Player Discussion Jack Campbell

[Soundwave]

You have to have a bit of a bite to you to be a no.1 goalie in a Canadian market I think. Like you look at Mike Smith, Dwayne Roloson, Cujo, Fuhr, Ranford, etc. they just got that little bit of an edge it feels like.

Campbell just feels vanilla as f***. Like I just don't think he has the mindset to be a no.1 in market like this long term where the expectation is "take us somewhere in the playoffs". That's where I don't think he's got it. Nice person though, but nah.

Probably a mistake of a signing and if that's the case, the Oilers are in trouble in terms of how much they will have to pay to get rid of this mistake.

 

[brentashton]

The crazy thing about the OT saves is that they don't need to occur if he makes the saves he needs to in regulation. Handing in your homework late is still late even if it's all good.

Ok. Remember this comment when the playoffs begin.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Ok. Remember this comment when the playoffs begin.

But there's no 3-on-3 OT in the playoffs. It's mostly played 5-on-5.

I liken this game to the WCF game 4 vs this same team. The Avs seemed perfectly content to let us win but Mike Smith wasn't having any of it and just couldn't stop a beach ball.

He let in 6 goals and three straight shots, why is he blameless from yesterday's loss?

 

[Soundwave]

Hate to say it but Leafs fans and Dubas were right on this guy.

Nice person but if the level of play he brings, you're just better off going with make shift solutions in net rather than committing long term with this guy.

You can't casually commit massive term contracts to players like this, not in a cap world.

 

[Heavy Dee]

 

[brentashton]

But there's no 3-on-3 OT in the playoffs. It's mostly played 5-on-5.

I liken this game to the WCF game 4 vs this same team. The Avs seemed perfectly content to let us win but Mike Smith wasn't having any of it and just couldn't stop a beach ball.

He let in 6 goals and three straight shots, why is he blameless from yesterday's loss?

Oh right, because not all OT goals scored decide games, but they do 5 on 5, 3 on 3 or with or without a man advantage. All those scenarios do occur and goals do get scores. In fact a lot of play off OT is decided in the first 5 minutes if you want to focus on 5 minute overtime and the playoffs .

If you check my post history I have not said that Jack Campbell is blameless in yesterdays game. He has to own his part in the defensive collapse, as do others.

No sense continuing this discussion, you have a narrative to continue and will move goalposts accordingly.

 

[Mr Sakich]

campbell for markstrom - who says no?

campbell has 4 years at 5, markstrom 3 years at 6 so cap hit / risk is about the same. Maybe a change of scenery gets one of them going

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Oh right, because not all OT goals scored decide games, but they do 5 on 5, 3 on 3 or with or without a man advantage. All those scenarios do occur and goals do get scores. In fact a lot of play off OT is decided in the first 5 minutes if you want to focus on 5 minute overtime and the playoffs .

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If you check my post history I have not said that Jack Campbell is blameless in yesterdays game. He has to own his part in the defensive collapse, as do others.

No sense continuing this discussion, you have a narrative to continue and will move goalposts accordingly.

My point was that if you make the saves you're supposed to make in regulation then overtime doesn't occur.

 

[brentashton]

My point was that if you make the saves you're supposed to make in regulation then overtime doesn't occur.

If you score the goals you should in regulation then OT doesn’t occur. That’s what you’re also suggesting, right? Can‘t be one if not the other. So next time 97, 29, ## (insert number here) doesn’t have a 100% shooting percentage in a game you will rag on them too? You are so far out in this that it’s beyond logic.

ciao.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

If you score the goals you should in regulation then OT doesn’t occur. That’s what you’re also suggesting, right? Can‘t be one if not the other. So next time 97, 29, ## (insert number here) doesn’t have a 100% shooting percentage in a game you will rag on them too? You are so far out in this that it’s beyond logic.

ciao.

There were at least 2 goals in that game that Campbell should've had. #3 and #4. Great that he made saves in overtime, but he was still the second best goalie on the ice in a game the Oilers had complete control of.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

If you score the goals you should in regulation then OT doesn’t occur. That’s what you’re also suggesting, right? Can‘t be one if not the other. So next time 97, 29, ## (insert number here) doesn’t have a 100% shooting percentage in a game you will rag on them too? You are so far out in this that it’s beyond logic.

ciao.

Speaking of shooting percentage, I mentioned this in yesterday's GDT, but I think it deserves mention here.

Jack Campbell has a save percentage of .887 this season with a PDO (on-ice SV% + on-ice SH%) of 1.009. This means that while he's on the ice the team is shooting 15.2%. League average at all strengths is right around 9%. The team shoots 10% with Skinner on ice.

Not really adding anything to what you're saying, but based on this alone I think the criticism he's receiving is likely warranted.

Unrelated: During my research for this I've found out that Skinner has a .931 SV% (!!!!) at evens.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

If you score the goals you should in regulation then OT doesn’t occur. That’s what you’re also suggesting, right? Can‘t be one if not the other. So next time 97, 29, ## (insert number here) doesn’t have a 100% shooting percentage in a game you will rag on them too? You are so far out in this that it’s beyond logic.

ciao.

Has the "quote" function stopped working for you because it's pretty confusing who/what you're responding to for us plebes.

 

[brentashton]

Has the "quote" function stopped working for you because it's pretty confusing who/what you're responding to for us plebes.

Ha, lol, no I don’t think so. It shows up on my screen with the original post and my response. Although this site seemed to have a hiccup earlier today when hit the Alert button today it took me to some kind of historical Commodore 64/COBOL programming screen. I guess you get what you pay for! I could “”out” who I’m chinwagging with if it’s not showing, but I’ll let them own up to their connection in this discussion. I’m sure you understand my hesitation to name them .

 

[JeffSkinner53]

He sucks

 

[Macheteops]

Hate to say it but Leafs fans and Dubas were right on this guy.

Nice person but if the level of play he brings, you're just better off going with make shift solutions in net rather than committing long term with this guy.

You can't casually commit massive term contracts to players like this, not in a cap world.

He isn't good. No one should care if he's a nice person when you have a save percentage of 885 or whatever

60 games into the season and he is trying to figure it out still. People raving about his current stretch but he has a save percentage just above .900 likely during the last month plus

No way would I feel good about him being the number 1 on a contending team going into the playoffs

 

[Drivesaitl]

Quoting save percentage and individual goalie stats is a bit of a red herring at the best of times. But in the case of any goalie that struggles first part of the season the stat can end up being an artifact of that struggle instead of where the goalie might be sitting at currently. In the case of goalies currency is the thing. Most coaches know this and tap the one that is on at any particular time. In the case of Campbell the team is doing better with him in net and Skinner is sick anyway.

In anycase stats associated with goalies can change year to year, month to month, and are not necessarily yardsticks of great use. maybe if one looks at career but even that with reflection on what quality of clubs goalie has played with and how much those clubs tend to allow. The Oilers allow a lot of shots, and chances, generally, and our D play is poor relative to where it should be.

Guaranteed as well the players on the team don't have the same impression of Jack Campbell that some of the expert fans do. Its crystal clear the team plays with more jam with Campbell in net and take more risks and get more goals because they think they can do that with Jack in net. Further the shooting % was mentioned as higher with Campbell in net. That is the case with most goalies that service transition and put rebounds in good spots. 5 times yesterday Campbell expertly rebounded a shot right to his D. hardly anybody notices. Trust me the D notice it.

 

[Soundwave]

Quoting save percentage and individual goalie stats is a bit of a red herring at the best of times. But in the case of any goalie that struggles first part of the season the stat can end up being an artifact of that struggle instead of where the goalie might be sitting at currently. In the case of goalies currency is the thing. Most coaches know this and tap the one that is on at any particular time. In the case of Campbell the team is doing better with him in net and Skinner is sick anyway.

In anycase stats associated with goalies can change year to year, month to month, and are not necessarily yardsticks of great use. maybe if one looks at career but even that with reflection on what quality of clubs goalie has played with and how much those clubs tend to allow. The Oilers allow a lot of shots, and chances, generally, and our D play is poor relative to where it should be.

The bottom line is though he never really has looked like "the guy" who can take this team further than last year. He's a downgrade on Mike Smith.

Not a great way to spend 5 million dollars when the cap space is tight (to put it mildly, the Oilers can't even ice a full lineup right now and this is with Skinner only making 750k).

 

[Drivesaitl]

The bottom line is though he never really has looked like "the guy" who can take this team further than last year. He's a downgrade on Mike Smith.

Not a great way to spend 5 million dollars when the cap space is tight (to put it mildly, the Oilers can't even ice a full lineup right now and this is with Skinner only making 750k).

You've made many comments regarding Campbells attitude, disposition, lack of fight or whatever or not being the guy whatever that means that are completely and totally subjective. They are only whatever views you choose to have of the player. You don't like Campbell, we get it, but he's a player on this team and the starting goalie and he ain't going anywhere.

Its not a given he's a downgrade on Smith and for one to make that comment requires reflection on the top and bottom of Smith game, and Smith being too old to play to anywhere near his peak. Both goalies play well with good defenders that are clearing traffic and boxing out. One can see the difference in Campbell even with Desharnais out of lineup.

 

[Soundwave]

You've made many comments regarding Campbells attitude, disposition, lack of fight or whatever or not being the guy whatever that means that are completely and totally subjective. They are only whatever views you choose to have of the player. You don't like Campbell, we get it, but he's a player on this team and the starting goalie and he ain't going anywhere.

It's backed by his stats which have been shit for a full calendar year now on two different teams, but y'know that apparently doesn't count either.

He is a downgrade on Mike Smith, is a goalie who's not even Mike Smith good for 5 million dollars really wise cap management when you have someone basically as good or better at 750k this year, 2.6 mill next year?

He's not in a position to really insulate Skinner that much anyway, he's never really played one full strong NHL season in his entire career, never won a single playoff round. Last year he started off great and then was terrible for the last 3+ months.

The other scary thing about that is remember that "mental holiday" vacation he had to take last year in Toronto? Like the Leafs literally had to let him basically take 2 weeks off because he was so rattled mentally. I was hoping, really hoping that he'd cleared that, but I don't see it. He seems like a very shaky, mentally fragile goalie to me.

Leafs were correct in letting him go.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's backed by his stats which have been shit for a full calendar year now on two different teams, but y'know that apparently doesn't count either.

He is a downgrade on Mike Smith, is a goalie who's not even Mike Smith good for 5 million dollars really wise cap management when you have someone basically as good or better at 750k this year, 2.6 mill next year?

He's not in a position to really insulate Skinner that much anyway, he's never really played one full strong NHL season in his entire career. Last year he started off great and then was terrible for the last 3+ months.

The other scary thing about that is remember that "mental holiday" vacation he had to take last year in Toronto? Like the Leafs literally had to let him basically take 2 weeks off because he was so rattled mentally. I was hoping, really hoping that he'd cleared that, but I don't see it. He seems like a very shaky, mentally fragile goalie to me.

Leafs were correct in letting him go.

Its all well and good to have opinions. Goaltending is a real stress position. Is Price "mentally fragile" because he's human and suffers human conditions and has needed to take time off. "Two weeks" big deal. Skinner has been out 2 weeks right now (not blaming him) but things happen in life, people get sick, kids get born, life events occur etc.

You don't know Campbells disposition, stop pretending you do in the bolded. Albeit in the latter bolded you hit on the nail that it just seems like it to you. But don't confuse those takes with facts.

 

[Soundwave]

Its all well and good to have opinions. Goaltending is a real stress position. Is Price "mentally fragile" because he's human and suffers human conditions and has needed to take time off. "Two weeks" big deal. Skinner has been out 2 weeks right now (not blaming him) but things happen in life, people get sick, kids get born, life events occur etc.

You don't know Campbells disposition, stop pretending you do in the bolded. Albeit in the latter bolded you hit on the nail that it just seems like it to you. But don't confuse those takes with facts.

I mean mental toughness is part of the game.

Just because you're a nice person doesn't mean your opponents will be nice to you. Colorado wants to kill us every time, you give them half an inch (which we keep doing) and they immediately cut your throat. To beat them you need to have that same attitude on the reverse, I don't know when I look at Campbell and how he plays whether or not he is cut out for this job in this market under this kind of pressure (we have to win in McDrai's window).

I've never really heard of a team just telling a guy to go home and take a break for 2 weeks like that either, like I remember Roloson and Talbot taking a lot of shit in their low points here, but they never asked for a 2 week holiday, I don't think either would even agree to that if it was suggested. Definitely not Roli, he'd probably tell the management to take that suggestion and stick it up their ass.

It is what it is, this is not a line of work for the meek.

 

[Sra1974]

Campbell's not going anywhere. That's a hard reality people need to accept.

It is deeply troubling when your big money/term free agent signing needs to be shutdown essentially immediately in his acquisition for a complete rebuild of his technical and mental game along with equipment. Campbell is emerging as a goalie that won't steal hockey games but the team can't afford to cost them games with critical time weak and leaky goals. It's been a pattern and this team sags a lot when it happens.

Now the big picture. We won't have a true read on Campbell until a very limited uni-dimensional platoon defense is significantly upgraded with top two pairing defenders, faster processing, smart and efficient puck moving type and optimally a quality veteran stabilizing goal suppression type. Current defense is erratic, prone to both unforced own errors and under pressure by aggressive, hard forecheck. The system play does not align with the platoon defense who can't consistently zone exit with stretch bombs that get picked off to create own zone or neutral zone rush opportunities against. Minus a #7 career minor league platoon guy, this d-corp is soft in net coverage, often chase opposing forwards outside of high scoring ice, and not strong enough in cycle breaking and physical defending areas of the ice. They're taught (?) to move out of shooting lanes to let their goalie see the puck and stop the puck instead of blocking shots from range.

The own zone support from forwards waves erratically as the hard effort to backtrack is not applied as it is to chasing scoring opportunities in the fun zone. Both forward and d like to chase opportunities to add more scoring in key situations when shut down mentality and that disciple is what elite teams have learned wins games in the second season.

Until all of these personnel, systems, and systemic issues are worked out, the goaltending position solely can't fully and completely be held to account on a team that still has distance to walk amidst the truly elite teams in this league.

I agree with this analysis completely. The way the D has been constructed and then the way the team has been coached and/or performs is a massive contributor to a goalie struggling.

If I want one improvement from Campbell it is the longer shots, and then the team defence needs to get massively better at the slot and net front gaps that continue to happen.

I can’t imagine Campbell going anywhere this year, and he has shown through the first part of 2023 that he and the team can win games together, the last few weeks though he and th team have shown what they can be when collectively they don’t pay attention to the details and force other teams to play 200ft games.

 

[Spawn]

Waive this bum

 

[La Bamba]

bUt hE's 17-8-4

trade this guy asap if you can. to everyone saying that trading him this early is in bad faith, him playing this f***ing terrible is bad faith

 

[GhostfaceWu]

If you score the goals you should in regulation then OT doesn’t occur. That’s what you’re also suggesting, right? Can‘t be one if not the other. So next time 97, 29, ## (insert number here) doesn’t have a 100% shooting percentage in a game you will rag on them too? You are so far out in this that it’s beyond logic.

ciao.

Can someone please give Campbells uncle here a snickers so he can regain his ability to think.