Player Discussion Jack Campbell

[Drivesaitl]

C'mon you know better. check this out. Even when he won in regulation he was under .900.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]DATE[/TH]
[TH]OPP[/TH]
[TH]RESULT[/TH]
[TH]GS[/TH]
[TH]TOI/G[/TH]
[TH]WINS[/TH]
[TH]L[/TH]
[TH]T[/TH]
[TH]OTL[/TH]
[TH]GA[/TH]
[TH]GA/G[/TH]
[TH]SA[/TH]
[TH]SV[/TH]
[TH]SV%[/TH]
[TH]SO[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sun 2/19[/TD]
[TD]@COL[/TD]
[TD]L
6-5 OT[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]64:09[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]5.61[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD].857[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Fri 2/17[/TD]
[TD]vsNYR[/TD]
[TD]L
5-4 SO[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]64:54[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]3.70[/TD]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD].895[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wed 2/15[/TD]
[TD]vsDET[/TD]
[TD]L
5-4 SO[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]64:46[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]3.71[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD].826[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sat 2/11[/TD]
[TD]@OTT[/TD]
[TD]W
6-3[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]59:43[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3.01[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD].897[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I know better than to just base my opinion on save percentage. Friday and last night were tough nights for goalies against scoring opponents and while playing on a team with inadequate D play and coverage.

The trend you notice here is that every goalie we have here is determined to be shit, no matter who they are. In realtime, on this board even Roloson was thrown under the bus here constantly. We have at worst Average goaltending. People put too much stock in GAA and save% which are TEAM metrics. They don't measure or isolate goalies alone.

 

[Soundwave]

He just isn't it. He is a large downgrade on Smith and 16-17 Talbot ... which is where he kinda needs to be to justify his salary.

Has no mental swagger either ... nice guy, but you never feel comfortable with him in net.

Also yeah the team isn't a defensive juggernaut, but jeezus make a freaking save dude. The Oilers gave him multiple leads yesterday, multiple 2 goal leads and he finds a whole to blow all of them.

Our pro scouting blew it big time on this one, this guy is not as good as even Kuemper at all.

Trade him for Karlsson if possible while you can as a salary balancer.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I know better than to just base my opinion on save percentage. Friday and last night were tough nights for goalies against scoring opponents and while playing on a team with inadequate D play and coverage.

The trend you notice here is that every goalie we have here is determined to be shit, no matter who they are. In realtime, on this board even Roloson was thrown under the bus here constantly. We have at worst Average goaltending. People put too much stock in GAA and save% which are TEAM metrics. They don't measure or isolate goalies alone.

The Avs were dead in the water with little going until Campbell let them back into it. The loss is on him, period.

 

[GMofOilers]

skinner started during a period of time when the offense wasn't hot. The offense has been hot lately which is why Campbell's record looks better. If Campbell had been getting more starts earlier in year and skinner been healthy while offense was hot, the records would look much different. Skinner hasn't been amazing but far better than Campbell unless you are gonna judge goalies by how much the offense scored which is stupid.

Ifs, buts, should of, would of, could of..... Love these kinda posts

 

[Drivesaitl]

skinner started during a period of time when the offense wasn't hot. The offense has been hot lately which is why Campbell's record looks better. If Campbell had been getting more starts earlier in year and skinner been healthy while offense was hot, the records would look much different. Skinner hasn't been amazing but far better than Campbell unless you are gonna judge goalies by how much the offense scored which is stupid.

What isn't noticed is the same dynamic occurred last season because Smith would play puck, transition puck, and help the team get rushes started. Koskinen did not and was horrible playing the puck.

This season its Campbell who plays the puck more and Skinner is awful at it. Campbell also rebounds pucks right to his D basically setting them for breakout. he's very good at this, no one notices... Skinner is bad with the puck and gives up bad rebounds.

But the team is probably less confident with Skinner in net and play closer to home when he is in net. When Campbell is in net the team scores more goals and plays forward more, because they think they can. (they're wrong, not what should occur especially with the lead)

 

[brentashton]

Watching hockey means watching all aspects of the game and seeing how everything is or isn’t meshing together, not just the narrow part that enhances a person’s narrative.

If all one does is look at the goalie, then yes, the goalie will always be the problem.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Watching hockey means watching all aspects of the game and seeing how everything is or isn’t meshing together, not just the narrow part that enhances a person’s narrative.

If all one does is look at the goalie, then yes, the goalie will always be the problem.

I saw our 9.25 million dollar d man fail to tie up the stick on the GTG. I saw our best player get outclassed by their best player (wasn’t even close), and I saw our goalie fail to make one big save.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Avs were dead in the water with little going until Campbell let them back into it. The loss is on him, period.

The Oilers were caught in own zone, AV's had a good cycle going on for extended time and circling puck. Mackinnon takes puck to the dot, takes a good shot through a screen and Compher deflects it close in. You blame Campbell. lol you blame Campbell. jebus.

 

[Soundwave]

Dustin Schwartz saying he watched endless video on both Campbell and Kuemper last summer to give the Oilers pro scouting the skinny on who was better and recommended Campbell overwhelmingly is peak Oilers.

Kuemper - .914 save percentage this year
Campbell - .887 for the season,

Like even if you take away Campbell 5 worst games of the season as a mercy, his numbers still wouldn't even be close to Kuemper's numbers.

This team can't help itself in doing something stupid to offset anything good their management does. Get Hyman? Now blow it on a bad Campbell contract. Sign RNH to a reasonable contract extension? Great, now blow it by overpaying Nurse several million. Have Kane fluke into your lap? Now blow $6+ million on Puljujarvi + Yamamoto to do nothing.

 

[brentashton]

I saw our 9.25 million dollar d man fail to tie up the stick on the GTG. I saw our best player get outclassed by their best player (wasn’t even close), and I saw our goalie fail to make one big save.

Went to the bathroom in the last 45 seconds of OT?

 

[Drivesaitl]

I saw our 9.25 million dollar d man fail to tie up the stick on the GTG. I saw our best player get outclassed by their best player (wasn’t even close), and I saw our goalie fail to make one big save.

I saw a pick in 3 on 3 OT that was somehow not called. Teams play one D usually in OT. When that D is picked, and its allowed to happen, bad things happen. Darnell lost contain BECAUSE of the pick. Try watching hockey a bit more intently and rewatch the plays. I didn't spot it first time either. Watching all the angles the pick was evident, The AV was completely in Darnells path and its a tactic the AV's practice. It was a set pick. I don't blame Darnell for that I blame a coachign staff that doesn't scout that, and officials that allow the pick. AV's should have been given a penalty.

Went to the bathroom in the last 45 seconds of OT?

Yep. What was Keith watching when Campbell saved our bacon when Mackinnon was just banging pucks to the net and Campbell held the fort somehow not allowing that to cross the line. With officials forgetting what a whistle is. They didn't blow the play down until Campbell skated out of crease with the puck in glove. They were just going to let that play go on until AVs scored. Like they did earlier with the puck on the post. Whatever happened to whistling plays dead to protect goalies?

 

[Soundwave]

I don't even give a shit what happened in the OT frankly, never should have gotten there in the first place.

This team can't hold a lead against any good team ever if there's more than 10 minutes left on the clock (and even that), they will try and f*** themselves or the goalie will do something stupid and multiple combinations of both with Coach Summer Camp sucking his thumb on the bench.

They. Cannot. Hold. A. Lead. If there is time on the clock. Not a trait of a legit Cup contender. You wanna get to even a Cup final you have to be able to hold a lead for more than 5 minutes.

With this group I'm honestly impressed if they score a goal and don't give it back within the 5 minute period alone.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Went to the bathroom in the last 45 seconds of OT?

I saw the OT. Campbell made a few good saves... And then got his jock strap lifted to the rafters on the GWG.

Of course, the game was over when it got to OT in the first place. Everyone knew we weren't going to win.

I saw a pick in 3 on 3 OT that was somehow not called. Teams play one D usually in OT. When that D is picked, and its allowed to happen, bad things happen. Darnell lost contain BECAUSE of the pick. Try watching hockey a bit more intently and rewatch the plays. I didn't spot it first time either. Watching all the angles the pick was evident, The AV was completely in Darnells path and its a tactic the AV's practice. It was a set pick. I don't blame Darnell for that I blame a coachign staff that doesn't scout that, and officials that allow the pick. AV's should have been given a penalty.


Yep. What was Keith watching when Campbell saved our bacon when Mackinnon was just banging pucks to the net and Campbell held the fort somehow not allowing that to cross the line. With officials forgetting what a whistle is. They didn't blow the play down until Campbell skated out of crease with the puck in glove. They were just going to let that play go on until AVs scored. Like they did earlier with the puck on the post. Whatever happened to whistling plays dead to protect goalies?

Nurse failed to tie up the stick of the goal scorer on the game TYING goal. AKA the goal that sent the game to overtime in the first place. He got outworked, the Avs tied the game and from that point on loss was inevitable. If his wallet is weighing him down we can put him on LTIR for the remainder of his contract. While I put little stock into what goes in on OT/SO, I don't think Nurse should see the ice in overtime at all.

Oh and there's that fourth goal where the goalie failed to cover the puck. And the third that was an uncontested shot that he was extremely slow on...

The Oilers gave Campbell more than enough run support to win the game. He let them down. No hockey team is ever perfect, and the Avs gave up 5 to the team they dummied in the WCF. This was a statement game, a game that said "Wait until next year."

 

[Zguy370]

I know better than to just base my opinion on save percentage. Friday and last night were tough nights for goalies against scoring opponents and while playing on a team with inadequate D play and coverage.

The trend you notice here is that every goalie we have here is determined to be shit, no matter who they are. In realtime, on this board even Roloson was thrown under the bus here constantly. We have at worst Average goaltending. People put too much stock in GAA and save% which are TEAM metrics. They don't measure or isolate goalies alone.

So basically this season will be another right off, because the opposition was too good with scoring power and our D was bad? But don't worry about Goalie he's been "excellent" recently?

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Dustin Schwartz saying he watched endless video on both Campbell and Kuemper last summer to give the Oilers pro scouting the skinny on who was better and recommended Campbell overwhelmingly is peak Oilers.

Kuemper - .914 save percentage this year
Campbell - .887 for the season,

Like even if you take away Campbell 5 worst games of the season as a mercy, his numbers still wouldn't even be close to Kuemper's numbers.

This team can't help itself in doing something stupid to offset anything good their management does. Get Hyman? Now blow it on a bad Campbell contract. Sign RNH to a reasonable contract extension? Great, now blow it by overpaying Nurse several million. Have Kane fluke into your lap? Now blow $6+ million on Puljujarvi + Yamamoto to do nothing.

I seriously don't understand how Dustin Schwartz is still stealing paychecks after being blatantly incompetent at his job for nearly a decade.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I seriously don't understand how Dustin Schwartz is still stealing paychecks after being blatantly incompetent at his job for nearly a decade.

He was hired because he worked for the Oil Kings. That's the entirety of his resume. Goaltending has sucked here since the days of Roloson and one year of Talbot, and Schwartz completely derailed the best goalie we've had in years.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So basically this season will be another right off, because the opposition was too good with scoring power and our D was bad? But don't worry about Goalie he's been "excellent" recently?

What do you propose. This is our goaltending, this is our cap. It is possible for a team to play better defensively as 5 man units and it is possible to have schemes for opponents that involve even a semblance of trying to shut them down. Mackinnon scored a goal, took a shot on another goal from dangerous area and set up two other goals. he was all over the game because we weren't even looking to contain him or try to prevent him. Like teams do try to do when they face McDrai.

 

[Soundwave]

What do you propose. This is our goaltending, this is our cap. It is possible for a team to play better defensively as 5 man units and it is possible to have schemes for opponents that involve even a semblance of trying to shut them down. Mackinnon scored a goal, took a shot on another goal from dangerous area and set up two other goals. he was all over the game because we weren't even looking to contain him or try to prevent him. Like teams do try to do when they face McDrai.

Well for a start, get rid of Campbell if you can in a Karlsson deal. One guy makes a difference, the other doesn't. The only decent thing about Campbell's deal is his NTC options are limited and I doubt he put any of the California teams on his NTC list.

 

[Zguy370]

Well for a start, get rid of Campbell if you can in a Karlsson deal. One guy makes a difference, the other doesn't. The only decent thing about Campbell's deal is his NTC options are limited and I doubt he put any of the California teams on his NTC list.

This is my thinking as well, do we include Reimer in the deal? look at other available reliable experienced goalies in a 3 team deal. Guarantee is we can't run with Skinner to the promised land, not this yr at least.

 

[Soundwave]

This is my thinking as well, do we include Reimer in the deal? look at other available reliable experienced goalies in a 3 team deal. Guarantee is we can't run with Skinner to the promised land, not this yr at least.

Yes Reimer would be a decent enough fit. Veteran guy, numbers are equal/better than Campbell, if he does well you probably can resign him for cheap (like sub 2 million). Almost certain too that San Jose would retain on his deal because it's expiring as well.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Well for a start, get rid of Campbell if you can in a Karlsson deal. One guy makes a difference, the other doesn't. The only decent thing about Campbell's deal is his NTC options are limited and I doubt he put any of the California teams on his NTC list.

So that we're better off with one inexperienced goalies just finding his way who also has a newborn and who is also sick at the moment? Thats your plan.

"Get rid off" seemed to be the plan of Chiarelli. Just get rid of players, we'll just replace them. That hardly ever works out.

Plus your plan is getting Karlsson, who is just playing well this year further to new options and who is wildly inconsistent from year to year and is an asshole on top of it.

 

[Soundwave]

So that we're better off with one inexperienced goalies just finding his way who also has a newborn and who is also sick at the moment? Thats your plan.

"Get rid off" seemed to be the plan of Chiarelli. Just get rid of players, we'll just replace them. That hardly ever works out.

Plus your plan is getting Karlsson, who is just playing well this year further to new options and who is wildly inconsistent from year to year and is an asshole on top of it.

Oiler fans need to stop with the "GASPPPPP!!!!! That player from team X is totally a massive downgrade from our Grant Fuhr Part Deux!!!!!".

Reimer is as good as Campbell or better and can be the veteran insulator for Skinner for a year or two (how long we planning to keep those training wheels on?) for a fraction of the cost.

Campbell is a significant downgrade on Mike Smith, he can't handle stress or pressure and has general flaws in his game where he gets himself into odd positions for no great reason (like the 4th goal against last night ... like OK we could've been harder on the body there, but what the f*** are you doing there as a goalie? How often do you see a top tier goalie do that?).

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes Reimer would be a decent enough fit. Veteran guy, numbers are equal/better than Campbell, if he does well you probably can resign him for cheap (like sub 2 million). Almost certain too that San Jose would retain on his deal because it's expiring as well.

The kind of nonsense that gets posted here

Reimer is OLD. he's 35 in two weeks. lol and he isnt even playing well this season. Not better than Campbell. Career wise Campbell has slightly better numbers and is 4.5yrs younger.

Oiler fans need to stop with the "GASPPPPP!!!!! That player from team X is totally a massive downgrade from our Grant Fuhr Part Deux!!!!!".

Reimer is as good as Campbell or better and can be the veteran insulator for Skinner for a year or two (how long we planning to keep those training wheels on?) for a fraction of the cost.

Campbell is a significant downgrade on Mike Smith, he can't handle stress or pressure and has general flaws in his game where he gets himself into odd positions for no great reason (like the 4th goal against last night ... like OK we could've been harder on the body there, but what the f*** are you doing there as a goalie? How often do you see a top tier goalie do that?).

Your plan is Reimer. I still can't stop laughing. At best that is change for the sake of change and Campbell is well liked in the room and the team plays for him. You would just change that, just because, to bring in Reimer who isn't ANY improvement.

 

[Soundwave]

The kind of nonsense that gets posted here

Reimer is OLD. he's 35 in two weeks. lol and he isnt even playing well this season. Not better than Campbell. Career wise Campbell has slightly better numbers and is 4.5yrs younger.


Your plan is Reimer. I still can't stop laughing.

So what. 35 is not that old for a goalie and we're not asking him to be the starter.

My plan is to get the f***ing NORRIS TROPHY WINNER for a goalie that has shit numbers, worse than Reimer.

You think Campbell is going to do anything against Colorado in a playoff series? Get your eyes checked. They are going to bend him over with zero vaseline and make him go home crying to his cat.

They didn't even have Makar in yesterday and they still cratered this guy for 6 goals.

If you're being paid 5 million to play here you have to be at least as good as Mike Smith was last year, Campbell can't even manage that. Sorry but not good enough. Use that money elsewhere.

Like lol, you want to keep a turd in net and say no to one of the 5-6 best players on the planet? Seriously this f***ing board sometimes ...

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Campbell's not going anywhere. That's a hard reality people need to accept.

It is deeply troubling when your big money/term free agent signing needs to be shutdown essentially immediately in his acquisition for a complete rebuild of his technical and mental game along with equipment. Campbell is emerging as a goalie that won't steal hockey games but the team can't afford to cost them games with critical time weak and leaky goals. It's been a pattern and this team sags a lot when it happens.

Now the big picture. We won't have a true read on Campbell until a very limited uni-dimensional platoon defense is significantly upgraded with top two pairing defenders, faster processing, smart and efficient puck moving type and optimally a quality veteran stabilizing goal suppression type. Current defense is erratic, prone to both unforced own errors and under pressure by aggressive, hard forecheck. The system play does not align with the platoon defense who can't consistently zone exit with stretch bombs that get picked off to create own zone or neutral zone rush opportunities against. Minus a #7 career minor league platoon guy, this d-corp is soft in net coverage, often chase opposing forwards outside of high scoring ice, and not strong enough in cycle breaking and physical defending areas of the ice. They're taught (?) to move out of shooting lanes to let their goalie see the puck and stop the puck instead of blocking shots from range.

The own zone support from forwards waves erratically as the hard effort to backtrack is not applied as it is to chasing scoring opportunities in the fun zone. Both forward and d like to chase opportunities to add more scoring in key situations when shut down mentality and that disciple is what elite teams have learned wins games in the second season.

Until all of these personnel, systems, and systemic issues are worked out, the goaltending position solely can't fully and completely be held to account on a team that still has distance to walk amidst the truly elite teams in this league.