since 2005 when overtime and loser points were awarded the point totals can no longer be compared, it's apples to oranges. They're having a great season, no question, but I don't know if it is their best season ever. Jack Campbell is in a slump and he'll get out of it just like all great players do.
Tribute Jack Campbell Discussion Part 2
- Thread starter Stephen
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If we deducted the extra point for OT wins it would be a fair comparison. The loser point is the same as a a point for a tie in the past. So its deduction of 4 so far this season.
Mess
Global Moderator
That's not saying much, as the Leafs finished dead last in the NHL in 2015-16 and the following year 2016-17 made the playoffs with 95 points.
If the Leafs have a 100 point season in 2021-22 it would be a mere +5 point improvement from 5 years ago and they already had 105 and 100 point season between then and now.
Really doesn't seem like a lot of progress is being made year to year, and this year with goaltending ranked < .900 sv% since Dec 1st and ranked 31st overall , seems to be among the shakiest of all of them.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
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Your shaky bubble team is on track for 112pts.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Ufa market is pretty slim. Would likely have to be a trade if they don't believe in Campbell by the offseason
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 83,109
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Could be. Depending on your opinion of these guys, they are all headed towards UFA status and could present anything from starter to platoon or backup roles:
Husso
Fleury
Kuemper
Korpisalo
Francouz
I also think guys like Binnington and others who have had rough seasons might also lose their jobs, so I think the annual carousel will happen again if we need to make wholesale changes.
Jmo89
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2010
- 4,666
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I agree you need to adjust for the loser point, but when your team hasn't won a cup since 1967 you've gotta enjoy small achievements.
Also, I'm not so sure Campbell is a great player.
steam whistle
Registered User
your guys keep barking at goalie, and forget about his salary cap.
if I were Jack, I would play same as our "C" ------CRAP.
if I were Jack, I would play same as our "C" ------CRAP.
Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
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To be fair there are usually 10-ish teams that are 100 point teams each year and there are normally around 5 teams that are 105 points or better. It's not easy to improve on a 105 point season. Once you hit that 105 points plateau you are more likely to go down than up. If the Leafs get 100 points or 110 points, it really matters little IMO.
I think one could argue to hit 105 this year would be harder than the Leafs 105 in 2017-18, no one was really expecting the Leafs to play that well in 2017-18. This year everyone knows the Leafs are one of the best in the League and probably play them harder. I don't know about you but when I played I always took it up a notch or two for the better teams, I was more focused and played with more purpose because I wanted to kick their assess and I knew that a mistake might end up in a goal against.
Mess
Global Moderator
I agree.
I believe for most Leaf fans the number of regulation season points matters very little if its 100 or 110 as it all about the playoffs and the results in them this year. We don't remember much about those previous 100+ point seasons only which round and who we lost to that year to end the Leafs season.
My point was more about little to no progress made over the last 4 years to move the Leafs forward when it matters most, and simply pointing to current regular season pacing doesn't mean Leafs are on any current path to ultimate success simply by doing what as you point out a lot of teams reach in the regular season.
Now with sub par goaltending since Dec 1st, (sub .900 sv%) and Muzzin a top 3 Dman injured long term and Leafs losing 5 of their last 7 games things are not looking all that promising presently and valid reasons for concerns beyond regular season points pacing.. IMO
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ULF_55
Moderator
Campbell has had seasons over .920, he has never played this many games.
Last year he played 7 playoff games and ended up with a .934 and a 1.81.
Right now he isn't getting the job done, but he isn't alone in that respect.
Seems most good chances are going in, and the defense can take some blame but the other night it was Jack.
Last year he played 7 playoff games and ended up with a .934 and a 1.81.
Right now he isn't getting the job done, but he isn't alone in that respect.
Seems most good chances are going in, and the defense can take some blame but the other night it was Jack.
This is not true. Dubas has only traded one 1st round pick in his entire time as GM for a rental, and even that was largely due to the abnormalities of the season and draft. He has never traded a 1st round pick to fix a cap problem he created.
Fleury is not an upgrade, and not worth a 1st.
That's a horrible, horrible deal.
This is also not true. Dubas dealt a conditional 3rd in 2023 that can instead turn into a 2nd in 2025, primarily for Lyubushkin.
ULF_55
Moderator
Actually, teams have received points for ties for many decades.
However, perhaps what should be eliminated is the extra point for winning in overtime/shootout as they are the additional point be awarded.
Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
- 12,349
- 4,559
I agree.
I believe for most Leaf fans the number of regulation season points matters very little if its 100 or 110 as it all about the playoffs and the results in them this year. We don't remember much about those previous 100+ point seasons only which round and who we lost to that year to end the Leafs season.
My point was more about little to no progress made over the last 4 years to move the Leafs forward when it matters most, and simply pointing to current regular season pacing doesn't mean Leafs are on any current path to ultimate success simply by doing what as you point out a lot of teams reach in the regular season.
Now with sub par goaltending since Dec 1st, (sub .900 sv%) and Muzzin a top 3 Dman injured long term and Leafs losing 5 of their last 7 games things are not looking all that promising presently and valid reasons for concerns beyond regular season points pacing.. IMO
I tend to agree with your post.
Is the team actually playing more often with consistency of effort and execution this year than in previous years? I'm not sure points are a good measurement, it tells you that you won more but did you win because you got into a game of pond hockey and last shot wins or did you win because you controlled the game and dictated play?
I think back to the NJ Devils in their Championship years as the pinnacle of a team that controls the game and dictates play. IMO the Leafs style is more akin to getting shot out of a cannon, build a big lead and hopefully hold on for a win. I don't see the Leafs style as one that allows us to control the game, there is a reason why Leaf fans are nervous with a 3 goal lead. We dictate play by scoring early and often but we don't control play, even though our possession numbers are among the best in the league, I don't think we truly control play.
makbeer
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2006
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This is a great breakdown of thatcher demko and his crease movement. Especially the second half of the video when they go into how he integrates with the post. It is one of the areas of jack’s game I don’t like when we talk about consistency of movement. Ian Clark is one of the top 2 or 3 goalie coaches in the world so that is great for demko’s development,
makbeer
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2006
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that playoff series he also shoulders blame for the collapse as he was only able to give us 4 good games before turning into the goalie we see now, at sub .900 over the last 3 deciding games.
that series is exactly the problem with Campbell. He’s Jackyll and Hyde.
I'm not worried about Campbell at all. Is this his first real slump with us? He's been terrific for a whole lot of games, all this is doing is bringing the price down.
Goalies are voodoo. I understand that people are quick to turn, but like, give him one slump before chucking him in the dumpster.
Goalies are voodoo. I understand that people are quick to turn, but like, give him one slump before chucking him in the dumpster.
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Freddie Anderson was the problem in years past and now all of a sudden you guys were full of it as he's the star on hurricanes
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Goalie coach huh...you worry me when you believe this stuff. How many experts are hired to be coaches...Chris fkin terreri was goalie coach for brodeur..terreri was below avg nhl coach. Based on what u said..I guess junior hockey coaches should be nhl coaches
.they were involved with development weren't they
TheBeastCoast
Registered User
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
dubplatepressure
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2007
- 16,025
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hea been f***ing awful since Jan 1. Last in the league. You can’t rely on that when it takes place over long stretches.
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
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He needs to earn his job back at this point.
Mrazek should be the starter, and even if he has a bad game, he should be back in.
Campbell has lost his job.
Vasilevskiy sucked from October to December two years ago or so. Hellebucyk had a terrible year and was fine. Carey Price's career is anything but consistent. Do not worry man, the longer it goes on the more concerned I get. I'm watching tonight and shaking my head, I'm not going to hang onto a player until the end.
