Tribute Jack Campbell Discussion Part 2

[DraftSchmaft]

I love Flower but he has a long and spotty playoff history. Part of the reason why he isn’t a Golden Knight anymore. That said I think he would be a great addition to the team. Especially if we make his money work from Muzzin’s LTIR and can re-sign him for a couple of years. He’s been having some better starts for Chicago lately and deserves to go to the playoffs again.

At this point of the season and our current struggles, we just have to take the best resume available and then play the odds from there. Leafs have a strong team capable of taking Fleury to that 16 win mark. Campbell is looking like a sweep against Tampa. Pressure will only increase daily from here, so even if Jack strings together 5-6 good games in a row heading into the playoffs, do we trust it? In my opinion our team is too good for MAF to fold in round 1 given his experience. If the spotty play shows up it will probably come later.

 

[Mess]

It started so promising with Jack as he was Leafs MVP in OCT and NOV, but he had never played more than 30 games in a season, so there was some doubt about his ability to transition to a #1 starter and carry a team for 65 games or even as a true tandem for 40+.

Leafs are now often forced to score 4 or more goals on an evening to bail out Leafs subpar goaltending.

I sure hope Jack can get back on track and play like he did early on this year, for Leafs to have serious playoff contender status otherwise it will be ruled as pretender again with an early exit.

 

[hotpaws]

Even if I exaggerated, he still has experience going 20+ games three times and 16 games once. The 16 was a season ago too so he still has stamina left. Any goalie who can get 4 wins in a row against the Avs in the playoffs last season is welcome here. That team is on par with what we're facing this year.

I can't justify going with Campbell over Fleury if Fleury becomes available to us. If MAF folds at least we might have a few round wins before having to worry about him crumbling, but that crumble has less odds than Campbell folding.

Fleury would definitely be an upgrade and who knows maybe he put his meltdown moments behind him

problem is he might get pricey to acquire since i could see a few teams interested in him

 

[Stephen]

At this point of the season and our current struggles, we just have to take the best resume available and then play the odds from there. Leafs have a strong team capable of taking Fleury to that 16 win mark. Campbell is looking like a sweep against Tampa. Pressure will only increase daily from here, so even if Jack strings together 5-6 good games in a row heading into the playoffs, do we trust it? In my opinion our team is too good for MAF to fold in round 1 given his experience. If the spotty play shows up it will probably come later.

Fleury has the ability to catch fire or he could have a meltdown but I would also be inclined to roll the dice and bring on a great veteran in a key position. It’s not like we can get a prime, healthy Carey Price as an alternative. When I see Jack leaking goals against Columbus late in the game (3 goals in the 3rd and OT) I’m just not sure he’ll fare better in a Game 6 or 7 and the Leafs are up against a surging Florida or Tampa.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It started so promising with Jack as he was Leafs MVP in OCT and NOV, but he had never played more than 30 games in a season, so there was some doubt about his ability to transition to a #1 starter and carry a team for 65 games or even as a true tandem for 40+.

Leafs are now often forced to score 4 or more goals on an evening to bail out Leafs subpar goaltending.

I sure hope Jack can get back on track and play like he did early on this year, for Leafs to have serious playoff contender status otherwise it will be ruled as pretender again with an early exit.

Very well stated and exactly why I was one of few on here who said let him earn his contract .. play a full season taking team to playoffs and then take team through a round or two .. then make da fair deal .. if he wins a Cup ok then he earns da big deal which everyone does

 

[KPower]

Whoever we play in round 1 the other team will have better goaltending. That’s the reality

 

[TheTotalPackage]

As weak as Mrazek has been, Keefe has to run him out there a bit more.

In doing so, you would hope that Mrazek can get into a bit of a groove and go on a bit of a run, which would also afford Campbell some much needed rest. Campbell is obviously showing signs that the long season is wearing on him, something he has never endured before as a #1. This is the most he has ever played in a season already, and there are still 30+ games to go.

The last thing the team needs is two goalies who are actually pretty decent being overworked (Campbell) and underworked/undertilized (Mrazek), especially down the stretch and heading into the playoffs.

 

[ACC1224]

As weak as Mrazek has been, Keefe has to run him out there a bit more.

In doing so, you would hope that Mrazek can get into a bit of a groove and go on a bit of a run, which would also afford Campbell some much needed rest. Campbell is obviously showing signs that the long season is wearing on him, something he has never endured before as a #1. This is the most he has ever played in a season already, and there are still 30+ games to go.

The last thing the team needs is two goalies who are actually pretty decent being overworked (Campbell) and underworked/undertilized (Mrazek), especially down the stretch and heading into the playoffs.

Can't see why Campbell would be tired. If this season was tiring, he'll never make it as a starter.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Can't see why Campbell would be tired. If this season was tiring, he'll never make it as a starter.

That's pretty much the point...

 

[ACC1224]

That's pretty much the point...

That he's not tired?

 

[TheTotalPackage]

That he's not tired?

That perhaps he is not cut to be a pure #1 starter who plays 60+ games (as he is trending towards) in the mold of Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck. That there are signs he may be wearing down having never played so much in a season and that he may be better served having Mrazek grab an extra start here and there.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We don't need a tender who pulls miracle 10 bellers every game but we do need a tender who makes ALL da makable saves .. last night Laine's 2 bullets and da breakaway goal ok they are fine we could live with those goals if he makes 1 save amazing if not then fine team can overcome them .. but da other goal was complete house league .. and you can't just drop your head between your legs like he did .. it just drops bench morale down to a massive low .. we lost a game last night because of tending .. now if its 1 game here and there OK that's fine but it is starting to become habit now

 

[ACC1224]

That perhaps he is not cut to be a pure #1 starter who plays 60+ games (as he is trending towards) in the mold of Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck. That there are signs he may be wearing down having never played so much in a season and that he may be better served having Mrazek grab an extra start here and there.

Sure I guess he may be tired. I don't see why that would be the case though.

 

[Stephen]

That perhaps he is not cut to be a pure #1 starter who plays 60+ games (as he is trending towards) in the mold of Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck. That there are signs he may be wearing down having never played so much in a season and that he may be better served having Mrazek grab an extra start here and there.

As a franchise I think you just want a starting goalie who is a gamer who can give you predictable A Game and B Game starts and plan a season accordingly. You can’t really have a guy who has a mix of high maintenance confidence issues and really specific load management requirements. Those would be strikes against Jack if we talk about whether or not he should be kept. We’ve gotten a lot of bonus mileage out of a backup salary at this point but do you double down? Ehh I don’t know.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

As a franchise I think you just want a starting goalie who is a gamer who can give you predictable A Game and B Game starts and plan a season accordingly. You can’t really have a guy who has a mix of high maintenance confidence issues and really specific load management requirements. Those would be strikes against Jack if we talk about whether or not he should be kept. We’ve gotten a lot of bonus mileage out of a backup salary at this point but do you double down? Ehh I don’t know.

I agree. But I'd say the smarter thing would be to have Campbell and Mrazek play a 50/32 split as opposed to a 60/22 split. It's not like Mrazek hasn't been exposed to a 1B situation before where he has played half the season's games. And the reason the Leafs signed him to the length and value of contract was to spell such relief for Campbell.

Rightly or wrongly, we just don't know if Campbell can handle the heavy workload. And his play of late and the questioning of such play affirms that questioning many have been doing around here during that time.

 

[Stephen]

I agree. But I'd say the smarter thing would be to have Campbell and Mrazek play a 50/32 split as opposed to a 60/22 split. It's not like Mrazek hasn't been exposed to a 1B situation before where he has played half the season's games. And the reason the Leafs signed him to the length and value of contract was to spell such relief for Campbell.

Rightly or wrongly, we just don't know if Campbell can handle the heavy workload. And his play of late and the questioning of such play affirms that questioning many have been doing around here during that time.

Next season, I wouldn’t be totally surprised if we didn’t part ways with both Campbell and Mrazek and either invest in a true number one UFA and a cheaper back up, changing the whole situation back there.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Next season, I wouldn’t be totally surprised if we didn’t part ways with both Campbell and Mrazek and either invest in a true number one UFA and a cheaper back up, changing the whole situation back there.

I'd rather have a new GM navigate the changes needed

 

[zeke]

Goalies are allowed to slump.

Jack has a .920sv% and on pace to play 60gms. That would be a helluva season.

I'm betting he gets his game back soon enough - he's a had a couple good ones too lately.

 

[Stephen]

Goalies are allowed to slump.

Jack has a .920sv% and on pace to play 60gms. That would be a helluva season.

I'm betting he gets his game back soon enough - he's a had a couple good ones too lately.

InGoal magazine or Jamie McLennan (forget which) brought up a good point a couple of months ago. Which is if he started the first half of the season with a .940 and finishes with a .920 overall, it will mean he plays at a .900 level for the second half. So it’s a good overall stats line but also a pretty rough landing.

Obviously we don’t know if this is a trend or he can pick it up again but something to think about re- overall numbers.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

InGoal magazine or Jamie McLennan (forget which) brought up a good point a couple of months ago. Which is if he started the first half of the season with a .940 and finishes with a .920 overall, it will mean he plays at a .900 level for the second half. So it’s a good overall stats line but also a pretty rough landing.

Obviously we don’t know if this is a trend or he can pick it up again but something to think about re- overall numbers.

I could care less about his season stats .. it comes down to 2 things .. 1. can he play as a #1 for an entire season and get us to playoffs? 2. can he be a money tender and get us through a round or two in 2022 playoffs? .. his journey is still to be decided .. and his journey is Dubie's journey too .. they are tied at da hip .. I hope so but frankly after that game 7 house league goal against Habs I am not a believer

 

[zeke]

InGoal magazine or Jamie McLennan (forget which) brought up a good point a couple of months ago. Which is if he started the first half of the season with a .940 and finishes with a .920 overall, it will mean he plays at a .900 level for the second half. So it’s a good overall stats line but also a pretty rough landing.

Obviously we don’t know if this is a trend or he can pick it up again but something to think about re- overall numbers.

true, but you have to be careful of falling into a trap of looking at arbitrary splits.

For example last year he was at .944 over his first 10gms, then at .900 the rest of the season (12gms) for a .921 overall....but then posted a .934 in the playoffs.

Campbell has a .920 this year (37gms), a .920 as a Leaf (65gms), and a .918 career (123gms). Nothing is for sure, and there's always the chance a guy just gets exposed the more games he plays (though tbh i don't think this recent play is him having any particular weakness exposed - he's sort of just off in general, with goals going in any number of ways), but his track record is starting to look fairly consistent at this point.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

true, but you have to be careful of falling into a trap of looking at arbitrary splits.

For example last year he was at .944 over his first 10gms, then at .900 the rest of the season (12gms) for a .921 overall....but then posted a .934 in the playoffs.

Campbell has a .920 this year (37gms), a .920 as a Leaf (65gms), and a .918 career (123gms). Nothing is for sure, and there's always the chance a guy just gets exposed the more games he plays (though tbh i don't think this recent play is him having any particular weakness exposed - he's sort of just off in general, with goals going in any number of ways), but his track record is starting to look fairly consistent at this point.

Well he is down to a .920 season, so it is time for him to go .920 the rest of the way.

If he does that, we are winning 90% of the games we are in right now based on how the rest of the team is playing.

 

[Stephen]

true, but you have to be careful of falling into a trap of looking at arbitrary splits.

For example last year he was at .944 over his first 10gms, then at .900 the rest of the season (12gms) for a .921 overall....but then posted a .934 in the playoffs.

Campbell has a .920 this year (37gms), a .920 as a Leaf (65gms), and a .918 career (123gms). Nothing is for sure, and there's always the chance a guy just gets exposed the more games he plays (though tbh i don't think this recent play is him having any particular weakness exposed - he's sort of just off in general, with goals going in any number of ways), but his track record is starting to look fairly consistent at this point.

Yeah, long story short he just needs to find his game and get back to a standard he was at earlier in the season. If he can’t it just opens up a lot of messy contingencies and discussion points in the short, medium and long term.

 

[zeke]

Well he is down to a .920 season, so it is time for him to go .920 the rest of the way.

If he does that, we are winning 90% of the games we are in right now based on how the rest of the team is playing.

I think the team was playing well for a while, but aren't right now - basically since the all-star break they've been very mediocre overall.

before that - between the january restart and the allstar break - they were playing great hockey so even with the iffy goaltending they kept on winning.

but since the break they just haven't been very good - not awful, but very, very mediocre - and then you add bad goaltending to mediocre team play and the losses start piling up.

 

[hotpaws]

Well he is down to a .920 season, so it is time for him to go .920 the rest of the way.

If he does that, we are winning 90% of the games we are in right now based on how the rest of the team is playing.

you actually believe we can win 29 out of our last 32 games with avg goaltending ? lol