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Tribute Jack Campbell Discussion Part 2

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I'm not sure what people are watching if you think this is a goalie whose going to suddenly be a no.1 for a stanley cup contender. He has transformed to a mediocre goalie. This is no longer remotely close to a slump or bad stretch. Maybe he normalizes to a .905-.91 goalie given he has a good team in front of him but that's not good enough. We don't have Floridas offence.
 
Saw it coming. Still sucks to see it as a fan of the Leafs.

My brain knows there is a reason Jack is a career backup and my eyes can see all the holes in his game.

Goalie coaches know the problem with having holes in your style is that you are gonna hit stretches where the pucks find them.

A technically sound goalie falls back to technique when they are a bit off their game, which makes the floor higher.

And the bottom line is that this team has cup ambitions, and Campbell is a huge roll of the dice when it comes to the playoffs. So is Mrazek.

Dubas did a lot of good things but praying for a ton of luck in net was a bad idea and could undo all his effort elsewhere on the roster.
 
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Shooter2x said:
I'm not sure what people are watching if you think this is a goalie whose going to suddenly be a no.1 for a stanley cup contender. He has transformed to a mediocre goalie. This is no longer remotely close to a slump or bad stretch. Maybe he normalizes to a .905-.91 goalie given he has a good team in front of him but that's not good enough. We don't have Floridas offence.
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One thing goalie coaches look for is if a goalie is able to repeat the same movement in a consistent way. For example: are you always entering the post consistently when you want to transition from standing to RVH. Doing this consistently means that you can trust his position/movement to be reliable and free of 'holes' - as holes = goals. Usually you don't want to change the style of the goalie, but you want them to be able to execute that style as consistently as possible.

I notice Jack struggles in this area, as he tends to attack similar situations in wildly different ways, and seems that his movement/actions are not repeated. This feels like a goalie who should be inconsistent as their success depends.

This could come down to coach or player.
 
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makbeer said:
One thing goalie coaches look for is if a goalie is able to repeat the same movement in a consistent way. For example: are you always entering the post consistently when you want to transition from standing to RVH. Doing this consistently means that you can trust his position/movement to be reliable and free of 'holes' - as holes = goals. Usually you don't want to change the style of the goalie, but you want them to be able to execute that style as consistently as possible.

I notice Jack struggles in this area, as he tends to attack similar situations in wildly different ways, and seems that his movement/actions are not repeated. This feels like a goalie who should be inconsistent as their success depends.

This could come down to coach or player.
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He and Mrazek both seem to have a bit of that old school acrobat reflex goalie mentality as opposed to an organized blocking style. When they struggle I think it creates a level of chaos that's hard to defend in front of instead of when you have a goalie with a more predictable style, types of rebounds, etc.
 
Stephen said:
He and Mrazek both seem to have a bit of that old school acrobat reflex goalie mentality as opposed to an organized blocking style. When they struggle I think it creates a level of chaos that's hard to defend in front of instead of when you have a goalie with a more predictable style, types of rebounds, etc.
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I think Campbell needs glasses and Mrazek needs a GPS located so he can find where the net is
 
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Stephen said:
He and Mrazek both seem to have a bit of that old school acrobat reflex goalie mentality as opposed to an organized blocking style. When they struggle I think it creates a level of chaos that's hard to defend in front of instead of when you have a goalie with a more predictable style, types of rebounds, etc.
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Yup Campbell and Mrazek are basically the same goalie. Both a bit old school, both with a history of injury, both have never proved they can carry the load for an extended period of time. Campbell seems like the better goalie now, Mrazek has had his own 920 stretches as well but ultimately not sustainable and hence teams keep moving off him.
 
Racer88 said:
I think Campbell needs glasses and Mrazek needs a GPS located so he can find where the net is
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They need to dial his head space back to when he was challenging for more ice time and usurping Freddie Andersen. Put him back into the headspace of being the challenger, fighting to make a name for himself, focusing on every start as opposed to playing like a nervous front runner.

Mrazek, I dunno what made him work on previous stops. The guy's an enigma.
 
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makbeer said:
Yup Campbell and Mrazek are basically the same goalie. Both a bit old school, both with a history of injury, both have never proved they can carry the load for an extended period of time. Campbell seems like the better goalie now, Mrazek has had his own 920 stretches as well but ultimately not sustainable and hence teams keep moving off him.
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I kind of put Campbell on the Curtis Joseph end for liking to go down and contorting his body in weird shapes along the ice. It's not a normal butterfly, a bit of an improvised paddle down, but like you say, it's not a repeated set of movements on similar shots. Mrazek, I dunno. He's almost like Grant Fuhr territory of show man like he'll love to make a glove save, or dive out to make a low percentage play on the puck. Inappropriately aggressive, all feeling, all instinct.

Fun to watch that stuff growing up but looks so alien nowadays.
 
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Fred used to win wild games like this all the time when our defence was all over the place, and there's many here who still don't trust him to be our playoff goalie. Interesting to see how this Campbell situation plays out with management since it doesn't look like Campbell will be able to touch Fred level impact here.

North division regular season champ might end up Campbells only legacy. Time is running out to fix himself. It got worse from the last time we said he needs to figure it out, which was worse than the last last time we said he's gotta figure it out, which was worse than the last last last time........
 
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It has been 30 years since this franchise has developed a starting goaltender. That is pathetic. Forced to rely on all these guys from free agency or trades that never get the job done. That’s fine when the people in charge can actually recognize good goaltending like CuJo or Belfour, but since ‘04 not one single GM we’ve had has been able to find a guy capable of winning a series. No goalie has gotten us anywhere close to a Stanley Cup. Andersen was great in the regular season but holy f*** did he know how to shit the bed come Springtime. Of course watch him now turn into George Vezina come playoff time for the Canes.
 
Atomos2 said:
Campbell's price tag should go down to Mrazek's. Probably lower. A full season has exposed the goalie he is. Which is not a good one.
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Im about 51-49 thinking we might want to look into letting Campbell walk and then also disposing of Mrazek. Similar to Carolina making a two goalie switch. Ville Husso might a real get but the competition will be stiff. Or you get a different platoon situation. Still risky.

Not to be too quick to throw out the whole back end, but with Muzzin running into serious injury and decline, Brodie struggling lately, Holl whatever your feelings are, I’m actually wondering if might see a bigger defensive and goaltending retool where we LTIR Muzzin, trade Brodie and just go into free agency with a lot of cap space to maneuver. Buy those new pieces at flat cap prices. There’s just so many pieces with question marks and maybe we need a gut reno back there.
 
Stephen said:
Im about 51-49 thinking we might want to look into letting Campbell walk and then also disposing of Mrazek. Similar to Carolina making a two goalie switch. Ville Husso might a real get but the competition will be stiff. Or you get a different platoon situation. Still risky.

Not to be too quick to throw out the whole back end, but with Muzzin running into serious injury and decline, Brodie struggling lately, Holl whatever your feelings are, I’m actually wondering if might see a bigger defensive and goaltending retool where we LTIR Muzzin, trade Brodie and just go into free agency with a lot of cap space to maneuver. Buy those new pieces at flat cap prices. There’s just so many pieces with question marks and maybe we need a gut reno back there.
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I don't disagree.

However, I don't see any scenario where that happens within the next 4 weeks - to be fair to Brodie, him and Rielly have been much better than worse this season, and with Mo locked up and playing with the best D-partner he's had in the NHL, I'm not sure moving Brodie is the right move.

I'd be very surprised if they moved off Campbell as well. I agree with just waiting and seeing where this goes - either Campbell bounces back, and has a decent playoffs, and you have your starter, or he spectacularly flames out and the decision makes itself for you come the offseason. Might as well utilize the time. I think Campbell's struggles are more related to the lack of consistent starts through December/January due to Covid, and more recently because they're pushing Mrazek for more starts. I think that once he gets that rhythm back, he will be much better.
 
Stephen said:
Im about 51-49 thinking we might want to look into letting Campbell walk and then also disposing of Mrazek. Similar to Carolina making a two goalie switch. Ville Husso might a real get but the competition will be stiff. Or you get a different platoon situation. Still risky.

Not to be too quick to throw out the whole back end, but with Muzzin running into serious injury and decline, Brodie struggling lately, Holl whatever your feelings are, I’m actually wondering if might see a bigger defensive and goaltending retool where we LTIR Muzzin, trade Brodie and just go into free agency with a lot of cap space to maneuver. Buy those new pieces at flat cap prices. There’s just so many pieces with question marks and maybe we need a gut reno back there.
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Muzzin's decline (partly due to injury) is a big loss as he's a great playoff D and I hope he comes back in time but I wouldnt be too quick to start gutting a back end when the Leafs have some of the best defensive numbers in the game. (unless the reason for the D numbers is more systemic than anything)

You are right that Brodie has been somewhat worse than last year but the Holl nonsense going on has been a bit embarrassing with him having as good or better numbers (including goal differential) as any 4 in the league since November. With Muzzin out, we need him in the lineup this post-season IMO.

I think shedding Dermott+ for a harder nosed Dman for the playoff run probably makes the most sense as I really liked what I saw from the Sandin pairing.
 
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Stephen said:
They need to dial his head space back to when he was challenging for more ice time and usurping Freddie Andersen. Put him back into the headspace of being the challenger, fighting to make a name for himself, focusing on every start as opposed to playing like a nervous front runner.

Mrazek, I dunno what made him work on previous stops. The guy's an enigma.
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Honestly, at this point, you might as well just commit to giving him the next 3 starts. It's not like he can be that much worse than Campbell has been lately, and part of the problem might be that between injuries and just riding Campbell, Mrazek has barely seen much action. Obviously, this is no guarantee. If he falters, he falters and then you really start worrying. But the whole point of a tandem should be, at least in theory, that you have another goalie you can turn to if the current one is struggling. Even if Mrazek has had struggles of his own, he's had a hard enough time finding playing time this year and you might as well hope repetition helps.

As for Jack, I honestly think a decent junk of it is mental. As you said, he looks so nervous that it just seems like he's manifesting the mistakes he's afraid of making into reality. Like forget the soft goals, that puck handling mishap in the 1st was just ugly. It's like even Campbell just doesn't believe in Campbell.
 
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Stephen said:
I kind of put Campbell on the Curtis Joseph end for liking to go down and contorting his body in weird shapes along the ice. It's not a normal butterfly, a bit of an improvised paddle down, but like you say, it's not a repeated set of movements on similar shots. Mrazek, I dunno. He's almost like Grant Fuhr territory of show man like he'll love to make a glove save, or dive out to make a low percentage play on the puck. Inappropriately aggressive, all feeling, all instinct.

Fun to watch that stuff growing up but looks so alien nowadays.
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Haha yeah. Potvin was my favourite goalie growing up. I literally became a goalie because of his gear. It was that shallow. :P
 
Stephen said:
Same here. Potvin’s pad set is the only reason why I seriously got into hockey as a kid.
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I focused on Brad Marsh while being a kid. Not because of talent or any sane reason but because he played on a team my dad watched and he was so tough he didn’t need to wear a helmet. I was a really dumb kid. Lol.
 
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Campbell and Mrazek don't play the same style at all, what are you all on about? When Campbell was on fire through pretty much all of 2021 his positioning was nearly flawless and he did an excellent job tracking the puck through screens and across the ice. He also was moving fairly conservatively rather than flopping around all over the place. The difference between Campbell now and then is that he's just plain missing pucks that he'd catch before. To a lesser extent he's also not tracking the play as well, making subtle positioning mistakes and giving out juicier rebounds.

Mrazek, on the other hand, keeps flying around the crease and putting himself out of position for no discernible reason. It looks dramatic when it works but embarrassing when it doesn't. I'd say his style is closer to a polar opposite of Campbell than similar to it.
 
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