shit show most of the time. Especially McDavids line.

Regarding Ceci...he has been asked to do too much since the day Holland acquired him. He is not and never will be a top pairing dman but this team puts him in that position because (as you aptly pointed out) Holland didnt prioritize a RHD for Nurse.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I thought he was okay through two periods last night but man I've never felt such an intense feeling of dread whenever the puck goes near our net than I have with this guy. Obviously he's lacking confidence but man it's... what, 7 or 8 straight games of allowing at least 4 goals? And a number of these games are against weaker teams that don't score very much. The Oilers are never going to have a top tier defense but you need your goalie to make a save every now and again. He's good for at least 2 weak ones a game and if we didn't have the best offense in the league we might not even be in a playoff spot.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Yours is a rare view here that realizes the importance of trying to get Campbell some starts to try to get him rolling. With Skinner we have average goaltending at best and its not getting better. With Campbell we have an unconfident goalie who has been struggling but who has higher end peak play potential. I realize almost the whole board are chanting Skinner starts all day but Skinner is not good enough to get a club on a playoff run. We have to at least try to kickstart Campbell.

Rest for Skinner is important too. His game deflates after multiple starts in a row and playoff series dates are often compressed format with lots of play and also potential for long OT. Skinner has trouble eating huge minutes behind pipes. I don't think he's a goalie we can run with every day.

Thanks and yes, Skinner can’t be relied upon to take us through an entire playoff. We will need Campbell to somehow find his A game, if that’s even possible.

I agree with this. Nice work.

I can’t like for about 2 more months so I’ll just say a thank you.

 

[ZJuice]

Still waiting to see news that Campbell hired his own goaltender coach. Perhaps that is not allowed by the team :/

Down with Schwartz!

Both of our goalies are bad when it comes to making low-mid blocker/glove saves. Skinner has been good in many ways but I agree with Drivesaitl that he isn’t good *enough* for the playoffs. The scouting report is probably out and it likely says “shoot low blocker or low glove, oilers goalies have lazy arms”

 

[bucks_oil]

He has very quick feet and can move very quickly through his crease. It's actually a strength of his, but as you did a very good job of outlining all his other inability makes this skill moot.

I'm actually saying his mobility is a strength overplayed. When you are as quick as him, the whole point is to use that advantage to get across the crease with control.

He's overplaying any lateral passes that may or may not lead to a shot. He's already in full sell-out mode before the shot even comes.

 

[Senor Catface]

This is how I see it too.

This is how you see it, but all you do is post one liners intended to inflame and anger others opposed to anything else.

 

[GOilers88]

We gotta get Smitty Soupy running!

Look what happened when Smith got going though

 

[Oilers88]

To answer your question on why they signed Campbell- the answer is Dustin Schwartz- a guy who has been an epic failure here- they rely on this guy for everything. They also don’t have an analytics sept.

Secondly- oilers give up the 4th least amount of high danger chances. Defense isn’t the issue- goaltending is. Furthermore, I think Holland did an excellent job with Ekholm, but failed in not securing a partner for Nurse. Nurse’s numbers away from Ceci are significantly better. Ceci has been a train wreck this year. Even Stauffer stated teams are dumping the puck in his corner.

Honestly, I'm not convinced that anyone in the organization was all that in love with Campbell. The way I read the situation, it seems like they focused on the guy they thought they could get, rather than the best option available.

I've heard Holland speak about the Campbell signing multiple times, and I don't recall him really mentioning anything they specifically liked about this player. He always says that there were three goalies available this summer with credentials as a starter (presumably Campbell, Husso and Kuemper), and the Oilers weren't sure what they would do if they didn't land one. I'm guessing they were still a bit sore from Markstrom picking Calgary, and were really worried about ending up with no one. Hyman, Barrie and Ceci are friends with Campbell from their Leafs days, and have said they spoke to him multiple times about coming to Edmonton.

My guess is that, through our group of former Maple Leafs, the Oilers knew Campbell wanted to come here, and just decided to pull the trigger rather than risk striking out on a goaltender again.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Yuck

 

[bucks_oil]

Honestly, I'm not convinced that anyone in the organization was all that in love with Campbell. The way I read the situation, it seems like they focused on the guy they thought they could get, rather than the best option available.

I've heard Holland speak about the Campbell signing multiple times, and I don't recall him really mentioning anything they specifically liked about this player. He always says that there were three goalies available this summer with credentials as a starter (presumably Campbell, Husso and Kuemper), and the Oilers weren't sure what they would do if they didn't land one. I'm guessing they were still a bit sore from Markstrom picking Calgary, and were really worried about ending up with no one. Hyman, Barrie and Ceci are friends with Campbell from their Leafs days, and have said they spoke to him multiple times about coming to Edmonton.

My guess is that, through our group of former Maple Leafs, the Oilers knew Campbell wanted to come here, and just decided to pull the trigger rather than risk striking out on a goaltender again.

I think you are right... I think Smith was done and the available options were limited. Not having a goalie would have been a massive failure.

The real shame is that we shed Koskinen's $4.5M and we end up in the same situation now, watching the clock on a contract we oopsied on.

In this case I think we need to seriously consider a buy out. I should know this, but I assume there is no in-season buy out option, so we've only got a few more games to sort things out. Presumably the only thing that can save Campbell now is getting hot in the playoffs if Skinner struggles.

 

[tardigrade81]

You guys remember when I said I didn’t want him.

WELL I WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!

Who’s the nut case? HUH?!?!?!?!

WHO IS THE f***ING NUT CASE NOW!!!!!!

 

[VainGretzky]

Campbell's two biggest problems #1 instead of pouncing on rebounds he will just tap it or kick it away creating multiple 2nd chances a good chunk of them end up in the net. # 2 on screenshots he just covers the middle of the net, why he gets beat worse than any other goalie in the league, if he would look over the screens or push them out of the way it would cut down on a lot of them, these two adjustments would cut him down a goal or 2 a game.

 

[guymez]

Stuart Skinner is 24 year old rookie and has played in 58 NHL games. He needed a strong established starter to help groom him into being a starter.
The team needed a strong established starting goaltender as well as there were no internal options to fulfill this role.

Enter Jack Campbell...
Campbell is a 31 year old who has played in 169 games for 4 different NHL teams.

Campbell has played 202 games in the AHL. Total games over 8 AHL seasons.
He has 33 games more AHL experience than he does NHL experience.
He managed a career 0.909 sv% in the AHL.

He has poor fundamentals and tends to beat himself up after poor performances suggesting that he makes it more difficult on himself to get through the low points. Low points which are due in large part to his poor fundamentals.

Apparently Holland thought Jack Campbell would be the right man to fulfill the starting role?
I would sincerely like to know what it was that suggested he be a target for Oilers Management.

What am I missing here? Was Jack Campbell the best available option for the team this past summer?

 

[PuckG]

I haven't noticed it as much about Skinner...

But Campbell is faster than he thinks he is. Every cross ice pass he's flailing across, full outstretched leg and body forward, which means he ends up on his stomach every time. Several of those shots end up going back toward the center of the net and through the wide open five.

He needs to add a proper butterfly slide & leg flare back into his repertoire. His sequencing is all wrong:

Controlled is: butterfly slide --> leg flare --> full sprawl only if you know you can't get there any other way
Campbell is: full sprawl --> slow recovery to butterfly.

Even last night there were a couple of times when jammed his lead skate hard into the post in a full sprawl, getting there WAY ahead of the puck. Like I said, the problem with misjudging yourself/the play that way is that you are making more work for yourself... your upper body fades into the ice as you fly across, the top is exposed, the 5-hole is exposed and then you've gotta get back UP into butterfly (imagine the idea of getting UP into butterfly that often, how inefficient!).

A guy like Price would 9.5/10 times push hard into a controlled butterfly (and higher up in the crease, not aiming for the posts) and be ready to jam the breaks on to stay square or flare the lead leg if you are a little late (or trailing leg if a little early). But you can only do that if your push yourself into a controlled butterfly slide (with both knees equally weighted until you need one).

Campbell knows better... he's just up in his head. He thinks he's slow. That's not the problem, he's erratic.

This provides great insight for those of us have little knowledge of experience with goaltending.

With that being said, is this not something the goalie coach would directly address with him!?

 

[Fourier]

My comment from April 18, 2022....

And even then Jack Campbell is a good example of what concerns me. Which version of such a player would you get. The guy who was looking like a legitimate Vezina candidate or the guy who since January 1 has a .885 sv% and a 3.5 GAA in 23 games.

Goalies are absolutely voodoo. Letting someone like Kane go in hopes that you hit on a goalie seems like a major risk to me.

I am afraid that we may now know the answer!! UGH. As I have always said. Goalies are voodoo